My "Fine Art" entry disqualified

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

03/13/2010 08:24:59 AM · #78

Well I'm new here and have no foundation on which to speak, but I found it to be a rather silly challenge in the regard that it requests fine art, which has no clear definition, but then set rules to define it. The house rules are the rules, so that's that. But the DQing is disappointing. And to be honest for someone to request a DQ, as has been mentioned on this thread, it requires a special kind of analness.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

03/13/2010 08:48:56 AM · #79

Originally posted by bohemka:

Actually you would be mistaken.

While it may be true that fine art per say has no clear definition, this factor ought not be misconstrued with the fact that there are rules governing post processing and the like. While I do not necessarily disagree with what you are advancing, that is not what transpired in this instance, hence the DQ's.

We have all learned something here, and I remain confident that the creators of this challenge will address the concerns expressed here and take whatever remedial actions they deem necessary.

Oh, and in passing, noticing a transgression and reporting it is not viewed by all as being "a special kind of analness" but rather a realization that some have, either willingly or inadvertently strayed from excepted standards and need to be reminded of the error of their ways.

Ray

PennyStreet

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

03/13/2010 08:56:43 AM · #80

Originally posted by bohemka:

You're bold to say so, but it does take all kinds.
I would never ask for a qualification on an image nor would I ever give out a "one" vote but it doesn't matter what I think - everyone here is entitled to do what works for them (within the rules obviously). Unfortunately.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

03/13/2010 09:41:01 AM · #81

Originally posted by posthumous:

any difference the pros see between fine art and fine art photography is an unfortunate limitation on their fine art photography.

The Fine Art Photography Nazis...such as myself stems from and aversion to quickie Photoshop action/plugin type of stuff where Bingo...123 anyone can be an Artist!

There have been a number of books written warning us about the internet and technology dangerously watering down culture and just about everything in their path and I believe the core of this rigidness is mostly to keep things somewhat rooted. Here we have the Camera and the darkroom being held sacred...digital is of course fine but keeping the powers of the camera as an artistic tool is important. I teach a Street Photography Workshop and last week 21 people showed up with DSLRs and well over half didn't understand aperture. That's fine but they all craved for the basics and not the digital bells and whistles. I asked "who shoots in Manual?" and maybe 4 hands went up. I asked "who wants to learn how to shoot in Manual?" and about 11 hands went up. As we moved through Chinatown where the Workshop was held we realized whoever didn't raise a hand didn't really understand the question. Many were in P, A (because some friend suggested A) or Auto and pretty unhappy with the output. Hence their attendance...and also many that I spoke to wanted emulate images from the Film/Darkroom era, not the sameness of the what's being produced in the Digital Era. I can see the line drawn and I love that line. Digital Art Photography looks, smells, feels and tastes like Olive Garden food and Homey don't eat at The Olive Garden... (Bennigans, Red Lobster, Macaroni Grill, Chili's, TGIFs etc.)

So I'm NOT talking about ART but Digital Art Photography as opposed to Fine Art Photography the latter being a little (perhaps a lot) more pure in it's means to achieve the same thing. How's that, a little clearer?

ETA: I only noticed yesterday evening that Photography was not in the Challenge title so, my points are not being made directly to this Challenge, DQ's or anything other than my own thoughts and opinions AND I've been fried to a crisp over the last few weeks.

ETA!!! 10:48 Saturday, Morning "Computers Are Making Us Dumb" a segment just announced on CNN that will probably run all day.

Message edited by author 2010-03-13 10:50:08.

pixelpig

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 1.8/50mm SAM

03/13/2010 11:23:41 AM · #82

There are so many rules about photography. Conveniently, most of them are part of the restrictions & rules on this site.

The way I see it, rules are created by people who are attempting to understand & structure something after it happens. The camera happened first & was first used by artists. Photographers & the rules of photography happened second, & IMO it is a codependent relationship. The rules of photography make photographers possible, so the rules are passionately defended by photographers.

Art is something that happens. The people who do art do it because that is the way their mind works. The only rules that matter to an artist are those that pertain to the mind of the individual artist. In the moment an individual uses a camera without regard to the rule of photography, that person is an artist, not a photographer.

The camera always captures the light according to the rules of the camera, without regard to the rules of photography or the mind of the person releasing the shutter.

I offer my sympathy to all the people in the Fine Arts challenge who got a DQ.

It would be interesting to find out what might happen if once a year, perhaps for an April Fools Day Contest, this site would temporarily abandon every single one of the rules. It would be more fun than the traditional prank.

ps
Maybe computers are not making us dumb. Maybe computers are making the dumbness in all of us more noticeable.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

03/13/2010 11:26:44 AM · #83

Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

I would never ask for a qualification on an image nor would I ever give out a "one" vote but it doesn't matter what I think - everyone here is entitled to do what works for them (within the rules obviously). Unfortunately.

There's a reason that there's a link to report an image if you suspect a rules violation. Once you click the link, you're asked to explain, in detail, what you feel *may* be the problem. At that point, you are asked to return to the image, and vote as if it was legal.

It's not necessarily SC's job to vet every image. We should report an image if we suspect it, vote appropriately, and let it in their hands. It's just part of the process. I think I've reported maybe two or three images in the three and a half years I've been here......I know I've been asked for validation at least twice that. We help keep each other straight.....8>)

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

03/13/2010 11:27:52 AM · #84

Originally posted by pixelpig:

Maybe computers are not making us dumb. Maybe computers are making the dumbness in all of us more noticeable.

Hmm......

There's a thought! It certainly gets out there much more quickly to make it apparent.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

03/13/2010 11:30:51 AM · #85

Originally posted by pixelpig:

Maybe computers are making the dumbness in all of us more noticeable.

When I first went online in 1992 or whatever it was, I was simply gobsmacked by the general level of working illiteracy in the general population. When AOL released its hordes onto the Internet in 1994 or whatever it was, my despair sank to new depths.

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

03/13/2010 11:32:16 AM · #86

Originally posted by bohemka:

Squeezing art into a box is to miss the point entirely.

Now that sings music to my ears. Well put. It's what happened in the Fine Arts Exhibit imo. We'll never see the true potential here if it's constrained into one week challenges.

Message edited by author 2010-03-13 11:35:27.

pixelpig

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 1.8/50mm SAM

03/13/2010 11:44:05 AM · #87

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by pixelpig:
Maybe computers are making the dumbness in all of us more noticeable.

When I first went online in 1992 or whatever it was, I was simply gobsmacked by the general level of working illiteracy in the general population. When AOL released its hordes onto the Internet in 1994 or whatever it was, my despair sank to new depths.

I have noticed the same lack of working literacy. AOL..oh dear. But it's probably not AOL making people dumb as it is making it possible for people to get online who would otherwise not be able to.

Gatorguy

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

03/13/2010 11:47:11 AM · #88

Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by bohemka:
Squeezing art into a box is to miss the point entirely.

Now that sings music to my ears. Well put. It's what happened in the Fine Arts Exhibit imo. We'll never see the true potential here if it's constrained into one week challenges.

Yes but couldn't you say the same about pretty much any challenge? I think it still has to fall within our rule sets, after all that's what makes DPC DPC. There are plenty of places to enter contests where dates and rules don't matter.

I think what sets DPC apart is you have to produce within a limited time frame and within certain constraints. I think that's an art-form in itself.

Message edited by author 2010-03-13 11:47:43.

one2one

Olympus E-5

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

03/13/2010 11:58:19 AM · #89

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by bohemka:
Squeezing art into a box is to miss the point entirely.

Now that sings music to my ears. Well put. It's what happened in the Fine Arts Exhibit imo. We'll never see the true potential here if it's constrained into one week challenges.

Yes but couldn't you say the same about pretty much any challenge? I think it still has to fall within our rule sets, after all that's what makes DPC DPC. There are plenty of places to enter contests where dates and rules don't matter.

I think what sets DPC apart is you have to produce within a limited time frame and within certain constraints. I think that's an art-form in itself.

I agree totally. I was talking more about fine art challenges rather than your regular DPC challenge. To me fine art shouldn't have constraints like time or subject matter. It needs to come naturally, from within. I guess I could never be a paid fine art photographer (if indeed that exists) with a dateline to meet. :)

03/13/2010 12:02:07 PM · #90

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

I think what sets DPC apart is you have to produce within a limited time frame and within certain constraints. I think that's an art-form in itself.

I've heard people refer to Michael Jordan as an Artist and people say "life is art" and I've even heard heavy drinkers being called artists...and not for putting paint to canvas, I should add.

Challenges being "time-trails" are fine and you may be right that that in itself, is "an art-form in itself" but like all those TV Chef shows, which operate the exact same way, they do produce some really shitty inedible food (see:Chopped). Be very careful and mindful where the standards are being set. I'd prefer a slowly cooked meal.

Message edited by author 2010-03-13 12:04:35.

Gatorguy

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

03/13/2010 12:11:03 PM · #91

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

I think what sets DPC apart is you have to produce within a limited time frame and within certain constraints. I think that's an art-form in itself.

I've heard people refer to Michael Jordan as an Artist and people say "life is art" and I've even heard heavy drinkers being called artists...and not for putting paint to canvas, I should add.

Challenges being "time-trails" are fine and you may be right that that in itself, is "an art-form in itself" but like all those TV Chef shows, which operate the exact same way, they do produce some really shitty inedible food (see:Chopped). Be very careful and mindful where the standards are being set. I'd prefer a slowly cooked meal.

I don't disagree at all with your points, just that DPC doesn't operates in a certain way, and that's what has made it successful. Should it be different? Well that's a whole new conversation.

Regarding duration, how short is too short, how long is too long? Well in the real world, at least for a working photographer, it's as long or as short as the client says it is. ;)

Message edited by author 2010-03-13 12:14:55.

03/13/2010 12:37:06 PM · #92

Originally posted by Gatorguy:

It's all about perspective, what's produced and how it's regarded. Some professionals have to work quickly...wedding photographer, for example and then there are Food Photographers who might have two to three days to get a single shot...including pre-planning, drawings lighting etc.

Putting and keeping things in perspective is quite important.

Message edited by author 2010-03-13 12:45:35.