Fine art print pricing, limited runs, Monte Nagler

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

02/19/2004 09:16:15 AM · #1

Last night at the local camera club meeting, we had Monte Nagler as our guest. He brought several prints and shared some thoughts.
1. Sells limited runs only. 50 max. Signed and numbered.
2. 1-10 $600
3. 11-20 $750
4. 21-30 $900
5. 31-40 $1050
6. 41-50 $1200
Prints are 16x20
White border around print
White single mat, bottom weighted.

Keys to success are MARKETING.

www.monte-nagler.com

Shoots medium format, black and white. Uses Illford paper.

Message edited by author 2004-02-19 09:28:06.

PaulMdx

Canon EOS-1D

02/19/2004 09:19:15 AM · #2

Originally posted by Flash:

Keys to success are MARKETING.

Such as premium pricing: set a high price, people will think the product is good.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

02/19/2004 12:04:50 PM · #3

There are also points of view that feel the whole idea of limited edition pricing is just a sham.

There did used to be a legitimate reason for it, due to the difficulty in creating quality reprints or the essential manual time required to make the prints. There was also a reason for it when printing presses or woodcuts were used, that would eventually degrade.

Digital fine art photography and limited editions are just artificial constructs to boost the price.

Lenswork has had quite a few articles on this (as they provide their limited edition runs via digital reproduction) It is also why they don't artificially boost the price.

The other way to work with limited runs is to start counting at 50/50 and sell _downwards_ 1/50 is often considered more valuable than 50/50 in traditional image sales I understand.

Other questionablly ethical approaches are to start a new series if a new size is printed. I.e., 50 16x20s 100 8x10s etc

Also is the idea that if you feel a scene will be sellable - shoot it a few times. Then sell 50 of the first negative, 50 of the second negative, and so on...

RHoldenSr

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

02/19/2004 12:44:00 PM · #4

I read an article on a website for a Master Photographer that explained it like so:

If a customer is spending hundreds or thousands of dollars for a photograph they want to know it is going to be limited. They do not want copies of the same photograph being mass produced thus lowering the value of the photograph they purchased.

If you are going to do a limited run, the original has to be distroyed.

I agree with what Gordon said:

quote:
The other way to work with limited runs is to start counting at 50/50 and sell _downwards_ 1/50 is often considered more valuable than 50/50 in traditional image sales I understand.

But I think the most popular method is like Flash posted.

The last few productions are going to go up in value especially if the work becomes famous.

I only wish someday I could have this problem to deal with :)

Brent_Ward

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L USM

02/19/2004 12:49:34 PM · #5

I'm in agreement, If you make a limited print run. No more original prints can be made from that shot (or one that looks like it). Now posters and media usage are different. ;D

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

02/19/2004 12:57:56 PM · #6

One of the most lucid discussions on this topic I've ever found

Lenswork fourm at photo.net on LW Special Editions

It also as some interesting digressions on the topic of photography vs digital art - in particular, the question 'where do you choose to draw the line?' which in essence says there is no actual answer, other than your own personal answer (hence the concept of choice in the statement)

There is a lot of discussion on market value and marketing of images and the foundations of that too. Well worth the time it takes to tead through I think.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/19/2004 12:58:51 PM · #7

With film, particularly large format fine art stuff, one of the ways I have seen limited editions handled was that once the prints were finished, the photographer would severely deface the negative and make contact prints of the defaced neg to include with the original limited edition.

The funny thing is that some photographers began defacing their own negs similarly and selling prints from them as originals.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

02/19/2004 01:31:17 PM · #8

Many points raised here.

One of my reasons for sharing the pricing of this artist, was to inject an actual price structure, (one that is in operation), from a seasoned veteran in this business. A person that graduated with an egineering/business degree, worked for a major automaker, quit, took up photography at the age of 30, studied w/ Ansel in Yosemite for a week (1979), travels around the world, and lives off the sales of his prints.

Kind of sounds like the aspiration of some of the folks here.

I included his web address, for those that might be interested in "seeing" some of his work. He does not shoot digital, nor 35mm, and uses a 25 year old enlarger.

He has a 3rd book due out in 2005.

He mentioned that the negative is like the score in music and the photograph the performance. A good performance is easier with a good score. Sometimes a movement of 6 inches of the tri-pod can make or break a photograph. He emphasized the premium light times of early morning and evening. Although he had examples of prints that violated the 3rds rule, virtually all of them followed it. He also discussed and showed examples of foreground's that "made" the photograph and importance in including them.

Most that I've seen discussed here on dpc over the last 6 months was verified last night. Understand the governing principles of photography, do them, market your work effectively, and if you choose, live off what you love. At least sustain your hobby. As for pricing, as discussed in other threads, understand the value. Posted above is an example.

RHoldenSr

Canon EOS-5D

02/19/2004 02:13:20 PM · #9

Flash

I like this guy! He thinks a lot like me in a way.
I loved this article he wrote:

Put Humor In Your Shots

We have all heard the expression lighten up and do not take life so seriously as common phrases of how best to deal with lifes day-to-day stresses. And we all know how important it is to have and maintain a good sense of humor to get through pressure-filled days.

Have you ever thought about lightening up on your photography by putting some humor in your shots? Doing so can be refreshing and will add variety to your photographic portfolio.

You can put humor in your photographs two ways: intentionally planning or stumbling onto a funny situation.

Planned humor can begin at home with your children and family pets. You can dress up your little girl in moms high heels and makeup or pose your Labrador on the piano bench ready to play a Mozart concerto! Have a cat and goldfish? How about setting your feline alongside the goldfish bowl and then waiting for that hungry, lip-smacking look in his eyes. Or the next time grandma and grandpa come to visit, think up some slapstick routine involving the family that you can capture on film.

The second type of humor photography requires more spontaneity on your part because most often the action is in front of you almost before you know it. And unless you are ready, you may miss the shot.

At the completion of a recent workshop I taught at Michigans DoubleJJ Ranch with photographers Jill Enfield and Rick Sammon, the ranch owner thought it would be a great photo op if we three posed atop his prized bull, Sir George. This was not just any bull, but a 2200 pound one with all the trimmings! We werenâ��t up there very long but friend and photographer Jim Jurewicz was ready with his camera and captured this humorous and fun-filled picture.

Always try to be on the lookout for humor both with and without your camera. After all, lightening up is a real snap!

02/19/2004 02:39:03 PM · #10

Originally posted by Gordon:

There is a lot of discussion on market value and marketing of images and the foundations of that too. Well worth the time it takes to tead through I think.

I found that the positions of Brooks Jensen were both agreeable and dis-agreeable. Regardless, worthwhile reading. Worthy of pondering.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

02/19/2004 02:58:03 PM · #11

Originally posted by Calvus:

Flash

I like this guy! He thinks a lot like me in a way.
I loved this article he wrote:

Put Humor In Your Shots

Calvus,

I found him to be a pretty laid back guy. Certainly passionately knowledgeable about his craft, while not pretentious and yet extremely willing to "give back" or share his insight/secrets to others interested in learning.

It was a 45 minute drive for me to attend. A certain take away for me was the spark to try and convert some of my Ireland photos to sepia. I'm enamoured with the drama of the tones.

Patents4u

Canon EOS-40D

02/19/2004 03:04:56 PM · #12

Flash - where was the meeting? I'm familiar with Monte - he used to, and maybe still does, write an article on photography for newspapers in my area.