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01/04/2010 01:37:39 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
I would say that a portrait can definitely involve a moving image whether it is an animal or not. This is a good example of a portrait of a sportsman i'd say...
Its an extremely wide ranging term though and i think in this case the choice of the term 'portrait' for the challenge wasn't great as it obviously confused some people. I think the main point of the challenge was the 'wild bird' part. The blue ribbon was certainly a portrait of a wild bird and a very worthy winner i'd say. |
I don't even consider that close to a portrait. That is a sports action photo. No other category that could go in, in my mind. |
It is fascinating to see other peoples photographic definitions. I never thought that they could be so narrow sometimes. Note; i'm not saying wrong. Just different and surprising. I learn a lot from DPC!
I'm looking forward to the 'Candid' discussion as there are a few entries there i would certainly say were DNMC so it'll be interesting to see other peoples views.
Message edited by author 2010-01-04 13:41:08. |
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01/04/2010 01:39:38 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
I take the other approach, I think Challenge title trumps challenge description. A lot of people never even read the description. The description didn't mention "portrait" because it should have been understood from the challenge title. |
This makes no sense to me. The challenge title is just the title...the description tells you specifics. For example, one challenge now is Paul Simon Lyrics....but the description says title, lyrics, or album title...So if it's a picture of a song title or album title is it DQ to you?
The Title could be what it is to shorten the title. Now if the title for Portrait of a Wild Bird were instead "Photograph a wild bird in a natural environment -- no birds on leashes, perched on gloves, no zoos, no bird feeders -- just wild and natural." That's an exceptionally long title...hence instead of listing that it was simply Wild Birds, with expectations that you read the challenge description.
There are some challenge descriptions that don't require a definition...ie if it was just "Birds" and the expectation was that any photo of a bird would count ....then I can understand just using the title.
You can't take away from people because you decided that you didn't need to read the full instructions. When you bu your camera, you don't take it back for beind defective because you didn't read the instructions that said insert battery.
For all purposes, the description should really trump the title. |
but . . the . . challenge . . title . . IS . . the . . challenge
I never said to ignore the description. I said some people do, I'm not one of them.
Heck, some challenges don't even have descriptions. |
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01/04/2010 01:47:32 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
I take the other approach, I think Challenge title trumps challenge description. A lot of people never even read the description. The description didn't mention "portrait" because it should have been understood from the challenge title. |
This makes no sense to me. The challenge title is just the title...the description tells you specifics. For example, one challenge now is Paul Simon Lyrics....but the description says title, lyrics, or album title...So if it's a picture of a song title or album title is it DQ to you?
The Title could be what it is to shorten the title. Now if the title for Portrait of a Wild Bird were instead "Photograph a wild bird in a natural environment -- no birds on leashes, perched on gloves, no zoos, no bird feeders -- just wild and natural." That's an exceptionally long title...hence instead of listing that it was simply Wild Birds, with expectations that you read the challenge description.
There are some challenge descriptions that don't require a definition...ie if it was just "Birds" and the expectation was that any photo of a bird would count ....then I can understand just using the title.
You can't take away from people because you decided that you didn't need to read the full instructions. When you bu your camera, you don't take it back for beind defective because you didn't read the instructions that said insert battery.
For all purposes, the description should really trump the title. |
but . . the . . challenge . . title . . IS . . the . . challenge
I never said to ignore the description. I said some people do, I'm not one of them.
Heck, some challenges don't even have descriptions. |
No the challenge title isn't the challenge...the challenge title is the challenge title...The CHALLENGE includes the description. And challenges with no description are challenges where the title is the complete description...ie the Birds example I gave before. |
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01/04/2010 01:55:14 PM · #54 |
Would be good if DPC had its own Glossary of Terms & Definitions and that was referenced (linked) in every challenge description.
I'm usually a stickler for Challenge compliance and if this were a people portrait challenge, I would've DNMC'd the track/hurdle sports action shot, but for some reason I didn't consider the strict sense of the Portrait definition for the birds challenge - maybe because I read and understood the challenge description. In hindsight, "Wild Birds" would have been a much better challenge title.
Reading some folks very broad interpretation of "Portrait", you may as well replace it with "Photo".
Maybe we just need more careful selection of topic and description to avoid confusion. ...yeah, like that's possible. ;-) |
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01/04/2010 01:58:50 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by albc28:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
I take the other approach, I think Challenge title trumps challenge description. A lot of people never even read the description. The description didn't mention "portrait" because it should have been understood from the challenge title. |
This makes no sense to me. The challenge title is just the title...the description tells you specifics. For example, one challenge now is Paul Simon Lyrics....but the description says title, lyrics, or album title...So if it's a picture of a song title or album title is it DQ to you?
The Title could be what it is to shorten the title. Now if the title for Portrait of a Wild Bird were instead "Photograph a wild bird in a natural environment -- no birds on leashes, perched on gloves, no zoos, no bird feeders -- just wild and natural." That's an exceptionally long title...hence instead of listing that it was simply Wild Birds, with expectations that you read the challenge description.
There are some challenge descriptions that don't require a definition...ie if it was just "Birds" and the expectation was that any photo of a bird would count ....then I can understand just using the title.
You can't take away from people because you decided that you didn't need to read the full instructions. When you bu your camera, you don't take it back for beind defective because you didn't read the instructions that said insert battery.
For all purposes, the description should really trump the title. |
but . . the . . challenge . . title . . IS . . the . . challenge
I never said to ignore the description. I said some people do, I'm not one of them.
Heck, some challenges don't even have descriptions. |
No the challenge title isn't the challenge...the challenge title is the challenge title...The CHALLENGE includes the description. And challenges with no description are challenges where the title is the complete description...ie the Birds example I gave before. |
I think you've misunderstood me the whole way, but whatever. Rock on with your bad self and only pay attention to the description, when there is one. |
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01/04/2010 01:59:37 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Would be good if DPC had its own Glossary of Terms & Definitions and that was referenced (linked) in every challenge description.
I'm usually a stickler for Challenge compliance and if this were a people portrait challenge, I would've DNMC'd the track/hurdle sports action shot, but for some reason I didn't consider the strict sense of the Portrait definition for the birds challenge - maybe because I read and understood the challenge description. In hindsight, "Wild Birds" would have been a much better challenge title.
Reading some folks very broad interpretation of "Portrait", you may as well replace it with "Photo".
Maybe we just need more careful selection of topic and description to avoid confusion. ...yeah, like that's possible. ;-) |
What? and miss out on people getting all bent out of shape over semantics? no way, man. |
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01/04/2010 02:57:14 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
I would say that a portrait can definitely involve a moving image whether it is an animal or not. This is a good example of a portrait of a sportsman i'd say...
Its an extremely wide ranging term though and i think in this case the choice of the term 'portrait' for the challenge wasn't great as it obviously confused some people. I think the main point of the challenge was the 'wild bird' part. The blue ribbon was certainly a portrait of a wild bird and a very worthy winner i'd say. |
I don't even consider that close to a portrait. That is a sports action photo. No other category that could go in, in my mind. |
I agree that MattO's shot would be stretching the definition of a portrait -- but check out this guy's sports action portraits. Portraits 100%, and fantastic ones they are. Patrik Giardino Although I suspect most of his subjects are domesticated. ;)
Then I ask myself...why am I even in this conversation????
for Art :)
Challenge Title: Photo
Challenge Description: Take a photo. |
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01/04/2010 02:58:21 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
for Art :)
Challenge Title: Photo
Challenge Description: Take a photo. |
DMNC!! That's a portrait, not a photo! |
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01/04/2010 03:53:59 PM · #59 |
| Can we switch the argument to the definition of "Study" in Free Study? |
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01/04/2010 03:59:02 PM · #60 |
| What about "Free" in free Study? |
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01/04/2010 03:59:45 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Can we switch the argument to the definition of "Study" in Free Study? |
no |
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01/04/2010 04:05:43 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
Challenge Title: Photo
Challenge Description: Take a photo. |
I donno... Based on the challenge title, any photo will do, but then when you read the description, where it says "take" (not "make) it gets a little muddy. From my perspective, "taking" a photo involves an essence of stealing, it's almost (but not quite) like a "capture", whereas when you "make" a photo, that's creative work, you are creating it from scratch...
(You *do* all recognize I'm being satirical, right?)
So, therefore, for this challenge, street photography is good, but studio lighting is verboten. Agreed?
R. |
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01/04/2010 04:07:15 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
I would say that a portrait can definitely involve a moving image whether it is an animal or not. This is a good example of a portrait of a sportsman i'd say...
Its an extremely wide ranging term though and i think in this case the choice of the term 'portrait' for the challenge wasn't great as it obviously confused some people. I think the main point of the challenge was the 'wild bird' part. The blue ribbon was certainly a portrait of a wild bird and a very worthy winner i'd say. |
I don't even consider that close to a portrait. That is a sports action photo. No other category that could go in, in my mind. |
Not remotely in the ballpark of being a portrait. Not a candid either....DOH!
Message edited by author 2010-01-04 16:08:17. |
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01/04/2010 04:08:58 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by shanksware:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Can we switch the argument to the definition of "Study" in Free Study? |
no |
Alrighty then, how about all those who used the narrow definition of "portrait" line up on that side and those whose who considered all the shots portraits, line up on this side. I'll distribute weapons... |
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01/04/2010 04:10:28 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Can we switch the argument to the definition of "Study" in Free Study? |
Technically, NOT Free since only paid members can participate...right? |
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01/04/2010 04:15:38 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by shanksware:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Can we switch the argument to the definition of "Study" in Free Study? |
no |
Alrighty then, how about all those who used the narrow definition of "portrait" line up on that side and those whose who considered all the shots portraits, line up on this side. I'll distribute weapons... |
Might I have a bludgeoning weapon please? |
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01/04/2010 04:17:34 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by shanksware:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Can we switch the argument to the definition of "Study" in Free Study? |
no |
Alrighty then, how about all those who used the narrow definition of "portrait" line up on that side and those whose who considered all the shots portraits, line up on this side. I'll distribute weapons... |
Might I have a bludgeoning weapon please? |
First tell me which side you're on. This determines whether you get the Metal hammer or the Nerf model. |
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01/04/2010 04:19:59 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by shanksware:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Can we switch the argument to the definition of "Study" in Free Study? |
no |
Alrighty then, how about all those who used the narrow definition of "portrait" line up on that side and those whose who considered all the shots portraits, line up on this side. I'll distribute weapons... |
Might I have a bludgeoning weapon please? |
First tell me which side you're on. This determines whether you get the Metal hammer or the Nerf model. |
Honestly? I was planning to smash randomly... |
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01/04/2010 04:20:16 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
I would say that a portrait can definitely involve a moving image whether it is an animal or not. This is a good example of a portrait of a sportsman i'd say...
Its an extremely wide ranging term though and i think in this case the choice of the term 'portrait' for the challenge wasn't great as it obviously confused some people. I think the main point of the challenge was the 'wild bird' part. The blue ribbon was certainly a portrait of a wild bird and a very worthy winner i'd say. |
I don't even consider that close to a portrait. That is a sports action photo. No other category that could go in, in my mind. |
Not remotely in the ballpark of being a portrait. Not a candid either....DOH! |
I wouldn't say it was a candid but as a portrait i thought it would fit in the sense that it captured something of the essence of the character. I can see i'm probably wrong with that though. Left me slightly confused as to what defines a portrait now! Ah, well. I'm sure i'll learn! :)
E.T.A: Does a portrait need to be contrived then? That would leave out candid portraiture of course. And wild birds! You're all fired!!
Message edited by author 2010-01-04 16:39:51. |
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01/04/2010 04:29:40 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
Charles-- your entry was a fine portrait of a wild bird--as were #'s 1-13. I would humbly suggest that your take on this challenge is rather narrow, even oppressively so. IMO, the key limitation of the challenge was to keep zoo and trained birds of prey out of the challenge. |
I agree again, though in my case I'd replace the word "humbly" with "sharply." |
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01/04/2010 04:33:06 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by coryboehne:
Honestly? I was planning to smash randomly... |
Ok, Metal, it is! |
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01/04/2010 04:52:47 PM · #72 |
Well, not that I'm the seasoned photographer to ask, but I always thought that a portrait was something that was posed for... Now my definition of portrait comes from art as well, not just photography. I also think, that a portrait can be the full body, not just from the chest up. Think of all the full body portrait artworks that you have seen throughout the years.
Here is a portrait of King Louis XIV, it is full body, and posed for...
//shoeblogs.com/consolation/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/louisxiv.jpg
So I don't see pictures of action as portraits... Now in all fairness, I didn't ding those action photos in the challenge. I'm just not a picky voter, and believe me, before I get flamed, I see the contradiction. Just for the record, here was my entry
It finished right where I thought it would, which is good, because it means that I am getting good at judging how the voters will vote |
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01/04/2010 05:00:31 PM · #73 |
| I like that there were some flight shots in the challenge, variety is a good thing. If we all took too strict an interpretation of a challenge title/description, I would end up voting on 100+ images of the same thing. We need to encourage more OOB photos, and allow people to make up their own minds when interpreting a challenge. |
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01/04/2010 05:03:27 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Well, not that I'm the seasoned photographer to ask, but I always thought that a portrait was something that was posed for... |
Yea, thats what i meant by whether it had to be contrived. I guess my idea of portraiture was a huge umbrella under which sat many subsections, candid portraiture, action portraiture, posed portraiture, each with the goal of revealing something of that person (or animal). I guess my one condition was that it should concentrate solely on one subject. Anyway, i think my perception of it was maybe too broad. |
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01/04/2010 05:05:34 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Well, not that I'm the seasoned photographer to ask, but I always thought that a portrait was something that was posed for... |
Yea, thats what i meant by whether it had to be contrived. I guess my idea of portraiture was a huge umbrella under which sat many subsections, candid portraiture, action portraiture, posed portraiture, each with the goal of revealing something of that person (or animal). I guess my one condition was that it should concentrate solely on one subject. Anyway, i think my perception of it was maybe too broad. |
nope! it was too narrow! I have seen many portraits with two people. I knew you were the one that voted mine down!! Shame on you! |
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