Are gay rights, including gay marriage, evolving?

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

11/12/2009 04:59:58 PM · #2876

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Could you look Louis, or Mousie, or the people you say you know in the eye and tell them they have no more right to legalize their relationship than a convicted felon has to vote?

Louis knows exactly how I feel and I'd certainly have him over for dinner if he'd come. (it's a long trip from Toronto)

K10, haven't you seen those episodes where Spock loses his emotional control? When it goes, it REALLY goes... :) Luckily I am a master of my emotions...well, except in church. I'm crying for some reason or other most Sundays. Go figure.

Louis

Nikon D800

11/12/2009 05:21:39 PM · #2877

What better place than an allergist's joint for a person with allergies to eat? Anyway, for my perspective on how people with differing opinions should behave in the real world (as opposed to teh Internets), see my post above about my neighbours. The spittle needn't fly all the time. There's actual living to do.

Message edited by author 2009-11-12 17:23:16.

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

11/12/2009 05:32:13 PM · #2878

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

well, except in church. I'm crying for some reason or other most Sundays. Go figure.

At confession?

Message edited by author 2009-11-12 17:32:48.

11/12/2009 09:58:59 PM · #2879

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Could you look Louis, or Mousie, or the people you say you know in the eye and tell them they have no more right to legalize their relationship than a convicted felon has to vote?

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Louis knows exactly how I feel and I'd certainly have him over for dinner if he'd come. (it's a long trip from Toronto)

Okay, let's say for sake of discussion that you passed the "Guess who's coming to dinner?" test.....

Would you attend his wedding?

11/12/2009 10:46:28 PM · #2880

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Would you attend his wedding?

Good question and I honestly don't know the answer. It's not an automatic yes or no.

11/12/2009 10:59:28 PM · #2881

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Would you attend his wedding?

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Good question and I honestly don't know the answer. It's not an automatic yes or no.

I know, and I'm sorry for asking that question as I know you genuinely struggle with this issue.

I guess that I have to see it as a sign of hope, and open-mindedness, coming from your faith and background that you didn't flat out say no.

The same way that you struggle with social issues as they conflict with your faith, I struggle with issues of faith as they pertain to what I view as my real life.

I keep hoping that someday "The Church" will be able to exercise more compassion, and see that there is no wrong in growing towards levels of acceptance simply because we're a more knowledgeable species than we were when so many of our standards wewre set.

There will always be issues where legal, moral, right, and fair conflict, but I hope that we can eventually agree that discrimination at a basic level of humanity is wrong.

11/12/2009 11:08:27 PM · #2882

You're right. One day those felons will get the vote! ;)

Message edited by author 2009-11-12 23:08:35.

11/12/2009 11:13:57 PM · #2883

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

You're right. One day those felons will get the vote! ;)

Oh, good GRIEF!!!

You're SUCH a weenie!!!! LOL!!!

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/13/2009 11:18:09 AM · #2884

Man, it was cue the Twilight Zone music time last night when the NBC sit-com Community used the term "robot debater"... :D

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

11/13/2009 12:43:18 PM · #2885

Rod Dreher on Retreating to a Defensible Position on Gay Marriage

and this one (also Dreher): On Gay Marriage, Empathy is a Two-Way Street

The second is, IMO, especially interesting in its exploration of just why so many people feel threatened by the concept...

R.

11/13/2009 12:52:46 PM · #2886

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

The second is, IMO, especially interesting in its exploration of just why so many people feel threatened by the concept...

The comments that follow are even more interesting.

AJSullivan

11/13/2009 12:59:07 PM · #2887

I ay have said this in the first 30 pages of this thread, but for hte life of me, I just can't figure out why anyone cares what people want to do. What stake do any of us have in 2 dudes getting hitched? None that I can think of. It won't change my life in any way, it won't make my marriage any less meaningful, etc. It just doesn't even make sense to me.

11/13/2009 01:03:16 PM · #2888

Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Nope.....It just doesn't make sense.

11/13/2009 01:12:44 PM · #2889

Originally posted by AJSullivan:

It won't change my life in any way, it won't make my marriage any less meaningful, etc.

It's not about what it will do, it's about irrational fear of what it MIGHT do.

The Large Hadron Collider might create a black hole that destroys the earth (even though the physics of such a small amount of mass makes that impossible)
The public option might destroy insurance companies who can't compete (even though private schools and shipping companies do just fine)
Aliens from another planet might be visiting earth (even though it would take dozens of years to get here at the speed of light)
Holding Guantanamo prisoners on U.S. might be too dangerous (even though Zacarias Moussaoi, Ramzi Yousef and Richard Reid have already been here for years)

Yadayadayada... Louis already posted a list of the ridiculous things gay marriage might do.

11/13/2009 01:32:07 PM · #2890

Thanks for the articles Robert. I have only read the first so far, but found it fascinating. His message resonated with me and how I view the world. It sounds like we are fighting what Tolkien's elves described as "the long defeat".

11/13/2009 01:36:04 PM · #2891

Originally posted by AJSullivan:

It won't change my life in any way, it won't make my marriage any less meaningful, etc.

Originally posted by scalvert:

If you don't watermark your images, you might lose revenue......

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

11/13/2009 01:37:50 PM · #2892

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

His message resonated with me and how I view the world.

It certainly should. He's an editorial columnist for National Review, The American Conservative and Fox News.

Louis

Nikon D800

11/13/2009 01:39:24 PM · #2893

The weakness of the first article is exposed in the last comments: "...people will have to yield to an ideational model of some sort. It is doubtful that any culture can long survive without strong, traditional families and durable moral norms based in a transcendental source."

Just as the author can come up with this kind of argument from thin air, I can say, from thin air, "Tosh".

11/13/2009 01:41:06 PM · #2894

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

If you don't watermark your images, you might lose revenue......

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Actually, I had a line in there about watermarking and deleted it:
Any sort of watermark might drive amateur photographers away from DPC (even though Worth1000 and stock sites enjoy higher traffic, and we regularly DQ newcomers who insist on having them on entries)

11/13/2009 01:48:42 PM · #2895

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
His message resonated with me and how I view the world.

It certainly should. He's an editorial columnist for National Review, The American Conservative and Fox News.

You do recall that I am a card carrying Democrat and hate Fox news with a passion...

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

11/13/2009 01:50:37 PM · #2896

Read an interesting book recently, called "The Unit". Males over 60 and females over 50 have been deemed dispensible and are to report to the Unit for the remainder of thier lives. Here they will be subject to various tests and experiments, and will donate organs until time for the "final donation", all in support of the "needed" - those with children. Makes perfect sense, really. After all, if we aren't here to procreate, why are we here? So we shouldn't limit ourselves to dictating the lifestyles of gays. We should also eliminate singles past the age of child-bearing. Or those who are sterile, married or not. In fact, people should be tested before they can marry - if they are sterile, no dice. They obviously cannot constructively contribute to an idealized society.

(Sadly, as a "dispensible", I thought the book made sense by the end....)

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/13/2009 01:54:33 PM · #2897

Originally posted by Melethia:

We should also eliminate singles past the age of child-bearing. Or those who are sterile, married or not. In fact, people should be tested before they can marry - if they are sterile, no dice. They obviously cannot constructively contribute to an idealized society.

Goodness... I can see the demise of Vasectomies and a stupendous grouth in the sale of male enhancement products :O)

Ray

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

11/13/2009 01:56:53 PM · #2898

Originally posted by Louis:

Things is.......how commonplace is what would fit that description of strong, traditional family?

F'rinstance....my wife and I have been together for 31 years, and we have a 14 1/2 year old daughter.....

First......NOBODY we ran around with when we first were together is still together.....not one single couple.

Second.....our daughter is happy, well-adjusted, and knows that there are no gender barriers that make sense because Lisa and I are different in our home roles than "traditional" couples/families. She sees our unusual characteristics as the norm, and her friends' dysfunctional families who are more "traditional", as something she has no interest.

Also, there are a fair amount of single parents, and kids with different last names than the parents that we see there at any given time.

This isn't an unusual thing, either. It's been this way since she started out in pre-school......lots & lots of single parent, and second marriage, mixed families are as common as "traditional" situations. And we don't really see much in the way of a difference, or a pattern in the behaviors of kids in their original families as opposed to second families.

There are happy, and unhappy, kids and families both ways.

Personally, I view any family that is loving, involved, and communicative with each other as having traditional values, never mind what gender, race, or sexual orientation they may be.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

11/13/2009 02:01:32 PM · #2899

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
His message resonated with me and how I view the world.

It certainly should. He's an editorial columnist for National Review, The American Conservative and Fox News.

You do recall that I am a card carrying Democrat and hate Fox news with a passion...

Ditto and ditto....

Doesn't keep me from thinking sometimes these people can be perfectly reasonable and bring up points worth listening to. Especially when the purpose of the editorial is just to try to *explain* why some conservatives feel as they do, not to convert us to that way of thinking.

R.