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09/11/2009 11:45:40 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
... if we, as a society, keep trying too hard to eliminate even the most mundane and non-life-threatening diseases, eventually we're just heading down a dangerous and frightening path. Our bodies will no longer be able to fight off ANYthing. |
Hey, I'll bet that's what happened to the invading aliens in War Of The Worlds. We'd better not plan on invading any other planets.
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09/11/2009 02:57:43 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by vawendy:
completely unreal. I haven't delved into rant threads before, only threads that have turned into rants and been moved. I used to find people like this amusing. Now it's too sad and scary to be funny anymore. These are the people who won't get their children vaccinated with the chicken pox vaccine; who say they'll just put them with other children who have it. The problem is, hardly anyone gets chicken pox anymore. Great, they say, then my kid doesn't have to worry about it. That's of, course, until they get older, and contract chicken pox from some other idiots poor child. Oh, but did I mention that the former poor child, who was not vaccinated, is now an adult and pregnant? And her child has been born with severe problems because she had chicken pox while pregnant? Or perhaps the chicken pox has led to something significantly more serious and caused blindness or death? I wonder what that parent thinks of the vaccine now? The sad thing is, they'll find something else on which to blame it. |
Double edged sword. We're looking at having more adults have problems in the future because we're vaccinating against a 'disease' that is primarily relatively harmless to begin with, but the convenience and ease of mind that the vaccine brings parents that no longer have to worry about a week or two of fevers and miserableness and scratching and the lessening of cosmetic damage from pox scars is not something that can be easily dismissed.
There is also a solution, it's called going in for the vaccine after a certain age if you haven't been exposed naturally. There are perfectly valid concerns about a chicken pox vaccine, and people that chose not to get their kids vaccinated shouldn't be vilified for that decision.
Tell you the truth, if we, as a society, keep trying too hard to eliminate even the most mundane and non-life-threatening diseases, eventually we're just heading down a dangerous and frightening path. Our bodies will no longer be able to fight off ANYthing. |
relatively is the word that concerns me. When you know of a child who was blinded because of a chickenpox related disease, it's not relatively harmless.
These are possible complications:
* Women who get chickenpox during pregnancy are at risk for congenital infection of the fetus.
* Newborns are at risk for severe infection, if they are exposed and their mothers are not immune.
* A secondary infection of the blisters may occur.
* Encephalitis is a serious, but rare complication.
* Reye's syndrome, pneumonia, myocarditis, and transient arthritis are other possible complications of chickenpox
* Cerebellar ataxia may appear during the recovery phase or later. This is characterized by a very unsteady walk.
* Strep A
As a parent when deciding upon whether or not to give my child the vaccine, I decided not to play Russian roulette with my child's health.
Although most people recover from chickenpox uneventfully or with a few minor scars, a small percentage suffer more serious complications. Each year in the United States, 4,000 to 9,000 persons are hospitalized with chickenpox, and up to 100 persons die. Those at highest risk for complications are newborns, persons with weakened immune systems, and adults. Although adults make up fewer than 5% of chickenpox cases in the United States, they account for half of the deaths from the disease.
The most common complications of chickenpox are skin infections and pneumonia. Other complications are encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) and hepatitis. Chickenpox can also lead to severe problems in pregnant women, causing stillbirths, birth defects, or infection of the newborn during childbirth.
If I had not vaccinated my children, they would not be immune, because I have not met anyone in the last 14 years who has had chicken pox to be able to infect my children. While you make think that's good, and they don't need the vaccination, think about this: The only person I have met with chicken pox was a 4 year old child. I was talking with his mom and him for 45 minutes, thinking that the child had a bad case of childhood acne. The mom then tells me he has chicken pox. Most people assume that you have had the disease or that you have been vaccinated. If I was pregnant at the time, that chance encounter could have had extremely serious repercussions. Why would I take chances with that? Sorry you're dead, honey, but it's a relatively harmless disease.
More simply put, even if it's relatively harmless, it can be hell for a week. Why have your children suffer just so they can get it the natural way? I can't stand a few mosquitoes bites, much less a whole body full of oozing blisters, so why would I think that's ok for my child to deal with?
Message edited by author 2009-09-11 14:59:34. |
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09/11/2009 03:10:52 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
We're looking at having more adults have problems in the future because we're vaccinating against a 'disease' that is primarily relatively harmless to begin with, but the convenience and ease of mind that the vaccine brings parents that no longer have to worry about a week or two of fevers and miserableness and scratching and the lessening of cosmetic damage from pox scars is not something that can be easily dismissed. |
Having the disease of chickenpox (at any age) makes it possible for you to develop shingles later on, and I assure you that is not exactly a relatively harmless" experience.
As mentioned, "seasonal" influenza kills some 500,000 in an average year; the 1918 pandemic killed something like 20 million, or about 10% of the world's population at the time. |
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09/11/2009 03:37:29 PM · #79 |
having had chicken pox as an adult (22), I can assure you it was *not* relatively harmless. my sister was 27 at the time and also had them (how we escaped them as a child is anyone's guess), and was even more miserable than I was. the doctor told my sister that she had a severe case of chicken pox, but, presumably, due to her age it was also shingles.
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09/11/2009 03:39:47 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by vawendy:
completely unreal. I haven't delved into rant threads before, only threads that have turned into rants and been moved. I used to find people like this amusing. Now it's too sad and scary to be funny anymore. These are the people who won't get their children vaccinated with the chicken pox vaccine; who say they'll just put them with other children who have it. The problem is, hardly anyone gets chicken pox anymore. Great, they say, then my kid doesn't have to worry about it. That's of, course, until they get older, and contract chicken pox from some other idiots poor child. Oh, but did I mention that the former poor child, who was not vaccinated, is now an adult and pregnant? And her child has been born with severe problems because she had chicken pox while pregnant? Or perhaps the chicken pox has led to something significantly more serious and caused blindness or death? I wonder what that parent thinks of the vaccine now? The sad thing is, they'll find something else on which to blame it. |
Double edged sword. We're looking at having more adults have problems in the future because we're vaccinating against a 'disease' that is primarily relatively harmless to begin with, but the convenience and ease of mind that the vaccine brings parents that no longer have to worry about a week or two of fevers and miserableness and scratching and the lessening of cosmetic damage from pox scars is not something that can be easily dismissed.
There is also a solution, it's called going in for the vaccine after a certain age if you haven't been exposed naturally. There are perfectly valid concerns about a chicken pox vaccine, and people that chose not to get their kids vaccinated shouldn't be vilified for that decision.
Tell you the truth, if we, as a society, keep trying too hard to eliminate even the most mundane and non-life-threatening diseases, eventually we're just heading down a dangerous and frightening path. Our bodies will no longer be able to fight off ANYthing. |
relatively is the word that concerns me. When you know of a child who was blinded because of a chickenpox related disease, it's not relatively harmless.
These are possible complications:
* Women who get chickenpox during pregnancy are at risk for congenital infection of the fetus.
* Newborns are at risk for severe infection, if they are exposed and their mothers are not immune.
* A secondary infection of the blisters may occur.
* Encephalitis is a serious, but rare complication.
* Reye's syndrome, pneumonia, myocarditis, and transient arthritis are other possible complications of chickenpox
* Cerebellar ataxia may appear during the recovery phase or later. This is characterized by a very unsteady walk.
* Strep A
As a parent when deciding upon whether or not to give my child the vaccine, I decided not to play Russian roulette with my child's health.
Although most people recover from chickenpox uneventfully or with a few minor scars, a small percentage suffer more serious complications. Each year in the United States, 4,000 to 9,000 persons are hospitalized with chickenpox, and up to 100 persons die. Those at highest risk for complications are newborns, persons with weakened immune systems, and adults. Although adults make up fewer than 5% of chickenpox cases in the United States, they account for half of the deaths from the disease.
The most common complications of chickenpox are skin infections and pneumonia. Other complications are encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) and hepatitis. Chickenpox can also lead to severe problems in pregnant women, causing stillbirths, birth defects, or infection of the newborn during childbirth.
If I had not vaccinated my children, they would not be immune, because I have not met anyone in the last 14 years who has had chicken pox to be able to infect my children. While you make think that's good, and they don't need the vaccination, think about this: The only person I have met with chicken pox was a 4 year old child. I was talking with his mom and him for 45 minutes, thinking that the child had a bad case of childhood acne. The mom then tells me he has chicken pox. Most people assume that you have had the disease or that you have been vaccinated. If I was pregnant at the time, that chance encounter could have had extremely serious repercussions. Why would I take chances with that? Sorry you're dead, honey, but it's a relatively harmless disease.
More simply put, even if it's relatively harmless, it can be hell for a week. Why have your children suffer just so they can get it the natural way? I can't stand a few mosquitoes bites, much less a whole body full of oozing blisters, so why would I think that's ok for my child to deal with? |
I consider it fear mongering, and nothing in my experiences, (or 99.9999% of the experiences of others) has worked to change my opinion of this. We've survived long enough without having to vaccinate against things that have such a tiny, tiny relative danger (100 per year, in a country of 300 million?), that I just don't see the point now. However, it's moot. Most people ARE being vaccinated now, and because of that, the dangers are getting even stronger. Not for children, perhaps, but for people that don't or won't get vaccinated. The more we do to wipe out disease, the more we seem to get sicker and have more diseases to worry about. But c'est la vie. |
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09/11/2009 03:42:35 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
We're looking at having more adults have problems in the future because we're vaccinating against a 'disease' that is primarily relatively harmless to begin with, but the convenience and ease of mind that the vaccine brings parents that no longer have to worry about a week or two of fevers and miserableness and scratching and the lessening of cosmetic damage from pox scars is not something that can be easily dismissed. |
Having the disease of chickenpox (at any age) makes it possible for you to develop shingles later on, and I assure you that is not exactly a relatively harmless" experience.
As mentioned, "seasonal" influenza kills some 500,000 in an average year; the 1918 pandemic killed something like 20 million, or about 10% of the world's population at the time. |
Hey, whatever, the world has moved on and people get immunized for everything now, and we live in a disease-free utopia :D |
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09/11/2009 03:43:55 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by karmat:
having had chicken pox as an adult (22), I can assure you it was *not* relatively harmless. my sister was 27 at the time and also had them (how we escaped them as a child is anyone's guess), and was even more miserable than I was. the doctor told my sister that she had a severe case of chicken pox, but, presumably, due to her age it was also shingles. |
I wasn't talking about getting them as an adult as relatively harmless, and the chances OF getting them as an adult are still very small. As I said, I'm not against immunizing, I just don't think it's as important as the fear mongering makes it seem.
ETA: I do believe that people should be immunized for it if they haven't had it by the time they hit post-adolescence, or whenever it does start to become a more dangerous occurence. However, that would be for the medical profession to decide.
Message edited by author 2009-09-11 15:45:22. |
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09/11/2009 03:45:46 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
... if we, as a society, keep trying too hard to eliminate even the most mundane and non-life-threatening diseases, eventually we're just heading down a dangerous and frightening path. Our bodies will no longer be able to fight off ANYthing. |
Hey, I'll bet that's what happened to the invading aliens in War Of The Worlds. We'd better not plan on invading any other planets. |
What (fictionously) happened to those aliens is excatly what happenned to the europeans when they invaded america (Bonus points for them bringing new disease to the native americans at the same time). But I'm not sure the situation was caused by their level of medecine. It's just normal consequences of contact with a brand new environement.
Message edited by author 2009-09-11 15:46:19. |
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09/11/2009 04:01:07 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by merchillio:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
... if we, as a society, keep trying too hard to eliminate even the most mundane and non-life-threatening diseases, eventually we're just heading down a dangerous and frightening path. Our bodies will no longer be able to fight off ANYthing. |
Hey, I'll bet that's what happened to the invading aliens in War Of The Worlds. We'd better not plan on invading any other planets. |
What (fictionously) happened to those aliens is excatly what happenned to the europeans when they invaded america (Bonus points for them bringing new disease to the native americans at the same time). But I'm not sure the situation was caused by their level of medecine. It's just normal consequences of contact with a brand new environement. |
Sure, rain on my parade. :-(
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09/11/2009 04:42:31 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by merchillio:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
... if we, as a society, keep trying too hard to eliminate even the most mundane and non-life-threatening diseases, eventually we're just heading down a dangerous and frightening path. Our bodies will no longer be able to fight off ANYthing. |
Hey, I'll bet that's what happened to the invading aliens in War Of The Worlds. We'd better not plan on invading any other planets. |
What (fictionously) happened to those aliens is excatly what happenned to the europeans when they invaded america (Bonus points for them bringing new disease to the native americans at the same time). But I'm not sure the situation was caused by their level of medecine. It's just normal consequences of contact with a brand new environement. |
Sure, rain on my parade. :-( |
Wasn't there a song about that? "Raindrops keep fallin' on Slip's Parade" ? or somethng like that? |
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09/11/2009 04:51:20 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by merchillio:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by merchillio:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
... if we, as a society, keep trying too hard to eliminate even the most mundane and non-life-threatening diseases, eventually we're just heading down a dangerous and frightening path. Our bodies will no longer be able to fight off ANYthing. |
Hey, I'll bet that's what happened to the invading aliens in War Of The Worlds. We'd better not plan on invading any other planets. |
What (fictionously) happened to those aliens is excatly what happenned to the europeans when they invaded america (Bonus points for them bringing new disease to the native americans at the same time). But I'm not sure the situation was caused by their level of medecine. It's just normal consequences of contact with a brand new environement. |
Sure, rain on my parade. :-( |
Wasn't there a song about that? "Raindrops keep fallin' on Slip's Parade" ? or somethng like that? |
Raindrops falling on Slip's Parade
But that doesn't mean his posts will not be a tirade,
crying's not for him
No
You're never gonna stop the Slip's mental draining
your chance is slim
It's just a part of being... hi-i-iim. |
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09/11/2009 05:40:26 PM · #87 |
swine flu paranoia
(not my photo)
Message edited by author 2009-09-11 17:49:17. |
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09/22/2009 06:26:55 AM · #88 |
.
Message edited by author 2009-09-22 06:27:18. |
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09/23/2009 11:26:21 PM · #89 |
| Swine Flu Paranoia...? yeap...so this may answer all your questions regarding the creation of swine flu... //typobounty.com/Funny/Swine_Flu_2.htm |
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09/24/2009 02:02:46 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by AlwaysGreen:
Swine Flu Paranoia...? yeap...so this may answer all your questions regarding the creation of swine flu... //typobounty.com/Funny/Swine_Flu_2.htm |
Better yet......Do I have Swine Flu? |
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09/24/2009 02:12:05 PM · #91 |
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09/24/2009 03:01:44 PM · #92 |
Since seasonal flu shots are recommended for those most at risk of exposure, I would certainly expect the same population to be more likely to contract a related strain for which they'd have no immunity. |
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09/24/2009 03:45:51 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Since seasonal flu shots are recommended for those most at risk of exposure, I would certainly expect the same population to be more likely to contract a related strain for which they'd have no immunity. |
Not trying to defend the doctors' research, but in Canada, if you want the shot, you get it, whether or not you're more at risk.
The article doesn't make much sense unless you look at flu as similar to poison ivy in that the more often you get it, the more susceptible you are (at least I heard that somewhere).
At any rate. I'm no doctor, so I can't argue with the writers of the article, or the doctors who refute it. The article hasn't passed peer revue, so it may well be bunk. But I thought I'd fuel the fire of paranoia a bit anyway. ;-)
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09/24/2009 04:20:38 PM · #94 |
| i got the flu now. i bet its swine flu. im probably gonna die. too bad i didnt get the shot ***giggles and runs away*** |
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09/24/2009 04:31:51 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by LadyK:
i got the flu now. i bet its swine flu. im probably gonna die. too bad i didnt get the shot ***giggles and runs away*** |
LOL. I'm not worried about getting any sort of flu, personally. I take a demented joy in pain, especially when it involves simultaneous diarrhea and puking. I'm just worried for my younger daughter (and wife), who has seizures if she gets sick. If my older daughter got it, she probably wouldn't even notice! :-D
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09/24/2009 04:32:11 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Since seasonal flu shots are recommended for those most at risk of exposure, I would certainly expect the same population to be more likely to contract a related strain for which they'd have no immunity. |
...in Canada, if you want the shot, you get it, whether or not you're more at risk. |
Same here. I didn't say you couldn't. Vaccinations (for many diseases) are actively encouraged (if not mandated) for first responders, medical staff and others who would be most likely to come in contact with that disease. So now we've got a novel strain without the immunity of prior vaccines or infections. It only stands to reason that those same people who were more likely to come in contact with flu in general (and therefore those most likely to be vaccinated) would show a higher infection rate now. |
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09/24/2009 04:36:09 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by LadyK:
i got the flu now. i bet its swine flu. im probably gonna die. too bad i didnt get the shot ***giggles and runs away*** |
LOL. I'm not worried about getting any sort of flu, personally. I take a demented joy in pain, especially when it involves simultaneous diarrhea and puking. I'm just worried for my younger daughter (and wife), who has seizures if she gets sick. If my older daughter got it, she probably wouldn't even notice! :-D |
im not real worried about being sick, other then the sore nose that comes with it. but what if the airlines do something lame like not let sick people fly? can they do that? im supposed to go to the vegas photoshop conference next wednesday |
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09/24/2009 04:36:47 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
... more likely to come in contact with flu in general (and therefore those most likely to be vaccinated) would show a higher infection rate now. |
I see. I don't the article mentioned the social makeup of the Canadian study group, only that there were 2,000 people. Anyway, pretty meaningless unless it passes peer review.
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09/24/2009 04:38:50 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by LadyK:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by LadyK:
i got the flu now. i bet its swine flu. im probably gonna die. too bad i didnt get the shot ***giggles and runs away*** |
LOL. I'm not worried about getting any sort of flu, personally. I take a demented joy in pain, especially when it involves simultaneous diarrhea and puking. I'm just worried for my younger daughter (and wife), who has seizures if she gets sick. If my older daughter got it, she probably wouldn't even notice! :-D |
im not real worried about being sick, other then the sore nose that comes with it. but what if the airlines do something lame like not let sick people fly? can they do that? im supposed to go to the vegas photoshop conference next wednesday |
I think Toronto's Pearson Airport put in body temperature detectors during the SARS outbreak. I don't know what they did to people who didn't pass, however.
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09/24/2009 04:39:43 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by LadyK:
... what if the airlines do something lame like not let sick people fly? can they do that? im supposed to go to the vegas photoshop conference next wednesday |
If you're no longer coughing/sneezing you should be good to go. You can always wear one of those surgical alpha-channels (Photoshop humor) ... :-) |
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