| Author | Thread |
|
|
09/24/2009 02:24:41 PM · #51 |
I have 100 percent feedback. If he took the chance on that...then would that be a bad move on his part?
As for the brokerage fee, I have no idea what that is. I never charged anything other than shipping.
Most ebay pages say "If you want a refund, do so in 3 days. Must pay shipping. (And sometimes, if buying from a store, pay a re-stocking fee.)
The reason I don't put 100 percent of the blame on myself is that as far as I know, I DID send an Ai-s lens (Not being too familiar with Ai and Ai-s). The reason I sold it as an Ai-s lens was because I bought it as an Ai-s lens on ebay. Perhaps I was dooped first, but I was none the wiser. I sold it as an Ai-s. Being very skeptical, I wonder if he received the lens and decided that he didn't want it or replaced it with an Ai lens instead etc. All these things going in my head about how HE could now scam me. Ebay support has said, pretty much, buyer beware.
AND...if someone from Canada can tell me what a brokerage fee is I'd be happy. I've sent stuff to Canada and family and friends have never paid these fees he's talking about. Shipping was less than 10USD. I know 10 bucks can be little for some and a lot for others, but...I guess you could say I wish he was a little nicer about the situation SINCE ebay says there are no refund policies in place.
I'll contact ebay about this and see what they have to say. I understand that  Simms is trying to be objective. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:26:09 PM · #52 |
| To be honest, there is no guarantee that you will get the same lens back, so do not do any refunding, any of that until you have that lens in your possession and oyu are positive its the right one (if refunding him is the route you choose, I am still of the mind set that its just an expensive lesson for the buyer) |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:30:05 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I stand by my previous statements. Dude obviously had a question in his mind about what he was bidding on and wasn't 100%, but didn't wait for an answer. |
I don't know how anyone thinks this is a legitimate argument. So if I had said i was selling a lens + lens hood and had stock pictures of each and for some odd reason a buyer asked me if the lens hood was actually included. Then he wins and I send him just the lens, it's his fault because he didn't get a response?!
So we cannot trust anything anyone posts as a seller and must question if everything they are selling, they are actually selling. I can see if the -s part was never included and there was no way of knowing, but if you took this to court, the seller would lose without getting a chance to defend oneself.
Now I dont know about this brokerage charge, but it's only fair that YOU take the lose of shipping charges cause YOU wrongly listed an item, i'm fairly certain ebay would agree despite what you have stated in this thread. Not trying to be harsh, but if we're trying to hold true to integrity, there's only one option here.
|
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:30:07 PM · #54 |
| How much did you end up selling this lens for anyway? This seems like a lot of work on your part (and I can understand why you are concerned about your rep and all). |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:31:19 PM · #55 |
| You goofed. Even if you didn't do it on purpose, you goofed in not being sure of what you were selling. Chalk it up as a lesson learned and pay the consequences. Unfortunately, it's one of those lessons you learn the hard way. I'd rather take the chance that I'm being scammed because I didn't pay attention, than to go around thinking that I scammed someone else. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:33:21 PM · #56 |
Silly question - does anyone know if EXIF data in files record the serial number of a lens like they do a camera body - I know my EXIF data has lots of data such as lens type, whether or not a teleconvertor was used, focal length etc.. have you anything like that in RAW you could mine out the serial number with?
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 14:34:06. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:35:13 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Silly question - does anyone know if EXIF files record the serial number of a lens like they do a camera body - I know my EXIF files have lots of data such as lens type, whether or not a teleconvertor was used, focal length etc.. have you anything like that in RAW you could mine out the serial number with? |
AI-S lenses are old MF Nikkor lenses (circa 1980s). They do meter on D300, D700, etc, but not even the f-stop information is recorded in the EXIF information. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:35:54 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by Simms:
Silly question - does anyone know if EXIF files record the serial number of a lens like they do a camera body - I know my EXIF files have lots of data such as lens type, whether or not a teleconvertor was used, focal length etc.. have you anything like that in RAW you could mine out the serial number with? |
AI-S lenses are old MF Nikkor lenses (circa 1980s). They do meter on D300, D700, etc, but not even the f-stop information is recorded in the EXIF information. |
Ah well, it was an idea. :( |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:36:03 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
To be honest, there is no guarantee that you will get the same lens back, so do not do any refunding, any of that until you have that lens in your possession and oyu are positive its the right one (if refunding him is the route you choose, I am still of the mind set that its just an expensive lesson for the buyer) |
he cannot be positive it's the right one cause he has no proof (pictures, serial numbers, nothing!), that's sellers fault hands down.
Yea, a lesson for the buyer that he should never trust how an item is listed and should question if everything is what they say it is. I bet if the seller had time to respond, he would have told him it was Ai-s
if we are really gonna get into this, then the seller (NOT know if it was AI or AI-s) should never have posted it in the first place
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 14:38:38. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:36:17 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I am still of the mind set that its just an expensive lesson for the buyer) |
The lesson being what? You can't trust someone even if they have 100% feedback? |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:38:19 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by BeefnCheez:
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I stand by my previous statements. Dude obviously had a question in his mind about what he was bidding on and wasn't 100%, but didn't wait for an answer. |
I don't know how anyone thinks this is a legitimate argument. So if I had said i was selling a lens + lens hood and had stock pictures of each and for some odd reason a buyer asked me if the lens hood was actually included. Then he wins and I send him just the lens, it's his fault because he didn't get a response?!
So we cannot trust anything anyone posts as a seller and must question if everything they are selling, they are actually selling. I can see if the -s part was never included and there was no way of knowing, but if you took this to court, the seller would lose without getting a chance to defend oneself.
|
On a site like ebay, shit is definitely caveat emptor...buyer beware. If he had a question, he should have waited for an answer, instead he bid anyway. If you have a question about an item at the store, do you just buy it and then get mad when its not what you wanted, but didn't wait for an answer? Your loss! If you have a doubt in your mind about what you will be receiving, which obviously this guy did since he questioned it specifically, then he took the risk of bidding on something he wasn't sure about, won, and now hes mad because he didn't wait for an answer and got burnt.
Yeah it sucks that the listing info was wrong in the first place, but honestly, its Ebay...you have to go in there guarded. ESPECIALLY when you are having something that is coming from completely around the world. It almost sounds like the dude bid, then panicked, asked his question, and now is trying to get out of the whole deal. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:39:19 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Niten:
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I am still of the mind set that its just an expensive lesson for the buyer) |
The lesson being what? You can't trust someone even if they have 100% feedback? |
The lesson being that if you have a doubt in your mind about a purchase that will cost you a few hundred bucks and require an item come from the other side of the world, make sure that you get your answers and are 100% satisfied with them before you buy. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:40:56 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
...AND...if someone from Canada can tell me what a brokerage fee is I'd be happy. I've sent stuff to Canada and family and friends have never paid these fees he's talking about.... |
Brokerage fees are why I rarely buy anything via delivery from outside the borders of Canada.
If you mark something as having a value, the shipping company likes to charge a "brokerage fee" to cover costs of getting it across the border, or so they claim. I suppose the government likes to hold things for a bit of a ransom, maybe? If you mark the item as a "gift", there will be no brokerage fee. ;-)
I think Canada is a bitch for doing this. It seems protectionist to me. I know it's worked on me ever since I ordered a $35 dollar shirt from The States and the asshat from DHL showed up at my door asking for $25 brokerage fee before he would give me my package.
If anybody from DPC would like to send me some empty boxes marked as valued at $1,000,000, I'd be happy to turn the delivery guy away when he asks me for the brokerage fee on that puppy. :-D
|
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:44:29 PM · #64 |
I am guessing on this now but this is what I can gather from the thread.
Buyer buys 28mm 2.8 MF AI or AI-S lens for ~100 bucks
Buyer then has to pay $59 in shipping to get it from Japan to Canada
Buyer then has to pay $25 brokerage fee to DHL guy
Buyer realizes he spent close to $200 bucks on a lens that is worth about $100
Buyer flips out and figures a way to get his money back.... |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:44:46 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Originally posted by BeefnCheez:
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I stand by my previous statements. Dude obviously had a question in his mind about what he was bidding on and wasn't 100%, but didn't wait for an answer. |
I don't know how anyone thinks this is a legitimate argument. So if I had said i was selling a lens + lens hood and had stock pictures of each and for some odd reason a buyer asked me if the lens hood was actually included. Then he wins and I send him just the lens, it's his fault because he didn't get a response?!
So we cannot trust anything anyone posts as a seller and must question if everything they are selling, they are actually selling. I can see if the -s part was never included and there was no way of knowing, but if you took this to court, the seller would lose without getting a chance to defend oneself.
|
On a site like ebay, shit is definitely caveat emptor...buyer beware. If he had a question, he should have waited for an answer, instead he bid anyway. If you have a question about an item at the store, do you just buy it and then get mad when its not what you wanted, but didn't wait for an answer? Your loss! If you have a doubt in your mind about what you will be receiving, which obviously this guy did since he questioned it specifically, then he took the risk of bidding on something he wasn't sure about, won, and now hes mad because he didn't wait for an answer and got burnt.
Yeah it sucks that the listing info was wrong in the first place, but honestly, its Ebay...you have to go in there guarded. ESPECIALLY when you are having something that is coming from completely around the world. It almost sounds like the dude bid, then panicked, asked his question, and now is trying to get out of the whole deal. |
you're missing the point. I don't go to the store, see a box that says electric razor, then have a question if it is electric or not, then when it turns out its really just a standard razor it's my fault?
this had nothing to do with his question, because his questions was basically answered by the item description. The issue here is the item was WRONGLY Listed. Again, who fault is it if you buy a box labeled pens, then you go home and they're really PENCILS OGMGGDGKGM!@!! |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:46:36 PM · #66 |
The way these are worded it sounds like if an item is described one way in the auction listing, and the actual item received is not as described, then the buyer has the following options. Didn't find anything about having to ask questions to double-check or confirm that the listing IS what it actually says it is.
eBay: Item not as described
PayPal: Item not as described
|
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:47:12 PM · #67 |
| Then why did he take the time to email the op to verify it? He obviously had some level of doubt. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:48:48 PM · #68 |
| Glad - based off of that stuff, OP should direct the buyer to open up a case through the resolution center it sounds like. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:49:11 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
How much did you end up selling this lens for anyway? This seems like a lot of work on your part (and I can understand why you are concerned about your rep and all). |
He bid 200USD plus shipping.
Trying to be as objective as possible (Which is hard), I see it as both our faults. Ebay policy says I don't have to give a refund. I'm giving a refund (Once the lens is in my hands). Shipping is less than 10USD. I've never heard of a brokerage fee and I'm not paying for something I've never heard of. Who should bear the brunt of the lesson, the seller who re-sold something with the same description he bought it as (And for all he knows is the the lens sent but has become an Ai lens in Canada), or the buyers fault for bidding on an item and not getting what he thought he was getting even though he had the chance to wait, ask, be sure he was getting what he wanted, but decided not to and go for it anyways? I worded those last 2 sentences in a way that makes it sound like he should bear the brunt...can't help it being the seller...
However things turn out, I'm just hoping that shit doesn't get my paypal thrown into cyberspace with some kind of freeze on my account.
ETA: Ebay said that if the buyer wants a refund that it should be done via the resolution center.
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 14:52:07. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 02:59:24 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
The way these are worded it sounds like if an item is described one way in the auction listing, and the actual item received is not as described, then the buyer has the following options. Didn't find anything about having to ask questions to double-check or confirm that the listing IS what it actually says it is.
eBay: Item not as described
PayPal: Item not as described |
second link pretty much says it all, item not as described gets full price and shipping back.. that is all i'm out of this thread, goodluck with your future buying/selling. Always get proof and take pictures! |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 03:22:47 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
Trying to be as objective as possible (Which is hard), I see it as both our faults. Ebay policy says I don't have to give a refund. I'm giving a refund (Once the lens is in my hands). Shipping is less than 10USD. I've never heard of a brokerage fee and I'm not paying for something I've never heard of. Who should bear the brunt of the lesson, the seller who re-sold something with the same description he bought it as (And for all he knows is the the lens sent but has become an Ai lens in Canada), or the buyers fault for bidding on an item and not getting what he thought he was getting even though he had the chance to wait, ask, be sure he was getting what he wanted, but decided not to and go for it anyways? |
The sellers fault... sorry. Regardless if you purchased it off ebay and then sold it on with the same description which was appended to it when you bought it the onus is on you to describe the goods correctly when you put it up for sale. If I buy an item described as ABC when I bought it and it was BCD (slightly different) when I received it I would feel ripped off.
Also, if he could provide you with a receipt of the brokerage fee (he would of received a docket or something with the details of the delivery) I think you would have to honour that and pay it as well.
I know its not what you want to hear, and I am not being my usual belligerent self just for the sake of it, I really think the guy must feel pretty ripped off at the moment. He may of been saving for that lens for ages, and now is out of pocket as a result of your mistake.
One last thing, you ask why did he bid on it whilst waiting for an answer.. You know how it is when you are bidding on ebay for something you REALLY want. And fair plays to the guy he did ask, but he probably decided your Feedback was good so you was selling the lens you described.. You cant blame him for bidding on something he really wanted. I know I dont email the seller on every item I buy on ebay to check they are selling what they described, I am sure you dont either.
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 15:28:31. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 03:33:13 PM · #72 |
you have NO proof what you sold the guy was what you had for sale... if you got scammed - it's your own fault - if you scammed him ( and got called out on it ) - it's your own fault. what more is there to say about it ?
suck it up.
BTW - the brokerage fees are paid by the receiving party, not the sender...
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 15:37:13.
|
|
|
|
09/24/2009 03:34:27 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
Originally posted by bassbone:
How much did you end up selling this lens for anyway? This seems like a lot of work on your part (and I can understand why you are concerned about your rep and all). |
He bid 200USD plus shipping.
Trying to be as objective as possible (Which is hard), I see it as both our faults. Ebay policy says I don't have to give a refund. I'm giving a refund (Once the lens is in my hands). Shipping is less than 10USD. I've never heard of a brokerage fee and I'm not paying for something I've never heard of. Who should bear the brunt of the lesson, the seller who re-sold something with the same description he bought it as (And for all he knows is the the lens sent but has become an Ai lens in Canada), or the buyers fault for bidding on an item and not getting what he thought he was getting even though he had the chance to wait, ask, be sure he was getting what he wanted, but decided not to and go for it anyways? I worded those last 2 sentences in a way that makes it sound like he should bear the brunt...can't help it being the seller...
However things turn out, I'm just hoping that shit doesn't get my paypal thrown into cyberspace with some kind of freeze on my account.
ETA: Ebay said that if the buyer wants a refund that it should be done via the resolution center. |
Well, it sounds like you've already made your decision and posted here in the hopes we'd make your conscience feel better.
Sorry, I do sympathise with you and see your viewpoint but I'm leaning toward the buyer's side. You said you sold it as what you thought you'd bought. If you'd discovered, right after buying, that it wasn't as advertised how would you have felt and reacted? I imagine you wouldn't have been totally happy.
But the point's moot in the current discussion because you didn't discover it, instead reselling the item with the wrong description.
The buyer did attempt to check what he was bidding on but got no response. He tried to do his homework. He probably figured that you'd simply tell him the same as your description already showed. Intentionally or not, the item sent was not the item advertised, plain and simple. Refund his money, get your lens back, and learn some valuable lessons to apply the next time you sell on Ebay.
Google brokerage fees. Items coming into Canada may be subject to various sales taxes and customs fees. Basically, they charge varying import fees on items that are produced in Canada, to try to encourage you to buy Canadian. (Yes, protectionism.) The person receiving the package from customs, the post office or wherever, depending on the shipping method, has to pay the fees before they can claim the parcel. If you're dealing with a door-to-door shipping firm they will charge you a brokerage fee which includes all charges due as well as a fee for their handling of it. Often the charge is much higher than the customs fees.
Yes, being aware of brokerage fees IS the responsibility of the buyer, however it's good business sense for the seller to be aware as well, and I always appreciate it when sellers add a note that customers should check if this fee's applicable to them.
Yeah, if this were me I'd be trying to find ways to justify not being out of pocket but I think, in the end, I'd refund, and sleep well :)
edited to correct a wrong word
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 22:24:53. |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 04:05:20 PM · #74 |
This will drag on ad infinitum, who's right, who's wrong. Refund or no refund. It will become a bitter, twisted rant that refuses to die and to be resurrected every time Ebay is mentioned on site.
I have made an earlier comment for what it was worth. Others have said the same thing. Now, I feel you need to sort this out.
1. Description was wrong, based on your original purchase, not on actual confirmation of serial number.
2. Stock photo, you guessed what you had was the same as the stock photo. Take your own photos! for listing on Ebay.
3. Buyer asked a question, didn't get an answer and bought item in good faith based on feedback and your description. Naive perhaps, but Ebay is based on goodwill and fair trading...although there are many who have had bad experiences.
4. Request lens be posted back, check it on arrival and then refund money and any added expenses to buyer. He bought in good faith and trusted you.
5. Cut your losses and move on. Relisted the lens correctly to recoup some of the losses and learn a lesson for future dealing.
That's it, all I have to say, from an Ebay buyer and Seller with 600+ 100% feedback:) |
|
|
|
09/24/2009 04:32:51 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by SteveJ:
...
5. Cut your losses and move on. Relisted the lens correctly to recoup some of the losses and learn a lesson for future dealing.
That's it, all I have to say, from an Ebay buyer and Seller with 600+ 100% feedback:) |
I agree, except if he refunds the entire cost plus shipping, then the buyer should also consider it a "misunderstanding/mistake" and remove negative feedback, or amend it to indicate that the mistake had been corrected at zero cost to the buyer. |
|
