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09/23/2009 11:28:40 AM · #1 |
So I bought a lens that was advertised as a Nikon 28mm f2/8 Ai-s.
A few months later, I no longer needed it and put it up with the same description and used a stock image.
In the description I explain that optics are crystal clear and very little to no wear and tear on the body.
A potential bidder asked if this was Ai-s or Ai (And to be honest I wasn't sure what the difference was)
I couldn't answer the question before the bidding was over and the buyer made a bid and won anyways.
Before shipping I did a side by side comparison with other images I found on Ken Rockwell's site.
I was pretty sure I sold him the Ai-s. (However I'm still not sure what makes one better than the other)
He received the item today and sent a msg saying he was "Displeased and feel mislead. Why are the serial numbers in the photo different than the actual lens? I don't believe this is an Ai-s but rather Ai. Explain!"
I did a quick check of my purchase history for when I bought the lens. It says Ai-s. Not familiar with whether I originally received an Ai or Ai-s, I simple sold it as I bought it. Perhaps I was dooped long before. I sent him a nice message back that there was no intention of misleading, that I was sure that it was an Ai-s lens and that I did a comparison between the lenses on Ken Rockwell's site.
He replies with "You didn't do your homework then. I can see the difference right away. I would have not bid on this item had I known it was Ai since I can get Ai brand new for the same price you sold it to me on ebay, at my local camera shop." He feels particularly mislead by the stock photo of the lens (I was using stock photo for a lens I was sure I had).
So...I contact ebay support. I didn't want to give in to anything too soon. I asked him first to take photos of the lens and point out the differences. Ebay support took a look at my listing and said "We're happy you are trying to work this out amicably. If you are worries that you will receive a different item back, you do not have to give a refund on this item." They go more into detail about ending things on a good note. From the communication I'm getting from him, he seems very upset even though I assured him that we would find a solution to the problem and that THAT solution may end up in a refund.
My concern is that ME without knowing for sure now (I was sure it was Ai-s, but only because that's how I bought it and never questioned it.) I'm worried that a different lens will be shipped back to me. Ebay says that this IS a concern some have to bring it up with Safety and Trust if it does. I will say that I don't want to refund the lens (The bidder could've waited for me to re-up the item after it ended and ask for photos of the actual item (For previous items I actually did video).
So, what does the DCP community think? |
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09/23/2009 11:40:38 AM · #2 |
If you advertised it as AI-s and it isn't, it's your fault, refund the man and get your item back. If you are worried you will get a different item back, then you better have photos of the item before you sold it to him (that confirm it is AI-s, or the same item). Quite silly to sell something without showing pictures of it or at least taking pictures of it.
The burden of proof is on you if you sold as AI-s and you do not have proof (pictures) that it was indeed AI-s. Sucks, but you gotta be a little more careful like HE was when receiving an item.
Anecdote: I had the same happen to me actually. Someone listed an 18-55 as IS with stock photo and stock info (with a serial number confirming IS) and when I received it, it was not IS. They offered to refund the money, but I got lazy and thought I could resell it for more, so I kept it. Bought the kit with the IS lens anyways.
Message edited by author 2009-09-23 11:44:36. |
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09/23/2009 11:43:45 AM · #3 |
Agreed, offer a refund and move on. Question I'd have though is whether there would be a way to retract the negative feedback in the event the transaction was "righted".
It happens and there is no point in beating yourself up. Live and learn. |
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09/23/2009 11:48:32 AM · #4 |
too bad you didn't jott the serial number down before you sent it off...
SOoL i'm afraid
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09/23/2009 11:50:10 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Agreed, offer a refund and move on. Question I'd have though is whether there would be a way to retract the negative feedback in the event the transaction was "righted".
It happens and there is no point in beating yourself up. Live and learn. |
I'm not sure, but I believe you get a chance to give feedback on the feedback, and simple saying that it was a mistake and refund given should clear it up for most reasonable folks. |
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09/23/2009 11:50:38 AM · #6 |
Agree, not sure why you didn't just take a photo of it and stick that up. But then again, he should of waited for an answer before buying, but in this case the blame lies squarely on your shoulders.
However, the fact you stole a photo is a bit naughty as well - especially after all those threads on here we see. |
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09/23/2009 11:51:21 AM · #7 |
I would also take into account the buyers feedback/rating...If he has good feedback in the past I would offer a refund, if his feedback shows negative comments then I would question whether or not he will send a different item back.
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09/23/2009 11:51:45 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by BeefnCheez:
If you advertised it as AI-s and it isn't, it's your fault, refund the man and get your item back. If you are worried you will get a different item back, then you better have photos of the item before you sold it to him (that confirm it is AI-s, or the same item). Quite silly to sell something without showing pictures of it or at least taking pictures of it.
The burden of proof is on you if you sold as AI-s and you do not have proof (pictures) that it was indeed AI-s. Sucks, but you gotta be a little more careful like HE was when receiving an item.
Anecdote: I had the same happen to me actually. Someone listed an 18-55 as IS with stock photo and stock info (with a serial number confirming IS) and when I received it, it was not IS. They offered to refund the money, but I got lazy and thought I could resell it for more, so I kept it. Bought the kit with the IS lens anyways. |
Any item I've sold for less than a couple 100USD I've always used stock image. I've sold 3 lenses (DX lenses that are easier to ID since I have their original boxes etc.). This was an old lens (In good condition) that I thought someone would just buy for a DOF adapter for their video cameras. Guess not.
No negative feedback was posted (Yet!). Ebay support seems to think I should wait for photos. I guess getting the item back and re-listing it would be best. BUT what happens if I get it back and it IS and Ai-s?? |
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09/23/2009 11:53:18 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Agree, not sure why you didn't just take a photo of it and stick that up. But then again, he should of waited for an answer before buying, but in this case the blame lies squarely on your shoulders.
However, the fact you stole a photo is a bit naughty as well - especially after all those threads on here we see. |
The stock photography comes with putting it up on ebay. They offer the photo.
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09/23/2009 12:01:44 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
BUT what happens if I get it back and it IS and Ai-s?? |
then you ask yourself why a person would go through so much trouble. Maybe he didn't want to buy it in the first place, but if you are getting pictures beforehand then I guess that will cancel it out |
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09/23/2009 12:03:41 PM · #11 |
| I have the same 28mm Nikon lens (bought on ebay, and advertised as 'AI-S') and I *still* can't figure out if it's AI or AI-S! |
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09/23/2009 12:12:53 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
No negative feedback was posted (Yet!). Ebay support seems to think I should wait for photos. I guess getting the item back and re-listing it would be best. BUT what happens if I get it back and it IS and Ai-s?? |
Unfortunately you don't really know what you sold so there's probably not much you can do except learn from the experience. |
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09/23/2009 12:40:41 PM · #13 |
This Page explains some differences between Ai vs. Ais.
Another on Nikkor Lens mounts.
It seems an easy way to identify the difference is that Ais have the smallest aperture allowed designated orange.
From the first article.
"Is AIS Better than AI? Not often!
AIS lenses offer minor advantages on the Nikon FA, 2000, and 2020 ONLY, that's it! On these THREE cameras, AIS lenses allow use of the "HI" program exposure, giving higher shutter speeds with lenses longer than 135 when the camera is set on PROGRAM. THAT'S IT FOLKS. Whoopdedoo. The later AF cameras usually replaced this feature with a program shift.
The current lineup of Nikon AF bodies makes NO distinctions between AI , AIS, or AI'd lenses in terms of features or metering options (the F4 did, but it's discontinued).
Read it again, it's important: The current lineup of Nikon AF bodies makes NO distinctions between AI , AIS, or AI'd lenses in terms of features or metering options(the F4 did, but it's discontinued). "
I can see the buyer's point of not getting what they saw, but it seems unless he has an FA, 2000 or 2020 it should not make a functional difference. i would probably offer a refund though. Unless you have images of the actual lens with orange color designated for the smallest aperture, in which case you sold him the AIS lens you advertised.
ETA: It seems that if you did sell him an Ai lens instead of an Ais lens, you sold him a lens with the same functionality for a DSLR almost all Nikon bodies, but you also sold him a lens that has BETTER build quality than what you advertised. It seems that the Ais lenses which were built later than Ai, were made lighter and more economically than Ai lenses.
But that is just what the internet told me. :)
Message edited by author 2009-09-23 13:10:29. |
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09/23/2009 01:08:10 PM · #14 |
Without having taken or used a photo of the actual item I'd agree that you are SOoL.
What is the price difference? is it huge or are we just talking a few bucks?
Message edited by author 2009-09-23 13:10:17. |
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09/23/2009 02:51:55 PM · #15 |
Bad news for you and the buyer if it was not as advertised. You have lost a sale, got a whole load of bother and upset a fellow ebayer. He has the disappointment of getting something the post which has turned out to be not quite as described and bought.
Always take a photo of the item you are selling, don't trust a stock photo to be exactly as expected, I think you learnt this now.
Try to settle amicably, but be careful that this person isn't trying to palm off an old lens on you. If you had taken a photo, you would have been able to submit it to ebay so they could compare the photos.
Hope it all works out okay for you both:) |
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09/23/2009 02:53:14 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
Originally posted by Simms:
Agree, not sure why you didn't just take a photo of it and stick that up. But then again, he should of waited for an answer before buying, but in this case the blame lies squarely on your shoulders.
However, the fact you stole a photo is a bit naughty as well - especially after all those threads on here we see. |
The stock photography comes with putting it up on ebay. They offer the photo. |
In that case accept my apologies.
Sorry :( |
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09/23/2009 03:01:35 PM · #17 |
I think the best plan of action is:
1. Send him the link about AIs being no different than AI really.
2. Check his feedback and all that jazz and make sure he doesn't have a reputation of doing this.
3. If he doesn't seem scammish, ask him to send the lens back to you, certified, and insured.
4. Once you receive the lens, make sure it works, and EVERYTHING is still in the box (if sent with a box)
5. If all is legit, send him back his money.
DO NOT pay for the shipping, do not reimburse him for the insurance, etc.
But to be honest, he was unsure of what he was bidding on so he hsouldn't have bid, so his loss really.
Message edited by author 2009-09-23 15:02:46. |
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09/23/2009 03:11:57 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I think the best plan of action is:
1. Send him the link about AIs being no different than AI really.
2. Check his feedback and all that jazz and make sure he doesn't have a reputation of doing this.
3. If he doesn't seem scammish, ask him to send the lens back to you, certified, and insured.
4. Once you receive the lens, make sure it works, and EVERYTHING is still in the box (if sent with a box)
5. If all is legit, send him back his money.
DO NOT pay for the shipping, do not reimburse him for the insurance, etc.
But to be honest, he was unsure of what he was bidding on so he hsouldn't have bid, so his loss really. |
I agree with AJ |
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09/23/2009 03:13:43 PM · #19 |
| Frisca - you might be the first person on this website to ever utter those words. |
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09/23/2009 03:27:07 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by jdannels:
This Page explains some differences between Ai vs. Ais.
Another on Nikkor Lens mounts.
It seems an easy way to identify the difference is that Ais have the smallest aperture allowed designated orange.
From the first article.
"Is AIS Better than AI? Not often!
AIS lenses offer minor advantages on the Nikon FA, 2000, and 2020 ONLY, that's it! On these THREE cameras, AIS lenses allow use of the "HI" program exposure, giving higher shutter speeds with lenses longer than 135 when the camera is set on PROGRAM. THAT'S IT FOLKS. Whoopdedoo. The later AF cameras usually replaced this feature with a program shift.
The current lineup of Nikon AF bodies makes NO distinctions between AI , AIS, or AI'd lenses in terms of features or metering options (the F4 did, but it's discontinued).
Read it again, it's important: The current lineup of Nikon AF bodies makes NO distinctions between AI , AIS, or AI'd lenses in terms of features or metering options(the F4 did, but it's discontinued). "
I can see the buyer's point of not getting what they saw, but it seems unless he has an FA, 2000 or 2020 it should not make a functional difference. i would probably offer a refund though. Unless you have images of the actual lens with orange color designated for the smallest aperture, in which case you sold him the AIS lens you advertised.
ETA: It seems that if you did sell him an Ai lens instead of an Ais lens, you sold him a lens with the same functionality for a DSLR almost all Nikon bodies, but you also sold him a lens that has BETTER build quality than what you advertised. It seems that the Ais lenses which were built later than Ai, were made lighter and more economically than Ai lenses.
But that is just what the internet told me. :) |
I always thought that the main difference was in the number of diafragm panels (6 for ai, 9 for ai-s) thus resulting in a better, creamier bokeh on the ai-s'...live and learn...;-) |
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09/23/2009 03:29:16 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Frisca - you might be the first person on this website to ever utter those words. |
I thought about that and considered adding a smart remark to my post but thought better of it. ;) |
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09/23/2009 03:43:41 PM · #22 |
I buy & sell on ebay all the time and the only thing that happened here that might have been questionable was the BUYER buying something he wasn't sure of..... When you buy something on ebay, it clearly states to you that you are agreeing to the purchase and if you have a question about what your bidding on, then don't bid on it with out having that question answered...
Sounds to me like your dealing with someone who's just a real jerk or someone who's going to try & jerk you around... I would simply tell him that you sold what you believed you had... While trying to research his question, the item ended and he bid on it with out the answer to his question.. Obviously he knew there was a question to begin with... I would be concerned also that he may send you back a different lens.. I would be concerned he's sending you back a lens that's broken.. Believe it or not, people make a living out of doing stuff like this... Not one that's Ai or As-i or whatever all that business is... I wouldn't worry about 1 negative feedback either.. Even if you refund him the money, you still have no guarantee he's going to leave you positive feedback.. Keep that in mind..
Also, there is a way to retract feedback but that must be done within 60 or 90 days and you can ask the person who left the negative feedback to make the correction.. And, if you want to file an appeal/dispute with ebay, there's also a time frame of 60 or 90 days so if you end up sending this guy back his money and he doesn't return the lens you originally sent him, then keep that in mind. If you wait to long to file a dispute, it's over no matter what. |
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09/23/2009 03:49:50 PM · #23 |
| Also, one negative feedback item isn't going to kill you (unless its the only one) |
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09/23/2009 03:51:28 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Also, one negative feedback item isn't going to kill you (unless its the only one) |
in which case you just create a new account :) |
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09/23/2009 03:54:26 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by kandykarml:
I buy & sell on ebay all the time and the only thing that happened here that might have been questionable was the BUYER buying something he wasn't sure of..... When you buy something on ebay, it clearly states to you that you are agreeing to the purchase and if you have a question about what your bidding on, then don't bid on it with out having that question answered... |
Isn't it part of the seller's responsibility to ship what is described in the listing as well? I can sympathize with heavyj a little, but the buyer can claim that what was shipped does not match what was listed (pretty sure anyway). It's been a while since I was active on eBay so I can't remember the exact wording of the rules... |
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