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08/11/2009 08:26:47 AM · #501 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Desperately Seeking An Exit Strategy...anyone...? Anyone...? Beuller...? Beuller...? Anyone?
Seriously. Europe? Hong Kong? Singapore? I need ideas... |
If you can talk Obama into going with you, I'll cover the moving expenses. |
He's the best thing that ever happened to you. If McCain/Palin were to have been elected we'd be in a Depression at this point...not that you'd ever admit it even if it were true. You have an intelligent, hard working President that actually cares about people. He jumped into deep water, cut him some slack.
At this point in Bush's first term he was in Crawford, competing for the Presidential Vacation Record AND ignoring memos concerning threats from al Qaeda. Not that that would upset you...but I thought I'd mention it.
Whether you agree with Obama or not...the guy came to play. I don't recall any President in my time that took on so many complex issues to bring back what's become a rapidly sinking country.
You are aware that the country was in unprecedented financial ruin less than a year ago...on the brink of collapse...? You see, as a consultant I had the pleasure of losing not just one job BUT three, along with any planned projects that were on the table. Again, not that you care but the Status Qou doesn't exactly work for me or others that have lost their jobs and heading into financial difficulties but based on you comments I'm just some asshole that's made a series of bad life decisions that I'm solely responsible for. One thing I know for sure...Obama's not that guy that led me to this juncture. He msy not lead me out but things couldn't be worse.
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 09:25:20. |
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08/11/2009 09:13:09 AM · #502 |
| Just curious as to what the right price is to prevent someone from dying? Wondering what you people value (with a monetary figure) human life at, since I see so many complaints in here about taxes going up and greater costs to you and such. |
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08/11/2009 11:08:22 AM · #503 |
| Obama has that covered whth his counciling crew. |
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08/11/2009 11:08:34 AM · #504 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Just curious as to what the right price is to prevent someone from dying? Wondering what you people value (with a monetary figure) human life at, since I see so many complaints in here about taxes going up and greater costs to you and such. |
I don't think life should have a set limit value. In other words bring down the cost of procedures not set a value limit on life. I don't support a single payer system or the HR3200 bill as it is written now; to vague, many loopholes, and the potential of irreversible healthcare damage. It speaks of quality healthcare but does not define the quality.
In 2008, health care spending in the United States reached $2.4 trillion, and was projected to reach $3.1 trillion in 2012. Health care spending is projected to reach $4.3 trillion by 2016. I have to ask myself how can the government provide the same care without cutting covered benefits when they say they can do it for $800 Billion to $1.5 trillion dollars. Have you ever seen a government project stay within budget? I haven't.
We also have to look at the baby boomer generation that are retiring. That has had an impact on rising cost. And they deserve coverage as well every other American.
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 11:12:32. |
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08/11/2009 11:13:30 AM · #505 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by Flash:
My point is that either it is a right or it is a priviledge. Many here present their position as it being a "right". If it is a right, then how can you deny that right to others living elsewhere? If you can, then it must not be a right? So don't continue to present it as such. |
You're ignoring that inconvenient political reality called "state sovereignty." We have no more right to decide for other nations and governments how they provide health care (or not) to their citizens than they have a right to decide for us. So it's a nice philosophical dream, but it doesn't get you very far in the real world. We, U.S. citizens, can only decide this question for ourselves at this point, and I hope we can get beyond the culture of "every man for himself" long enough to conclude that a basic level of health care should be extended to every U.S. citizen. |
A couple of comments;
1. I do not see any difference between your ability to dismiss humanbeings from other countries with little to no healthcare and the position of those who oppose the government takeover of our healthcare system. The argument that we need to be "humanitarian" in our approach to healthcare and provide for all US persons, reads as hypocritical to me when you dismiss others in need - probably even more need.
2. If the argument is simply about a "basic level of healthcare" then a definition of that basic level is required. Is the "basic level" that which is already provided as emergency work? Is it preventative? Does it include expensive surgeries for the elderly with limited life expectancy? Does it include abortion? What exactly is basic health care? And if it is basic, then why would you exclude those from other countries?
3. If the government run healthcare is so complete, then the private clinics springing up in Canada to provide care for those who wish to pay for it (out of pocket), will likely fail - as their product is not needed or wanted. However the fact that they exist at all, demonstrates a market for the service. Perhaps something we should consider.
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08/11/2009 12:46:00 PM · #506 |
Originally posted by Flash:
3. If the government run healthcare is so complete, then the private clinics springing up in Canada to provide care for those who wish to pay for it (out of pocket), will likely fail - as their product is not needed or wanted. However the fact that they exist at all, demonstrates a market for the service. Perhaps something we should consider. |
The "private clinics springing up in Canada" (pure hyperbole, courtesy of Fox "News") are there to provide things such as cosmetic surgery and other elective procedures that aren't covered under our Universal Health Care...which is much better off than you're being led to believe. Not perfect, of course, but I'm much happier paying my family's "premiums" directly in to the system than to an insurance conglomerate whose objective is profit.
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08/11/2009 12:52:43 PM · #507 |
Originally posted by david_c:
I'm much happier paying my family's "premiums" directly in to the system than to an insurance conglomerate whose objective is profit. |
Interesting concept........8>) |
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08/11/2009 01:00:37 PM · #508 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Just curious as to what the right price is to prevent someone from dying? Wondering what you people value (with a monetary figure) human life at, since I see so many complaints in here about taxes going up and greater costs to you and such. |
I don't think life should have a set limit value. In other words bring down the cost of procedures not set a value limit on life. I don't support a single payer system or the HR3200 bill as it is written now; to vague, many loopholes, and the potential of irreversible healthcare damage. It speaks of quality healthcare but does not define the quality.
In 2008, health care spending in the United States reached $2.4 trillion, and was projected to reach $3.1 trillion in 2012. Health care spending is projected to reach $4.3 trillion by 2016. I have to ask myself how can the government provide the same care without cutting covered benefits when they say they can do it for $800 Billion to $1.5 trillion dollars. Have you ever seen a government project stay within budget? I haven't.
We also have to look at the baby boomer generation that are retiring. That has had an impact on rising cost. And they deserve coverage as well every other American. |
Can anyone argue that? But whats the impact of that on you? |
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08/11/2009 01:44:37 PM · #509 |
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by Flash:
3. If the government run healthcare is so complete, then the private clinics springing up in Canada to provide care for those who wish to pay for it (out of pocket), will likely fail - as their product is not needed or wanted. However the fact that they exist at all, demonstrates a market for the service. Perhaps something we should consider. |
The "private clinics springing up in Canada" (pure hyperbole, courtesy of Fox "News") are there to provide things such as cosmetic surgery and other elective procedures that aren't covered under our Universal Health Care...which is much better off than you're being led to believe. Not perfect, of course, but I'm much happier paying my family's "premiums" directly in to the system than to an insurance conglomerate whose objective is profit. |
David -
As a participant in Canada's healthcare system, can you define the "basic" plan. Does it pay for abortions? How are expensive surgeries for the elderly covered? What would be the normal wait time for an elderly (say age 80) person that needed a triple or quadruple bypass? Hip replacement? Knee replacement? Are these procedures provided in a month? 2 months? 3? 4? 6? 8? 12? 18? Are there mandatory annual physicals as a preventative measure? What about treatments for colds and flu, skin rashes, atheletes feet, planters warts, etc etc etc? Do you simply call up your long time family physician and you go within the next few days and have the problem fixed? What about copays? Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? Do you have the option of generic or name brand drugs or must you accept the generic equivilent?
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08/11/2009 03:05:52 PM · #510 |
Not being an official of the Ministry of Health, or a medical professional, I'll do my best to answer some of these points as best I can (but I reserve the right to invoke Slippy's disclaimer), in case these questions aren't rhetorical....
Originally posted by flash:
As a participant in Canada's healthcare system, can you define the "basic" plan. |
"Basic" plan would seem to be a misnomer. There are no differing levels of coverage, unless you opt for additional, private insurance.
Originally posted by flash:
Does it pay for abortions? |
Yes, to the best of my knowledge. Pre- and post- counseling are also covered, if needed, including the education on abortion alternatives (adoption, etc).
Originally posted by flash:
How are expensive surgeries for the elderly covered? |
They are covered by the Health Care system, if they constitute a medical emergency or quality-of-life issues. A face-lift, or other such elective surgery would not be covered.
Originally posted by flash:
What would be the normal wait time for an elderly (say age 80) person that needed a triple or quadruple bypass? |
I cannot say. There would probably be several factors involved...the seriousness of the case, availability of the surgeon, etc.
Originally posted by flash:
Hip replacement? Knee replacement? Are these procedures provided in a month? 2 months? 3? 4? 6? 8? 12? 18? |
My father waited about six weeks after our family physician referred him to the specialist for his hip replacement. He did, however, travel to a hospital outside of his town...about 20 minutes away. There are varying degrees, though...a co-worker of mine needs a knee replacement, and his wait time is 4 months.
Originally posted by flash:
Are there mandatory annual physicals as a preventative measure? |
No, but annual physicals are available to you under the Health Care system.
Originally posted by flash:
What about treatments for colds and flu, skin rashes, atheletes feet, planters warts, etc etc etc? Do you simply call up your long time family physician and you go within the next few days and have the problem fixed? |
Yes. I can usually get an appointment with our family physician within a day or two if there is a non-emergency medical condition. Additionally, there is a 24/7 TeleHealth line that will put you in touch with a registered nurse (at least, here in Ontario).
Originally posted by flash:
What about copays? |
There are no co-pays.
Originally posted by flash:
Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? |
I'll refer you back to my previous reply...not everything is covered, especially not elective procedures. No prescriptions are covered at all, unless you have a benefit plan through your employer, or purchase additional insurance. However, the Canadian government has helped to keep the cost of prescription medication down through regulation of the Pharmaceutical industry, preventing the soaring prices seen in other jurisdictions.
Originally posted by flash:
Do you have the option of generic or name brand drugs or must you accept the generic equivilent? |
You have the option, obviously, since you are the one paying for the medication. In my family's case, our benefit plan (through my employer) covers the generic version minus the pharmacy's dispensing fee (between 0 and 4 dollars, depending on the pharmacy). If we choose, we can pay additional for a name-brand (as my wife does for her contraceptives).
Please don't misinterpret my responses. The Canadian Health Care system is not perfect, it is not a Utopian solution. There are manpower issues, funding issues, regional issues...I'm not going to pretend it's the Answer to the current crisis in the States. I do object to what I consider to be gross mis-characterizations of the Canadian system by certain elements Stateside.
Message edited by author 2009-08-12 07:04:06. |
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08/11/2009 03:16:20 PM · #511 |
Originally posted by david_c:
Not being an official of the Ministry of Health, or a medical professional, I'll do my best to answer some of these points as best I can (but I reserve the right to invoke Slippy's disclaimer), in case these questions aren't rhetorical....
Originally posted by flash:
As a participant in Canada's healthcare system, can you define the "basic" plan. |
"Basic" plan would seem to be a misnomer. There are no differing levels of coverage, unless you opt for additional, private insurance.
Originally posted by flash:
Does it pay for abortions? |
Yes, to the best of my knowledge. Pre- and post- counseling are also covered, if needed, including the education on abortion alternatives (adoption, etc).
Originally posted by flash:
How are expensive surgeries for the elderly covered? |
They are covered by the Health Care system, if they constitute a medical emergency or quality-of-life issues. A face-lift, or other such elective surgery would not be covered.
Originally posted by flash:
What would be the normal wait time for an elderly (say age 80) person that needed a triple or quadruple bypass? |
I cannot say. There would probably be several factors involved...the seriousness of the case, availability of the surgeon, etc.
Originally posted by flash:
Hip replacement? Knee replacement? Are these procedures provided in a month? 2 months? 3? 4? 6? 8? 12? 18? |
My father waited about six weeks after our family physician referred him to the specialist for his hip replacement. He did, however, travel to a hospital outside of his town...about 20 minutes away. There are varying degrees, though...a co-worker of mine needs a knee replacement, and his wait time is 4 months.
Originally posted by flash:
Are there mandatory annual physicals as a preventative measure? |
No, but annual physicals are available to you under the Health Care system.
Originally posted by flash:
What about treatments for colds and flu, skin rashes, atheletes feet, planters warts, etc etc etc? Do you simply call up your long time family physician and you go within the next few days and have the problem fixed? |
Yes. I can usually get an appointment with our family physician within a day or two if there is a non-emergency medical condition. Additionally, there is a 24/7 TeleHealth line that will put you in touch with a registered nurse (at least, here in Ontario).
Originally posted by flash:
What about copays? |
There are no co-pays.
Originally posted by flash:
Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? |
I'll refer you back to my previous reply...not everything is covered, especially not elective procedures. No prescriptions are covered at all, unless you have a benefit plan through your employer, or purchase additional insurance. However, the Canadian goverment has helped to keep the cost of prescription medication down through regualtion of the Pharmaceutical industry, preventing the soaring prices seen in other jurisdictions.
Originally posted by flash:
Do you have the option of generic or name brand drugs or must you accept the generic equivilent? |
You have the option, obviously, since you are the one paying for the medication. In my family's case, our benefit plan (through my employer) covers the generic version minus the pharmacy's dispensing fee (between 0 and 4 dollars, depeding on the pharmacy). If we choose, we can pay additional for a name-brand (as my wife does for her contraceptives).
Please don't misinterpret my responses. The Canadian Health Care system is not perfect, it is not a Utopian solution. There are manpower issues, funding issues, regional issues...I'm not going to pretend it's the Answer to the current crisis in the States. I do object to what I consider to be gross mis-characterizations of the Canadian system by certain elements Stateside. |
what he said
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08/11/2009 03:22:37 PM · #512 |
Originally posted by david_c:
Not being an official of the Ministry of Health, or a medical professional, I'll do my best to answer some of these points as best I can (but I reserve the right to invoke Slippy's disclaimer), in case these questions aren't rhetorical....
Originally posted by flash:
As a participant in Canada's healthcare system, can you define the "basic" plan. |
"Basic" plan would seem to be a misnomer. There are no differing levels of coverage, unless you opt for additional, private insurance.
Originally posted by flash:
Does it pay for abortions? |
Yes, to the best of my knowledge. Pre- and post- counseling are also covered, if needed, including the education on abortion alternatives (adoption, etc).
Originally posted by flash:
How are expensive surgeries for the elderly covered? |
They are covered by the Health Care system, if they constitute a medical emergency or quality-of-life issues. A face-lift, or other such elective surgery would not be covered.
Originally posted by flash:
What would be the normal wait time for an elderly (say age 80) person that needed a triple or quadruple bypass? |
I cannot say. There would probably be several factors involved...the seriousness of the case, availability of the surgeon, etc.
Originally posted by flash:
Hip replacement? Knee replacement? Are these procedures provided in a month? 2 months? 3? 4? 6? 8? 12? 18? |
My father waited about six weeks after our family physician referred him to the specialist for his hip replacement. He did, however, travel to a hospital outside of his town...about 20 minutes away. There are varying degrees, though...a co-worker of mine needs a knee replacement, and his wait time is 4 months.
Originally posted by flash:
Are there mandatory annual physicals as a preventative measure? |
No, but annual physicals are available to you under the Health Care system.
Originally posted by flash:
What about treatments for colds and flu, skin rashes, atheletes feet, planters warts, etc etc etc? Do you simply call up your long time family physician and you go within the next few days and have the problem fixed? |
Yes. I can usually get an appointment with our family physician within a day or two if there is a non-emergency medical condition. Additionally, there is a 24/7 TeleHealth line that will put you in touch with a registered nurse (at least, here in Ontario).
Originally posted by flash:
What about copays? |
There are no co-pays.
Originally posted by flash:
Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? |
I'll refer you back to my previous reply...not everything is covered, especially not elective procedures. No prescriptions are covered at all, unless you have a benefit plan through your employer, or purchase additional insurance. However, the Canadian goverment has helped to keep the cost of prescription medication down through regualtion of the Pharmaceutical industry, preventing the soaring prices seen in other jurisdictions.
Originally posted by flash:
Do you have the option of generic or name brand drugs or must you accept the generic equivilent? |
You have the option, obviously, since you are the one paying for the medication. In my family's case, our benefit plan (through my employer) covers the generic version minus the pharmacy's dispensing fee (between 0 and 4 dollars, depeding on the pharmacy). If we choose, we can pay additional for a name-brand (as my wife does for her contraceptives).
Please don't misinterpret my responses. The Canadian Health Care system is not perfect, it is not a Utopian solution. There are manpower issues, funding issues, regional issues...I'm not going to pretend it's the Answer to the current crisis in the States. I do object to what I consider to be gross mis-characterizations of the Canadian system by certain elements Stateside. |
David -
Much appreciate your time and answers. Thank you. |
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08/11/2009 03:26:59 PM · #513 |
| I have a question on the Canadian system. How do the doctors get paid? Does the govt set their pay rate? Do they get paid per patient? Do they all get paid the same? |
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08/11/2009 03:31:47 PM · #514 |
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by flash:
Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? |
I'll refer you back to my previous reply...not everything is covered, especially not elective procedures. No prescriptions are covered at all, unless you have a benefit plan through your employer, or purchase additional insurance. However, the Canadian goverment has helped to keep the cost of prescription medication down through regualtion of the Pharmaceutical industry, preventing the soaring prices seen in other jurisdictions.
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Just FYI, Quebec, as a province, has mandatory prescription drug coverage. You are obliged to use your insurer's plan, and if you don't have one, you are required to enroll in the Quebec coverage. More info here |
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08/11/2009 03:32:26 PM · #515 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by Flash:
3. If the government run healthcare is so complete, then the private clinics springing up in Canada to provide care for those who wish to pay for it (out of pocket), will likely fail - as their product is not needed or wanted. However the fact that they exist at all, demonstrates a market for the service. Perhaps something we should consider. |
The "private clinics springing up in Canada" (pure hyperbole, courtesy of Fox "News") are there to provide things such as cosmetic surgery and other elective procedures that aren't covered under our Universal Health Care...which is much better off than you're being led to believe. Not perfect, of course, but I'm much happier paying my family's "premiums" directly in to the system than to an insurance conglomerate whose objective is profit. |
David -
As a participant in Canada's healthcare system, can you define the "basic" plan. Does it pay for abortions? How are expensive surgeries for the elderly covered? What would be the normal wait time for an elderly (say age 80) person that needed a triple or quadruple bypass? Hip replacement? Knee replacement? Are these procedures provided in a month? 2 months? 3? 4? 6? 8? 12? 18? Are there mandatory annual physicals as a preventative measure? What about treatments for colds and flu, skin rashes, atheletes feet, planters warts, etc etc etc? Do you simply call up your long time family physician and you go within the next few days and have the problem fixed? What about copays? Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? Do you have the option of generic or name brand drugs or must you accept the generic equivilent? |
You seem to think that every medical need is now being addressed in a timely way in the United States, but that just isn't the case. My father had retired to a semi-rural community in Virginia and became ill with some sort of heart ailment. His family physician got him on a waiting list to see a specialist. That waiting list was six months long, and my father died while he was waiting. He was never even diagnosed. When I moved to upstate New York 12 years ago and tried to make an appointment with a gynecologist, the earliest I could get in to see anybody was 7 weeks, and I had a specific issue so several places were really trying to get me in and couldn't get it done for 7 weeks. Even my sister-in-law, who lives on Long Island and has had the same family physician for eons, couldn't get an appointment for a week and a half when she became ill with bronchitis a couple of years ago, so she ended up in the emergency room and was charged $1,200 for the privilege of seeing a doctor for 15 minutes. Actually, it wasn't even the emergency room (and most of that 15 minutes was spent with a nurse). The doctors at the ER directed her to the rapid-care center next door, the less costly alternative to the emergency room.
(As an aside, when she tried to get an itemized bill from the rapid-care center -- $1,200 for a nurse to take her temperature and her blood pressure, and a doctor who spent 2 minutes listening to her cough?? -- they refused to give her one.)
I can only suppose that you have never experienced these kinds of difficulties? |
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08/11/2009 03:33:29 PM · #516 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
You're ignoring that inconvenient political reality called "state sovereignty." We have no more right to decide for other nations and governments how they provide health care (or not) to their citizens than they have a right to decide for us. So it's a nice philosophical dream, but it doesn't get you very far in the real world. We, U.S. citizens, can only decide this question for ourselves at this point, and I hope we can get beyond the culture of "every man for himself" long enough to conclude that a basic level of health care should be extended to every U.S. citizen. |
Judith -
I have long followed the Congo conflict and have posted in a number of threads the atrocities committed. Articles like this bring my point right to the surface. From a humanitarian position, I cannot think of a more pressing healthcare envoirnment than that described. If basic healthcare is a right, then it certainly should be a right for those suffering there. |
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08/11/2009 03:38:14 PM · #517 |
Originally posted by david_c:
Not being an official of the Ministry of Health, or a medical professional, I'll do my best to answer some of these points as best I can (but I reserve the right to invoke Slippy's disclaimer), in case these questions aren't rhetorical....
Originally posted by flash:
As a participant in Canada's healthcare system, can you define the "basic" plan. |
"Basic" plan would seem to be a misnomer. There are no differing levels of coverage, unless you opt for additional, private insurance.
Originally posted by flash:
Does it pay for abortions? |
Yes, to the best of my knowledge. Pre- and post- counseling are also covered, if needed, including the education on abortion alternatives (adoption, etc).
Originally posted by flash:
How are expensive surgeries for the elderly covered? |
They are covered by the Health Care system, if they constitute a medical emergency or quality-of-life issues. A face-lift, or other such elective surgery would not be covered.
Originally posted by flash:
What would be the normal wait time for an elderly (say age 80) person that needed a triple or quadruple bypass? |
I cannot say. There would probably be several factors involved...the seriousness of the case, availability of the surgeon, etc.
Originally posted by flash:
Hip replacement? Knee replacement? Are these procedures provided in a month? 2 months? 3? 4? 6? 8? 12? 18? |
My father waited about six weeks after our family physician referred him to the specialist for his hip replacement. He did, however, travel to a hospital outside of his town...about 20 minutes away. There are varying degrees, though...a co-worker of mine needs a knee replacement, and his wait time is 4 months.
Originally posted by flash:
Are there mandatory annual physicals as a preventative measure? |
No, but annual physicals are available to you under the Health Care system.
Originally posted by flash:
What about treatments for colds and flu, skin rashes, atheletes feet, planters warts, etc etc etc? Do you simply call up your long time family physician and you go within the next few days and have the problem fixed? |
Yes. I can usually get an appointment with our family physician within a day or two if there is a non-emergency medical condition. Additionally, there is a 24/7 TeleHealth line that will put you in touch with a registered nurse (at least, here in Ontario).
Originally posted by flash:
What about copays? |
There are no co-pays.
Originally posted by flash:
Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? |
I'll refer you back to my previous reply...not everything is covered, especially not elective procedures. No prescriptions are covered at all, unless you have a benefit plan through your employer, or purchase additional insurance. However, the Canadian goverment has helped to keep the cost of prescription medication down through regualtion of the Pharmaceutical industry, preventing the soaring prices seen in other jurisdictions.
Originally posted by flash:
Do you have the option of generic or name brand drugs or must you accept the generic equivilent? |
You have the option, obviously, since you are the one paying for the medication. In my family's case, our benefit plan (through my employer) covers the generic version minus the pharmacy's dispensing fee (between 0 and 4 dollars, depeding on the pharmacy). If we choose, we can pay additional for a name-brand (as my wife does for her contraceptives).
Please don't misinterpret my responses. The Canadian Health Care system is not perfect, it is not a Utopian solution. There are manpower issues, funding issues, regional issues...I'm not going to pretend it's the Answer to the current crisis in the States. I do object to what I consider to be gross mis-characterizations of the Canadian system by certain elements Stateside. |
 david_c, first I would like to thank you for taking the time to answer some of our questions as best as you can.
I would like to ask you a few questions if possible.
You stated that the government plan does not include prescriptions but Canadians have access to prescription coverage. How much do those plans cost per month?
Some news media here has reported a shortage of primary doctors in Canada cause a waiting list and in one place a monthly lottery. If a person does not have a PCP their a waiting period to see one? If so, what is the average time?
Do you know, fist hand, of anyone that was denied a procedure because of cost vs. life expectancy? Or as some has put it 'cost of life formula'.
Thanks in advance for providing us with some inside information about your governments system. As I have stated in this thread, we can't believe everything the media is reporting. The left and right has their own agendas while the American people a looking for truthful answers.
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 15:40:16. |
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08/11/2009 03:46:05 PM · #518 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
You're ignoring that inconvenient political reality called "state sovereignty." We have no more right to decide for other nations and governments how they provide health care (or not) to their citizens than they have a right to decide for us. So it's a nice philosophical dream, but it doesn't get you very far in the real world. We, U.S. citizens, can only decide this question for ourselves at this point, and I hope we can get beyond the culture of "every man for himself" long enough to conclude that a basic level of health care should be extended to every U.S. citizen. |
Judith -
I have long followed the Congo conflict and have posted in a number of threads the atrocities committed. Articles like this bring my point right to the surface. From a humanitarian position, I cannot think of a more pressing healthcare envoirnment than that described. If basic healthcare is a right, then it certainly should be a right for those suffering there. |
I agree completely.
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08/11/2009 03:46:17 PM · #519 |
Originally posted by Flash:
David -
Much appreciate your time and answers. Thank you. |
My pleasure. Writing the post reminded me of the day our son was born...my wife went in to labour on January 2nd after midnight. We drove to the hospital, and within a few minutes she was in the delivery room. Her Ob-Gyn was on vacation, but his backup was there in under 30 minutes. During all the pre-natal sessions, my wife had declined sedation...but after 6 hours of intense labour she was calling for the epidural. The on-call anesthesiologist lived a few towns over, but was there in about an hour. Another 6 hours of trying, and the attending physician determined an emergency Caesarian was necessary. My wife was taken in to surgery, the ob-gyn and another surgeon performed the procedure. Perhaps 14 hours after we first got to the hospital, our son was born.
Recovery was brutal, we spent the next 5 or six days in a private room (thanks to my additional coverage). The nurses in the Maternity ward were absolutely awesome, helping us beyond words, caring for A.J. like he was their own. We were exhausted. By the time we were able to leave for home, they sent us home with enough supplies that we wouldn't have to worry for another few days on diapers or formula, and could focus on my wife getting mobile again.
Total bill at the end of all this? $0. If, for no other reason than that experience, I will never cringe when I see the portion of my paycheque that goes to the Province of Ontario for Health Care.
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08/11/2009 03:55:29 PM · #520 |
Originally posted by david_c:
Not being an official of the Ministry of Health, or a medical professional, I'll do my best to answer some of these points as best I can (but I reserve the right to invoke Slippy's disclaimer), in case these questions aren't rhetorical....
Originally posted by flash:
As a participant in Canada's healthcare system, can you define the "basic" plan. |
"Basic" plan would seem to be a misnomer. There are no differing levels of coverage, unless you opt for additional, private insurance.
Originally posted by flash:
Does it pay for abortions? |
Yes, to the best of my knowledge. Pre- and post- counseling are also covered, if needed, including the education on abortion alternatives (adoption, etc).
Originally posted by flash:
How are expensive surgeries for the elderly covered? |
They are covered by the Health Care system, if they constitute a medical emergency or quality-of-life issues. A face-lift, or other such elective surgery would not be covered.
Originally posted by flash:
What would be the normal wait time for an elderly (say age 80) person that needed a triple or quadruple bypass? |
I cannot say. There would probably be several factors involved...the seriousness of the case, availability of the surgeon, etc.
Originally posted by flash:
Hip replacement? Knee replacement? Are these procedures provided in a month? 2 months? 3? 4? 6? 8? 12? 18? |
My father waited about six weeks after our family physician referred him to the specialist for his hip replacement. He did, however, travel to a hospital outside of his town...about 20 minutes away. There are varying degrees, though...a co-worker of mine needs a knee replacement, and his wait time is 4 months.
Originally posted by flash:
Are there mandatory annual physicals as a preventative measure? |
No, but annual physicals are available to you under the Health Care system.
Originally posted by flash:
What about treatments for colds and flu, skin rashes, atheletes feet, planters warts, etc etc etc? Do you simply call up your long time family physician and you go within the next few days and have the problem fixed? |
Yes. I can usually get an appointment with our family physician within a day or two if there is a non-emergency medical condition. Additionally, there is a 24/7 TeleHealth line that will put you in touch with a registered nurse (at least, here in Ontario).
Originally posted by flash:
What about copays? |
There are no co-pays.
Originally posted by flash:
Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? |
I'll refer you back to my previous reply...not everything is covered, especially not elective procedures. No prescriptions are covered at all, unless you have a benefit plan through your employer, or purchase additional insurance. However, the Canadian goverment has helped to keep the cost of prescription medication down through regualtion of the Pharmaceutical industry, preventing the soaring prices seen in other jurisdictions.
Originally posted by flash:
Do you have the option of generic or name brand drugs or must you accept the generic equivilent? |
You have the option, obviously, since you are the one paying for the medication. In my family's case, our benefit plan (through my employer) covers the generic version minus the pharmacy's dispensing fee (between 0 and 4 dollars, depeding on the pharmacy). If we choose, we can pay additional for a name-brand (as my wife does for her contraceptives).
Please don't misinterpret my responses. The Canadian Health Care system is not perfect, it is not a Utopian solution. There are manpower issues, funding issues, regional issues...I'm not going to pretend it's the Answer to the current crisis in the States. I do object to what I consider to be gross mis-characterizations of the Canadian system by certain elements Stateside. |
Joan Rivers won't find a free face-lift up here, but she'll get a hip replacement right away if it's broken & an emergency. If she were Canadian, that is, and I'm damn well not going to marry her so she can become a citizen and benefit from our health care system.
When I say [FREE] below, of course I mean covered by our health care:
My wife gave birth to two daughters, one was premature and required a month in the premie-ward. [FREE]
My younger daughter waited only minutes for an MRI, because it was possibly an emergency. [FREE] Turned out it was not an emergency, but better safe than sorry. My older daughter waited three months for an MRI, because it was just for a 'look-see', and preventative. [FREE]
My friend's dad had a heart attack recently and had bypass surgery shortly after he was admitted to hospital. [FREE]
I've known people who have broken their arm.... treatment...[FREE]
I've known people who have broken their leg.... treatment... [FREE]
I'm not saying Canada's system is better than the U.S.A.'s system, as I don't have enough experience with the U.S.A.'s system...
I'm just relating a few experiences. Call me a liar if you want, but I'm satisfied with the system here so far, and I'm not easily satisfied by anything.
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08/11/2009 04:06:12 PM · #521 |
Originally posted by david_c:
.... The nurses in the Maternity ward were absolutely awesome, helping us beyond words, caring for A.J. like he was their own. We were exhausted. By the time we were able to leave for home, they sent us home with enough supplies that we wouldn't have to worry for another few days on diapers or formula... |
Oh yeah, our nurses in the premie-ward were totally awesome !!!
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08/11/2009 04:20:05 PM · #522 |
Originally posted by pidge:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by flash:
Is everything covered 100%? Including prescriptions? |
I'll refer you back to my previous reply...not everything is covered, especially not elective procedures. No prescriptions are covered at all, unless you have a benefit plan through your employer, or purchase additional insurance. However, the Canadian goverment has helped to keep the cost of prescription medication down through regualtion of the Pharmaceutical industry, preventing the soaring prices seen in other jurisdictions.
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Just FYI, Quebec, as a province, has mandatory prescription drug coverage. You are obliged to use your insurer's plan, and if you don't have one, you are required to enroll in the Quebec coverage. More info here |
From the link you provided I tried to do some calculations on how much prescription drug coverage and cost would Americans if they were set up on a formula like this, here in the US.
Without insurance I would have to pay a little over $700/mo. for my medication. So I'm going to use that as a starting point.
Monthly Deductible : $14.95 (only one deductible no matter how many prescriptions per month)
Monthly Co-Insurance: $224.00 ($700 * 32%)
Monthly Contribution: $79.53
Yearly Premium: $585.00 or $48.75 monthly
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Total monthly cost: $367.23 (for prescription coverage per adult. NOTE: Co-Insurance will vary based on the amount of medication and cost)
Please let me know if I figured that correctly. If so that's more than I pay now for a PPO major medical insurance and prescriptions combined.
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08/11/2009 04:26:30 PM · #523 |
Originally posted by SDW:
david_c, first I would like to thank you for taking the time to answer some of our questions as best as you can.
I would like to ask you a few questions if possible.
You stated that the government plan does not include prescriptions but Canadians have access to prescription coverage. How much do those plans cost per month?
Some news media here has reported a shortage of primary doctors in Canada cause a waiting list and in one place a monthly lottery. If a person does not have a PCP their a waiting period to see one? If so, what is the average time?
Do you know, fist hand, of anyone that was denied a procedure because of cost vs. life expectancy? Or as some has put it 'cost of life formula'.
Thanks in advance for providing us with some inside information about your governments system. As I have stated in this thread, we can't believe everything the media is reporting. The left and right has their own agendas while the American people a looking for truthful answers. |
My family's prescription coverage is through my employer. My parents pay (don't quote me!) $1000 a year for additional prescription coverage that is not as comprehensive as mine.
The shortage of manpower has a lot to do with regional issues...it is very difficult to entice a doctor or a specialist to a remote area, where their earning potential is more limited than in urban centres. Even in my region of Niagara, there are always spots for RNs, GPs, specialists...many med grads are lured to the siren call of the almighty dollar south of the border. A monthly lottery? Haven't heard of that. I'm guessing that PCP means family doctor (as opposed to the drug), and yes...there are waiting lists in some areas for a GP, but there are clinics where anyone can get an appointment, or a referral. We happened to get "lucky" when we moved to the area, a new family doctor was setting up his practice, and he took us on. Of course, my doctor is 10 years younger than me, which stings a bit. :-P
I have never, ever heard of a situation where someone was denied treatment based on their life expectancy. I am unable to say it's never happened, but if this was going on anywhere, I would expect to hear about it in the debate over our Health Care system. Frankly, the very idea is abhorrent, and I don't think Canadians would stand for that. |
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08/11/2009 04:51:59 PM · #524 |
Doctors-wise...
If I get an ear infection or whatever, I'm usually too lazy to make an appointment with my family doctor. Heck, I'm too impatient to make an appointment to have my hair cut, so I sometimes do it myself.
So...
I usually just go to one of the clinics nearby, walk in, and see a doctor within about 15 minutes. He checks me out and writes me a prescription, if needed. I walk across the hall to the pharmacy and buy it. Done
To see the doctor is [FREE], but I pay for my prescription, which is pretty cheap anyway, $20-$30 for ear infection, for example.
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08/11/2009 04:57:05 PM · #525 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Without insurance I would have to pay a little over $700/mo. for my medication. So I'm going to use that as a starting point.
Monthly Deductible : $14.95 (only one deductible no matter how many prescriptions per month)
Monthly Co-Insurance: $224.00 ($700 * 32%)
Monthly Contribution: $79.53
Yearly Premium: $585.00 or $48.75 monthly
------------------------------------------
Total monthly cost: $367.23 (for prescription coverage per adult. NOTE: Co-Insurance will vary based on the amount of medication and cost)
Please let me know if I figured that correctly. If so that's more than I pay now for a PPO major medical insurance and prescriptions combined. |
Hmm... the way i read it, the monthly maximum contribution would be the total out of pocket contribution (79.53, possibly plus the 14.95 for a total of 94.48). In other words, you would pay 32% until you hit that limit, then nothing. You've got 32% of your cost, PLUS the maximum monthly contribution in your formula up there, which doesn't make sense to me.
Can someone in Quebec clarify?
Edit to add: My supposition seems to be upheld by the information found on this page, which states that the maximum annual out of pocket under a private plan is set at $954, which works out to $79.50 per month.
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 17:03:15. |
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