Submit highest quality possible?

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

01/24/2004 09:29:09 PM · #1

Hello All,

What is the best way to submit a challenge photo? This is my first time entering an image and I want to submit the highest quality image that I possibly can. I understand that entries are limited in dimension, as well as a maximum of 150Kb in size, so I need to shrink this raw image down to fit those parameters. However, I want to maintain as much image quality as possible. Is it okay to submit the .jpg file without the non-image data attached? I am cropping the image, then reducing the dimensions to 640x480, but that still creates a file of about 250Kb in size. Therefore, I have to reduce the image quality as well when saving the file. Leaving out the non-image data (I assume this is the EXIF data) reduces the file size a little, but is that acceptable or not?

Regards,
Mick

Seanachai

Canon EOS-20D

01/24/2004 09:36:17 PM · #2

Hey Mick,
Just save the original file for proof. You will be asked to submit the original if you make it to the top ten. Best of Luck to you.

Message edited by author 2004-01-24 21:36:59.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

01/24/2004 09:38:38 PM · #3

I resize my images to 640 pixels on the long side, then in photoshop use the 'Optimize to Filesize' option in 'Save for Web' set to JPEG, no attached colour profile (ICC profile not checked) not progressive and set the target filesize to 147k (It is in the little drop down menu under the > arrow) This almost always gives me a file with plenty of detail, but well within the size limits. After I save it I usually re-apply the exif info to the file (which is why I target 3k under the 150k limit.

01/24/2004 09:38:44 PM · #4

Originally posted by Seanachai:

Hey Mick,
Just save the original file for proof. You will be asked to submit the original if you are make it to the top ten. Best of Luck to you.

Thanks! That's what I suspected. Just wanted to be sure.

Good luck to you too.

01/24/2004 09:45:37 PM · #5

Originally posted by Gordon:

Gordon,

I am currently using version 5 of PhotoShop. I've ordered PhotoShop CS, but it will be a while before it arrives. I'm not sure if v5 has the options you mentioned. If it does I'll give it a try.

Thanks for the tip!

Regards,
Mick

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/25/2004 01:01:02 AM · #6

Originally posted by micknewton:

Originally posted by Gordon:
I resize my images to 640 pixels on the long side, then in photoshop use the 'Optimize to Filesize' option in 'Save for Web' set to JPEG, no attached colour profile (ICC profile not checked) not progressive and set the target filesize to 147k (It is in the little drop down menu under the > arrow) This almost always gives me a file with plenty of detail, but well within the size limits. After I save it I usually re-apply the exif info to the file (which is why I target 3k under the 150k limit.

Gordon,

I am currently using version 5 of PhotoShop. I've ordered PhotoShop CS, but it will be a while before it arrives. I'm not sure if v5 has the options you mentioned. If it does I'll give it a try.

Thanks for the tip!

Regards,
Mick

I use PS 5 all the time. You do not have the SaveForWeb option, so I save the final version as TIFF, then use SaveAsCopy to save it in JPEG at progressively hreater compression levels until I get under 150k. I've found I can usually guess the compression level needed, and usually get it in one or two tries (levels 6-8 seem to work most of the time). I use SaveAsCopy so I don't have to re-open the TIFF if the JPEG ends up too small or too big the first time.

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

01/25/2004 03:53:31 AM · #7

[/quote]
I use PS 5 all the time. You do not have the SaveForWeb option, so I save the final version as TIFF, then use SaveAsCopy to save it in JPEG at progressively hreater compression levels until I get under 150k. I've found I can usually guess the compression level needed, and usually get it in one or two tries (levels 6-8 seem to work most of the time). I use SaveAsCopy so I don't have to re-open the TIFF if the JPEG ends up too small or too big the first time.[/quote]

The problem is in getting the file size close to 150Kb. At level 9 they're 200+Kb, and at level 8 they're around 100+Kb. They don't provide a level 8.5.

Thanks for the info!

jonpink

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX2

01/25/2004 05:11:38 AM · #8

what 150k??? I have always thought it was around 60k?

Damn...

geewhy

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

01/25/2004 06:31:24 AM · #9

Wow..you guys have been doing all this ????
No wonder my submissions never look as good as I would like.
I can see that I have got a lot to learn about post processing.

Gordon.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/25/2004 11:00:23 AM · #10

Originally posted by micknewton:

The problem is in getting the file size close to 150Kb. At level 9 they're 200+Kb, and at level 8 they're around 100+Kb. They don't provide a level 8.5.

Yes, the fractional compression levels come with later versions ... although I usually manage to hit somethng between 120-145k, which seems satisfactory enough.

If you are close (like at 155k), you can try using a version of the image with slightly less sharpening applied (sharpening adds significantly to the amount of data needed), cropping off a few pixels, or replacing some of the outside pixels with a solid-color border (apply a stroke). All of these have the potential to reduce the file size by the few kb necessary.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

01/25/2004 11:12:30 AM · #11

Another way to knock down file size a little without increasing compression is to run a noise reduction filter such as NeatImage on only the dark areas of the image. If the pic has significant areas that are dark (but not completely black) this will help quite a bit.
A gentle touch of NeatImage on sky areas also helps. Note that because they require a selection, these techniques are legal for "advanced editing" challenges only.

Marjo

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

01/25/2004 12:30:58 PM · #12

If I ever get it right, can I resubmit all my old challenge entries?
Seriously, I can never get the photo to look good after resizing! I have tried to follow step-by-step everyone's suggestions and it never seems to look right.
I can't tell you how many entries I've unsubmitted because of it...and many more I should have, but I can't stand it when I don't have anything to update...withdrawal symptoms set in.

tolovemoon

Canon EOS Rebel SL1

01/25/2004 01:21:48 PM · #13

Originally posted by Marjo:

You sure can!!! I resubmit about 3 to 4 times before I am happy with the picture or done trying to redo size. I am trying to learn PSelements2.0 and getting my picture to the right size for the last few challenges is a challenge all of its own! Thanks guys for bringing this up again I took notes!

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/25/2004 02:50:33 PM · #14

Originally posted by Marjo:

If I ever get it right, can I resubmit all my old challenge entries?

You can't replace the original entry, but you can upload a new version to your portfolio, and put a link to it in the comment area of the original photo.

Shelley

Nikon D200

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

01/25/2004 03:27:32 PM · #15

I just discovered something today while submitting a picture. I usually save for web...but then my web picture looks much lighter and washed out. (I am on a Mac). Today I discovered, the little button at the bottom Edit in Image Ready. When I adjusted the Gamma from windows to Mac the color was just as I wanted it. Now this is something all of you probably already knew...But it was a great help for me. Now my pictures look just as I want them the first time. Hope someone else found this helpful.

Marjo

Canon EOS-7D

01/25/2004 03:42:31 PM · #16

I was just joking, General, but that is a good idea to put a link to the improved photo. Not that I will, I'd rather post new material. The heck with the past stuff. It's history.

01/25/2004 09:38:25 PM · #17

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by micknewton:
The problem is in getting the file size close to 150Kb. At level 9 they're 200+Kb, and at level 8 they're around 100+Kb. They don't provide a level 8.5.

Yes, the fractional compression levels come with later versions ... although I usually manage to hit somethng between 120-145k, which seems satisfactory enough.

If you are close (like at 155k), you can try using a version of the image with slightly less sharpening applied (sharpening adds significantly to the amount of data needed), cropping off a few pixels, or replacing some of the outside pixels with a solid-color border (apply a stroke). All of these have the potential to reduce the file size by the few kb necessary.

I was editing a batch of images today, trying to get the best of the bunch ready for uploading to the "Painting with Light" challenge, and I actually managed to get one file to come out at exactly 150Kb. However, I opened the properties dialog for the file and it showed me...

Size: 149 KB (153,450 bytes)
Size on disk: 152 KB (155,648 bytes)

So, I have to wonder if this file would be acceptable, or not. Thankfully I didn't have to worry about entering a possibly oversize file because I decided to enter one of the other images, but this file could have been the one I wanted to enter. Do you think they would have accepted it?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/25/2004 09:42:12 PM · #18

I've had those ones listed at exactly 150k go both ways -- sometimes they upload and sometimes not. It's usually worth a try unless you're right up against the deadline (like now).

This is a case where I would go to the Canvas Size command and trim one or two pixels off each side, or apply a 2-3 pixel black stroke/border, and see if that would get it to 149k.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

01/25/2004 10:09:00 PM · #19

Originally posted by GeneralE:

So, the system will prevent you from uploading an image larger than 150Kb? If that's the case then it's a good thing. I'd hate to upload an entry at the last minute, have the system accept it, then have it disqualified after it was too late to upload a smaller file.

Thanks for your input on this.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

01/25/2004 10:44:50 PM · #20

Originally posted by micknewton:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by micknewton:
The problem is in getting the file size close to 150Kb. At level 9 they're 200+Kb, and at level 8 they're around 100+Kb. They don't provide a level 8.5.

Yes, the fractional compression levels come with later versions ... although I usually manage to hit somethng between 120-145k, which seems satisfactory enough.

If you are close (like at 155k), you can try using a version of the image with slightly less sharpening applied (sharpening adds significantly to the amount of data needed), cropping off a few pixels, or replacing some of the outside pixels with a solid-color border (apply a stroke). All of these have the potential to reduce the file size by the few kb necessary.

I was editing a batch of images today, trying to get the best of the bunch ready for uploading to the "Painting with Light" challenge, and I actually managed to get one file to come out at exactly 150Kb. However, I opened the properties dialog for the file and it showed me...

Size: 149 KB (153,450 bytes)
Size on disk: 152 KB (155,648 bytes)

So, I have to wonder if this file would be acceptable, or not. Thankfully I didn't have to worry about entering a possibly oversize file because I decided to enter one of the other images, but this file could have been the one I wanted to enter. Do you think they would have accepted it?

The first number is the actual file size. Look at the actual number of bytes; it needs to be below 150,000*1024=153,600 bytes. this is because a "kilobyte" is 1024 bytes.
the "size on disk" is larger because the file occupies only part of the last allocation unit it is written to, and nothing else gets written to the rest of that allocation unit.
you need only be conserned whether the actual file size is less than 153,600 bytes.

TMI?