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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Trolls and friend voting, etc.
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 06/02/2009 09:14:29 PM · #1
I put this in Rant because I presume it will touch some nerves. But something bothers me...really bothers me. And that is the apparent double standard. Recently there have been a few posts on Trolls and their voting habits and of course in a few of those the concept of 'friendly voters' or 'friends who vote' (ghost accounts) has also been brought up.

What I don't understand and feel is where the double standard lies is in this: we (and I mean we in the sense of the general community) bitch and moan about trolls, about ghost accounts, friendly voting, blah, blah blah for all that happens here - on this site. However, at the same time, we (and I mean we in the sense of the general community) seem to feel no shame in begging for votes (essentially 'friendly voting') for our photos entered in competitions on 'other' sites.

What gives? We can plead for votes for photos on non DPC sites but we cannot tolerate, allegedly, the same thing on this, our site?

I guess what my struggle is with is this: is there an ethics issue here or a double standard?

Discuss...

EDIT: Remember that some of these pleas for votes are for photos in competitions that could reap generous rewards for the winner and NOT just a virtual ribbon.

Message edited by author 2009-06-02 21:16:54.
 06/02/2009 09:20:59 PM · #2
There isn't really a double standard unless those asking for votes elsewhere are on a site that specifically relies on anonymous voting.

In all the time I've seen people putting up requests, none of them have been for a site like DPC. They've all been for popular voting. Meaning that there is no rule or stipulation on who or how many times, a person can vote for such things.

That's something that is pretty clear HERE, but elsewhere, popular voting is becoming a huge thing.

Personally, I never vote for someone on a popular vote basis. I don't agree with it, and think that winning something like that is basically meaningless.

But I don't see it as a double standard when compared to DPC.
 06/02/2009 09:32:29 PM · #3
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
But I don't see it as a double standard when compared to DPC.


EXCEPT for the recent example of someone soliciting for Model Mayhem votes, which was against their rules (which he apparently did not know) and which got his entry DQ'd...

R.
 06/02/2009 09:32:35 PM · #4
It shouldn't matter what the rules are or if they are 'popular' votes or not. What should matter is the principle. Is it right to ask for votes on a site (regardless of the rules) when on another site (regardless of the rules) you rally against just such a thing?

Example: Registered User A submits an entry into Open Challenge A. User A then goes to all the forums they participate in and ask for votes on their image. These people who read said posts then go to said site, register and then vote on user A's image. And while they are at, supposedly having read the rules, vote on another set of images to make the 20% (as is required on this site) to get their votes to count. How do you think they are going to vote on the other 19.xx % of the images? Like Trolls? Or like objective participants in the site? How is this different?

Message edited by author 2009-06-03 09:11:59.
 06/02/2009 09:32:45 PM · #5
To be honest, I had noticed the same thing, and have been on the fence, not knowing whether it was really ok or not.
 06/02/2009 09:33:11 PM · #6
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
But I don't see it as a double standard when compared to DPC.


EXCEPT for the recent example of someone soliciting for Model Mayhem votes, which was against their rules (which he apparently did not know) and which got his entry DQ'd...

R.


Ah, well, I guess it happens then (I missed that one), but see, consequences :D
 06/02/2009 09:36:34 PM · #7
Originally posted by CEJ:
It shouldn't matter what the rules are or if they are 'popular' votes or not. What should matter is the principal. Is it right to ask for votes on a site (regardless of the rules) when on another site (regardless of the rules) you rally against just such a thing?


IMO, it's right to ask for votes anywhere that you're entered in a contest that ALLOWS popular voting. Period. IF, and it's a big if, the specific people asking for the popular votes are the ones being vocal about being victimized here on DPC, then yes, I'd roll my eyes at them, but I don't believe they're doing anything wrong. In that case they'd just earn my disdain and future disregard.
 06/02/2009 09:49:20 PM · #8
Originally posted by CEJ:
It shouldn't matter what the rules are or if they are 'popular' votes or not. What should matter is the principal. Is it right to ask for votes on a site (regardless of the rules) when on another site (regardless of the rules) you rally against just such a thing?

Example: Registered User A submits an entry into Open Challenge A. User A then goes to all the forums they participate in and ask for votes on their image. These people who read said posts then go to said site, register and then vote on user A's image. And while they are at, supposedly having read the rules, vote on another set of images to make the 20% (as is required on this site) to get their votes to count. How do you think they are going to vote on the other 19.xx % of the images? Like Trolls? Or like objective participants in the site? How is this different?


Activity like this will get you banned for a long time; something similar happened a couple years back.

For popularity contests I don't see what the issue is, as long as the rules are followed.
 06/02/2009 09:49:37 PM · #9
Well, maybe I am a hard ass or something. But I just see it as wrong and biased. Look at the recent posts and connect the dots so to speak.

Message edited by author 2009-06-03 08:10:45.
 06/02/2009 09:51:14 PM · #10
Originally posted by Ken:
Activity like this will get you banned for a long time; something similar happened a couple years back.


The activity a few years back was a bit more contrived than the scenario I put forth.
 06/02/2009 09:53:31 PM · #11
Originally posted by CEJ:
Well, maybe I am a hard ass or something. But I just see it as wrong and biased. Look at the recent posts and connect the dots so to speak.


I see the difference in the rules. On this site friend voting is not allowed; on other sites it's within the rules.
 06/02/2009 09:55:46 PM · #12
If your photo cannot win without the solicited help of others then maybe it shouldn't win at all.

Message edited by author 2009-06-02 22:03:29.
 06/02/2009 10:05:41 PM · #13
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill with very little actual data or evidence, personally.

As for whether or not popular voting ITSELF is right, or the winners deserving, or the prizes ill-gained (despite their worth), that's a completely different and separate ball-game.
 06/02/2009 10:35:40 PM · #14
I think you're ignoring the ethics/principles.
 06/02/2009 10:39:09 PM · #15
Originally posted by CEJ:
If your photo cannot win without the solicited help of others then maybe it shouldn't win at all.


Assuming that you're referring to the popular (yet legal) voting on other sites, how would you feel if you entered a masterpiece and piece of crap won because you didn't ask for help? I'm sure some of these sites like the popular voting to drive traffic to their site. It's unfortunate that these contests have such rules, but as long they're followed I still don't see the issue.
 06/03/2009 04:08:04 AM · #16
buddy voting sucks. you know who you are
 06/03/2009 04:36:34 AM · #17
Originally posted by crayon:
buddy voting sucks. you know who you are

Do I have to send the checks back? :-)
 06/03/2009 05:45:40 AM · #18
Originally posted by crayon:
buddy voting sucks. you know who you are


Does that mean Obama should resign?
 06/03/2009 07:12:54 AM · #19
I guess where I have the problem with the friend voting thing is.....

A member here in one of these instances decided to become to self-appointed guardian of morality & ethics such that in the heat of the discussion that ensued, he got another member DQed from a contest......a picture of the day kind of thing with the accompanying virtual ribbon, no money, no prize.

The same member then turns around and is supporting the very same type of activity for another contest on another site for a different member.

Now.....is it okay to vote solicit because the rules are different and the rules don't disallow it, or is it ill-gotten gains regardless?

That seems to me to be somewhat contradictory......either vote solicitation is bad or it isn't, the heck with what the rules say, it's the principle, right?

I would think that if you don't approve, the decent thing to do would be to just not vote, rather than stomp all over another member of the community just to make a point.
 06/03/2009 07:23:28 AM · #20
On some sites the whole purpose of contests is to increase traffic. You're urged to invite everyone you know to vote for you and it's the only way to win. Merit has NOTHING to do with it. I think if ethics comes into question at all it's the ethics of this kind of popularity contest hiding under the guise of photography contest. But as long as people choose to enter them I see nothing wrong with giving them my vote where rules not only allow but encourage friend voting.

06/03/2009 07:28:28 AM · #21
Originally posted by MichaelC:
Originally posted by crayon:
buddy voting sucks. you know who you are


Does that mean Obama should resign?


I think Bush gets the prize for that one
 06/03/2009 07:33:11 AM · #22
Democracy. One vote, one man. Yes it sucks. But so be it, that is what the majority want and get. Democracy. Where the uneducated, illinformed, braindead has a voice equal to the educated, well informed thinker. Democracy.

On DPC it once was dubbed Riccicracy. Now called 'friend voting'. Do not waste your time thinking it will ever stop. It won't, not as long as democracy is alive and well and protecting the inbreeding of incompetence. Okay..... just teasing, put back your dentures and guns and canes and fitting shoes.... ;-)

Message edited by author 2009-06-03 07:40:24.
 06/03/2009 07:38:07 AM · #23
See that's just my point Jeb, you haven't distinguished between what is within the rules and what is not, I voted for Pikkels shot because a) I feel it justifies it but and this point is most important b) because the rules allow it!

I also voted way back for Photokariangel (infact many times) because her shot was amongst the best in the competition and because the rules encouraged that type of voting... The one you refer to in the previous thread was violating the rules of that competition and I pointed this out that's all, surely it isn't such a big deal is it?

I could go off on one but I will refrain.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I guess where I have the problem with the friend voting thing is.....

A member here in one of these instances decided to become to self-appointed guardian of morality & ethics such that in the heat of the discussion that ensued, he got another member DQed from a contest......a picture of the day kind of thing with the accompanying virtual ribbon, no money, no prize.

The same member then turns around and is supporting the very same type of activity for another contest on another site for a different member.

Now.....is it okay to vote solicit because the rules are different and the rules don't disallow it, or is it ill-gotten gains regardless?

That seems to me to be somewhat contradictory......either vote solicitation is bad or it isn't, the heck with what the rules say, it's the principle, right?

I would think that if you don't approve, the decent thing to do would be to just not vote, rather than stomp all over another member of the community just to make a point.

06/03/2009 07:50:07 AM · #24
Jeb, by your logic if I report a photo for an editing violation and it's DQed I shouldn't use that editing method in a contest on another site even if the rules allow it.
 06/03/2009 08:02:24 AM · #25
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Jeb, by your logic if I report a photo for an editing violation and it's DQed I shouldn't use that editing method in a contest on another site even if the rules allow it.

Not the same at all on any level.
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