Is Prejean being railroaded? - DPChallenge Forums

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05/05/2009 03:55:33 PM · #26

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Again, though, I'm assuming Prejean was far from the only self-professed Christian on the stage.

Out of curiosity, what kind of Christian IS there other than "self-professed"?

R.

The quiet ones. :) I guess by that I meant they feel free to mention such things in public forums. Lots of people don't like doing that.

BeeCee

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05/05/2009 04:08:32 PM · #27

Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
I don't think it's just about her comments in the pageant, but more about her decision since to use her position as Miss California to crusade against gay marriage, joining with NOM for an ad campaign. When she publicly takes a controversial stand she should expect controversy, including pointing out her own hypocrisy.

My understanding is that this was simply an answer to an interview question. Was this her "her cause" (or platform) that she would be "crusading" (to use your term) for?

Admittedly, I've not read a lot about it, so I may have missed that.

This is since the pageant. I don't know if she had any plans beforehand to get involved in this or if it's as a result of that one question, but she HAS made the choice to publicly campaign.

karmat

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05/05/2009 04:11:06 PM · #28

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
I don't think it's just about her comments in the pageant, but more about her decision since to use her position as Miss California to crusade against gay marriage, joining with NOM for an ad campaign. When she publicly takes a controversial stand she should expect controversy, including pointing out her own hypocrisy.

My understanding is that this was simply an answer to an interview question. Was this her "her cause" (or platform) that she would be "crusading" (to use your term) for?

Admittedly, I've not read a lot about it, so I may have missed that.

This is since the pageant. I don't know if she had any plans beforehand to get involved in this or if it's as a result of that one question, but she HAS made the choice to publicly campaign.

I wonder if she would have made that choice had it been a no-issue with the media. Had they not carried the torch, so to speak, and got things going, would it have just faded into oblivion?

Kinda what the doc alluded to -- does the media produce what we want to see, or do we want to see what the media produces (and round and round it goes).

cynthiann

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05/05/2009 04:24:59 PM · #29

The National Organization for Marriage has adopted a new ad campaign based on her answer... "No offense." They introduce her as the "beauty contestant who lost her crown when she spoke up for marriage."

FireBird

05/05/2009 04:51:05 PM · #30

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Self-confessed?

BeeCee

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05/05/2009 04:56:37 PM · #31

She's not the first who "lost her crown" (she couldn't lose what she didn't yet have) because of her answer to a question. That's exactly why they have that question session; to see how the girls think on the fly.

Matthew

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05/05/2009 06:04:28 PM · #32

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Why even mention Prejean's gay marriage answer then? I'm guessing there are few, if any, articles about the implants that do not mention the interview.

I think that the story arose around the gay marriage answer and the rest is the result of investigative reporting.

I think that you may have a point that there is a double standard when tackling anti-gay marriage statements. When they are made by the church or people who are known religious fundamentalists, or by politicians who need to appeal to the religiously fundamentalist vote, then it does not arouse special indignation. When they are made by people in a non-political and secular context, by a figure held out as being aspirational (which arguably includes the beauty queen pageant) then the speaker is more easily criticised.

I think that the answer may be that there is simply less focus when dealing with politicians and church leaders etc: they are a large body. When it comes to young beauty queens, there are many fewer making this kind of statement.

Age probably also has something to do with it. What is wearying and depressing when said by a middle age fundamentalist preacher becomes outrageous when said by an innocent looking young girl: all to do with the appearance of doing the mind-washing vs being impressionable.

LoudDog

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05/05/2009 06:17:24 PM · #33

Railroaded? Hardly! This is probably the best thing that has ever happened to her!

BrennanOB

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05/05/2009 07:38:34 PM · #34

This weeks New York magazine's approval matrix saved a spot at the corner of "Lowbrow" and "Despicable" with the line " When Perez Hilton takes on Miss California over gay marriage, everybody loses"

My life was better before I heard of either one of these clowns.

david_c

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05/05/2009 08:50:14 PM · #35

Originally posted by LoudDog:

Railroaded? Hardly! This is probably the best thing that has ever happened to her!

Yeah, I'd have to agree. To me, it smacks of calculated, manufactured white noise. WFC what her stance on gay marriage is, or whether or not she's been "enhanced". Simple-minded media manipulation, with "left" and "right" working hand-in-hand. Of course, that's probably just the cynic in me talking. I much preferred the Miss Teen Carolina thing. Waaaay more of a laugh quotient.

JulietNN

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05/05/2009 08:56:15 PM · #36

I havent read the other replies but here is mine:

I have nothing but gay friends, my whole life is surrounded by gay people. The only straight people I know are my children and my parents.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

If that is what she thinks and how she want to live, that is her right. Regardless of whether anyone thinks it is right or wrong.

If a gay person comes out and says, marrage should only be between same sex people, that is there right. RFegardless of whether anyone thinks that is right or wrong.

~~~~

I personally believe that it is hard enough to find love, so if you are gay, straight, black, purple with yellow spots, if you love, treasure, adore, want, need a person, what does it matter what or who they are.

Ken

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05/05/2009 10:31:52 PM · #37

Originally posted by david_c:

Originally posted by LoudDog:
Railroaded? Hardly! This is probably the best thing that has ever happened to her!

Yeah, I'd have to agree. To me, it smacks of calculated, manufactured white noise. WFC what her stance on gay marriage is, or whether or not she's been "enhanced". Simple-minded media manipulation, with "left" and "right" working hand-in-hand. Of course, that's probably just the cynic in me talking. I much preferred the Miss Teen Carolina thing. Waaaay more of a laugh quotient.

And the media does this because it sells. Whether or not you support gay marriage doesn't matter, just that you tune in, get all agitated, and watch the commercials. This is why I stopped watching the news years ago.

To answer the doc's original question, we are the ones obsessed, not the media. If we didn't watch it would go away.

Message edited by author 2009-05-05 22:32:55.

Lydia

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05/05/2009 10:41:34 PM · #38

Please tell me that her younger sister is not named "Jean". *sigh*

Stagolee

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05/05/2009 11:22:01 PM · #39

Originally posted by LydiaToo:

Please tell me that her younger sister is not named "Jean". *sigh*

Jean is still on the way!! her good christian parents didn't do it often.

glad2badad

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05/06/2009 03:46:06 PM · #40

Originally posted by BeeCee:

This is since the pageant. I don't know if she had any plans beforehand to get involved in this or if it's as a result of that one question, but she HAS made the choice to publicly campaign.

And I applaud her (Prejean) standing her ground. There are as many people (if not more) that support traditional marriage as there are those that support gay "marriage". She has as much right to her opinion as anyone else. The "loud" left has struck out at her as the current lightning rod - like the "left" is the only group that has the right to use a national stage to promote their cause(s) - not that she intended to promote a cause. As Doc said, she even attempted to "bridge" her answer.

Bear_Music

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05/06/2009 04:14:36 PM · #41

Originally posted by glad2badad:

There are as many people (if not more) that support traditional marriage as there are those that support gay "marriage". She has as much right to her opinion as anyone else.

Unfortunately, that brings us right back around to the fundamental issue that was debated to death in the Gay Marriage thread: does a hardcore KKK member have "as much right" to his opinion that miscegenation is wrong, say, as Ms. Prejean does to hers on the topic of Gay Marriage? I suppose everyone has a "right" to their opinions, however misbegotten they might be, but still...

R.

joshua

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05/06/2009 05:14:48 PM · #42

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I suppose everyone has a "right" to their opinions, however misbegotten they might be, but still...

R.

this is one of the biggest problems with democracy. we have to say that everyone can think what they want, which implicitly denies the idea of right/wrong, and yet we still claim the right to pass judgment on that which we say is incapable of being judged. that's hypocrisy

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05/06/2009 05:33:09 PM · #43

Originally posted by joshua:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I suppose everyone has a "right" to their opinions, however misbegotten they might be, but still...

R.

this is one of the biggest problems with democracy. we have to say that everyone can think what they want, which implicitly denies the idea of right/wrong, and yet we still claim the right to pass judgment on that which we say is incapable of being judged. that's hypocrisy

quite well said Joshua. The Achilles' Heel of the Relativist metaethic...

Message edited by author 2009-05-06 17:34:27.

david_c

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05/06/2009 06:07:21 PM · #44

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by glad2badad:
There are as many people (if not more) that support traditional marriage as there are those that support gay "marriage". She has as much right to her opinion as anyone else.

Unfortunately, that brings us right back around to the fundamental issue that was debated to death in the Gay Marriage thread: does a hardcore KKK member have "as much right" to his opinion that miscegenation is wrong, say, as Ms. Prejean does to hers on the topic of Gay Marriage? I suppose everyone has a "right" to their opinions, however misbegotten they might be, but still...

R.

Yes, the hypothetical KKK member has the right to his/her opinion. If he/she decides to air that view in a nationally televised format, then he/she can expect those who find that view abhorrent or misguided to respond.

@ glad2badad...I'm not sure I've ever understood this position. Why does support for "traditional" marriage necessitate opposition to gay marriage?

05/06/2009 06:22:03 PM · #45

Originally posted by david_c:

@ glad2badad...I'm not sure I've ever understood this position. Why does support for "traditional" marriage necessitate opposition to gay marriage?

Wait, can you guys pick that up on the other thread? It's nice and juicy and long and I'd hate to wreck this thread which is more about the media and how they approach something like this.

No offense to anybody out there... ;)

Message edited by author 2009-05-06 18:22:22.

05/06/2009 06:25:44 PM · #46

Originally posted by david_c:

I guess my question here is what is the responsibility of the media? If the split on the matter is, say, 50/50 (and I'm sure that's in the ballpark of the reality) pro and against, then should we expect a 50/50 split of the coverage? What about the role of the personal opinion of the reporter? Can that play into things? (An analogy would be the dilemma of whether medical providers need to provide services they find morally wrong.) Should it play into things?

When I peruse the articles that Google News cites, I get a much more skewed view than 50/50. Why is this and should it be? Actually a bigger question is has opinion/analysis replaced reporting in the mainstream media today? Do we now lack the unbiased article that allows the reader to input their own analysis or is it given to us?

Message edited by author 2009-05-06 18:27:49.

Stagolee

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05/06/2009 06:29:54 PM · #47

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by david_c:
Yes, the hypothetical KKK member has the right to his/her opinion. If he/she decides to air that view in a nationally televised format, then he/she can expect those who find that view abhorrent or misguided to respond.

I guess my question here is what is the responsibility of the media? If the split on the matter is, say, 50/50 (and I'm sure that's in the ballpark of the reality) pro and against, then should we expect a 50/50 split of the coverage? What about the role of the personal opinion of the reporter? Can that play into things? (An analogy would be the dilemma of whether medical providers need to provide services they find morally wrong.) Should it play into things?

When I peruse the articles that Google News cites, I get a much more skewed view than 50/50. Why is this and should it be? Actually a bigger question is has opinion/analysis replaced reporting in the mainstream media today? Do we now lack the unbiased article that allows the reader to input their own analysis or is it given to us?

Surely you understand that the media particularly in America is about sensationalism and they like to polarize the community, nothing like a bit of sensationalism to sell a story.