Can you protest a disqualification?

04/20/2009 05:02:48 PM · #126

Well then it is time to DQ "The Painter" or Un-DQ "Blue Sky".

The painter contains a shape....no way to dispute...it contains a shape that wasn't there before the desat. If I had the original, I could likely count the exact number of sides of the polygon created by the color left over after the desat. It looks like it would be 16 or more sides...there is one section I'd need to enlarge to count the sides. If it is 16 sides then the shape left over in "color" after the desat is a Hexadecagon....and it wasn't there before the desat.

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by kenskid:
It would take all color out of the photo except for color in the shape of a circle.

Desat 11 "circles" overlaping each other...is that a DQ? Look at the painter....it has a "color" polygon of give or take...16 sides.

What about a desat from the center of the photo with a 212 sided polygon...DQ?

Da Rulez: "You may... desaturate or change the colors of your entry or any existing object within it." Were the circles or polygons existing objects within your photo? If not, it's a DQ.

04/20/2009 05:21:22 PM · #127

I think it has already been stated that "today" the painter would be a DQ case...

04/20/2009 05:35:36 PM · #128

Well then get to DQing.

Originally posted by Mark-A:

I think it has already been stated that "today" the painter would be a DQ case...

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

04/20/2009 05:38:13 PM · #129

All shapes that were not there before desat....DQ.

Originally posted by sempermarine:

What about this one...(thought I'd throw another log on the fire, besides I'm bored)

K3Master

Pentax K-3

04/20/2009 05:38:59 PM · #130

Originally posted by kenskid:

All shapes that were not there before desat....DQ.

Originally posted by sempermarine:
What about this one...(thought I'd throw another log on the fire, besides I'm bored)

You're not helping your cause any.

04/20/2009 05:46:47 PM · #131

Originally posted by kenskid:

Well then get to DQing.

Originally posted by Mark-A:
I think it has already been stated that "today" the painter would be a DQ case...

You cannot seriously expect them to DQ an image that was submitted nearly 2 years ago? The SC at that time might have had a different view on the ruleset as it was written then for a start.

ETA: As a lot of people do use old images as a guide for inspiration on challenges I do like the idea of putting a warning note under images that no longer meet the ruleset they were entered under originally - even if it is just done on a "as they become apparent" type scenario

Message edited by author 2009-04-20 17:49:58.

04/20/2009 05:48:19 PM · #132

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by kenskid:
All shapes that were not there before desat....DQ.

Originally posted by sempermarine:
What about this one...(thought I'd throw another log on the fire, besides I'm bored)

You're not helping your cause any.

04/20/2009 05:50:46 PM · #133

No I don't think they should "really" DQ the Painter. But I feel that if selective Desat is allowed then it shouldn't matter what "shape" is left over after the desat.

Leaving a shape of "color" after a desat is not adding something to the photo that was not in the original.

Originally posted by Mark-A:

Originally posted by kenskid:
Well then get to DQing.

Originally posted by Mark-A:
I think it has already been stated that "today" the painter would be a DQ case...

You cannot seriously expect them to DQ an image that was submitted nearly 2 years ago? The SC at that time might have had a different view on the ruleset as it was written then for a start.

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

04/20/2009 05:51:58 PM · #134

But the train has no new shapes defined in the image, every desat line is on a predefined edge that was already present in the original image - Sorry but I really do not see what is so hard to understand about this rule personally.

K3Master

Pentax K-3

04/20/2009 05:54:52 PM · #135

Originally posted by kenskid:

Not helping my "cause"??? Either have selective desat or don't have it. Selectivly desaturing is not adding something to a photo that was not already there.

I said DQ the train b/c IMO if you DQ "blue sky" then all desat should be DQ.

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by kenskid:
All shapes that were not there before desat....DQ.

Originally posted by sempermarine:
What about this one...(thought I'd throw another log on the fire, besides I'm bored)

You're not helping your cause any.

And it's been pointed out countless times why this is an unreasonable and misleading assertion.

BrianR

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

04/20/2009 05:55:15 PM · #136

Although it is a grey area in determaning a shape created that is not in your original, in this case the blue sky was in the original and when you ceated the desaturation you shaped the blue sky to appear it is comming from the pencil. Had you made the hole sky area blue leaving the pencil in the same spot to appear to the viewer as if the sky had been colored blue this would not have been DQ'd.

I started out doing the same with my entry and when I stepped back and saw I had created a shape I changed my way of thinking and color filled whole areas without creating shapes.

I didn't read every post in this thread but was able to pick up on the theme of why your photo was dq'd, so I may have gone over what has been said. IMHO the SC used the rules correctly, Sorry for the DQ.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

04/20/2009 05:59:32 PM · #137

Originally posted by kenskid:

Look at it from the other direction. How do we write a ruleset that allows use of selective desaturation as a tool without making a mockery of the rule that says we can't add anything to our image that wasn't in the original capture? How do we keep people from adding graphic elements like text (elements that are forbidden) if *any* use of selective desaturation is allowed?

And saying "thou shalt not desaturate" is not an answer, because then we get into fine-line defining how much desaturation constitutes desaturation, and from there we have to look at at how much extra saturation (oversaturation) is allowable, and we are in even deeper do-do than we are now.

The rule's fine as it stands, it just needs to be made clear somehow that the "painter" image is no longer a viable example of legal editing.

R.

BrianR

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

04/20/2009 06:02:10 PM · #138

Originally posted by kenskid:

There are no new shapes in this photo, selectivly coloring all or part of your photo is leagal under the rules, desat is a color,as is the selected colored areas.

04/20/2009 06:04:30 PM · #139

That's fine...but where do you "draw the line" in the future? I can selectivly desat an image to make the colored part look like a 198 sided polygon....barely recognizable as a "shape". Someone else in the same challenge can desat to a 6 sided polygon...highly recognizable and get a dq.

Originally posted by BrianR:

04/20/2009 06:07:45 PM · #140

If the 198 sided polygon is within a shape that was all blue and that 198 sided polygon created lines in the blue then it would be a DQ just the same as the 6 sided polygon.

ETA: Bolded text "with" in an attempt to make that part make sense LOL

Message edited by author 2009-04-20 18:12:24.

04/20/2009 06:14:00 PM · #141

Hmmm so let's say you have a picture of a farm...has a barn, horse, two pigs, trees, tractors a fence and a chicken. All of this is spread all over the photo. The photo is 8x10. You desat the center so that the center is 6x8....a square with all kinds of farm tools in it...is that a DQ?

Now...let's say the square barn door is directly in the center of the photo. You desat everything but the square barn door. Is that a DQ?

EDIT: seems if any of these is a DQ then rules need to be changed to say you can only desat selective objects in your photo....the whole object....no taking big chunks of a photo and desaturatng.

Originally posted by Mark-A:

If the 198 sided polygon is in a shape that was all blue and that 198 sided polygon created lines in the blue then it would be a DQ just the same as the 6 sided polygon.

Message edited by author 2009-04-20 18:16:12.

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

04/20/2009 06:20:51 PM · #142

If the first scenario does not follow predefined lines that are in the original image then yes as I understand it that image would be a DQ case, the second scenario with the barndoor would have no reason to be DQ'd, now taking it further if the barn door had large red handles and you felt that they detract from the image you could choose to leave the barndoor saturated but desaturate the handles as long as they are selected around the lines of the handles.

GinaRothfels

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

04/20/2009 06:42:26 PM · #143

I think the first scenario would probably be okay too, because the outer section might be regarded as a border. Of course it's hard to say for sure without seeing an actual image, but I seem to think this type of thing has been done before.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

04/20/2009 06:52:46 PM · #144

Originally posted by kenskid:

Seeing as 98% of advaned editing challenges are members only, is it really worth two dozen posts on your part? Just a question...

Message edited by author 2009-04-20 18:53:03.

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

04/20/2009 06:54:04 PM · #145

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I did actually think about that as I hit enter but couldn't be bothered to edit it again LOL - I still think it may need a solid line inbetween the desat and the saturated edge to define the border (well I think that's how I would approach it if it was something I had in mind) :p

EDIT: To add the quote as Doc jumped in and made a valid point between Gina and my posts ;)

Message edited by author 2009-04-20 18:55:10.

delin

Canon EOS-40D

04/20/2009 07:25:42 PM · #146

Maybe it would be helpful to have a "Hall of Shame" with DQ examples shown and why they are DQ. Visual would be easier to grasp than written rules and could help clarify difficult concepts. It could be a resource along with the rules to learn how to play here. This could help stop repetative problems like this. Not everyone sees each DQ or the following discussions. I'd volunteer to be the first shameful one!

Also, what is OP? Offending Party I'm guessing?

K3Master

Pentax K-3

04/20/2009 07:30:36 PM · #147

Originally posted by delin:

Original Poster.

Also, "shame"? Hall of Helpful Hints to Avoid DQ maybe, but there's nothing shameful in it if it was an honest mistake.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

04/20/2009 07:43:36 PM · #148

Originally posted by delin:

I started one when I was DQd Maybe it's worthwhile resurrecting it.
dq primer

04/20/2009 08:24:18 PM · #149

Ok Doc and Mark-A...

Does it really matter if 98% of advanced is for members? What the hell does that have to do with me posting and replying to posts on this thread...just because I didn't pay another $25? If that's the case, make forums for paying members only. I'm not insulting anyone in this thread nor am I going OFF TOPIC...like I got called out for last week.

If you don't like my posts then either reply with your take on it...(which you both did) or just don't reply. Why would you add the 98% remark to your reply. This kind of arrogant crap on this site sickens me.

EDIT: I was going to post some samples to show my take...but I don't think I'll waste my time.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by kenskid:
Hmmm so let's say you have a picture of a farm...has a barn, horse, two pigs, trees, tractors a fence and a chicken. All of this is spread all over the photo. The photo is 8x10. You desat the center so that the center is 6x8....a square with all kinds of farm tools in it...is that a DQ?

Now...let's say the square barn door is directly in the center of the photo. You desat everything but the square barn door. Is that a DQ?

EDIT: seems if any of these is a DQ then rules need to be changed to say you can only desat selective objects in your photo....the whole object....no taking big chunks of a photo and desaturatng.

Seeing as 98% of advaned editing challenges are members only, is it really worth two dozen posts on your part? Just a question...

Message edited by author 2009-04-20 20:26:56.

scalvert