do photographers/adults hate children?

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

03/14/2009 06:52:14 PM · #1

i was a fool

Message edited by author 2009-03-15 07:07:34.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

03/14/2009 07:07:56 PM · #2

Well, 17 doesn't qualify as "children", now does it? So the answer, in that context, to your titular question, is "No!"

Regarding the issue you're having, as a youth, with these people not getting back to you, my first reaction is to say that there's no real etiquette in place for responding to uninvited, internet solicitations. So I am not surprised they aren't getting back to you. If you'd sent a snail-mail package with a nicely-typed resume, some samples of work, and a request for consideration, then I'd be a little more surprised. But not very...

Because the fact of the matter is that, by and large, professional photographers consider themselves "artists", and for the most part artists are a$$h$les, in my fairly extensive experience :-) I mean, take this statement with a grain of salt, but if you';re approaching established photographers who work in the "dream field" you have described, well these people are just SWAMPED with requests like yours and they aren't about to waste valuable time responding to every such request that slides past the spam filters... That's just the way it is.

R.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/14/2009 07:21:00 PM · #3

Well said Robert.

I would like to stress your point about email. It is hard for alot of teens to see how differently your generation and the one of your parents see electronic communication. To you guys texting is essentially the same act as writing a letter, just much less efficient. To us it is a totally different sort of action.

If you want one of those coveted positions as an assistant to one of these guys you have to show passion and a slavish need to get the position. Write and phone and drop by. Anything that doesn't get either a job or a restraining order means you need to push harder. Ask your friends and your parents friends, a personal reference from someone they know or have done work for is how most of these positions get filled. Someone you know knows someone who knows someone who can get your foot in the door.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/14/2009 07:23:58 PM · #4

They probably get a lot of such requests. It's not being rude, it's concentrating on their business. Not sure what to suggest, however.

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/14/2009 07:33:13 PM · #5

To add to what has already been said: I get requests such as yours from time to time and I do not respond or only respond with "No positions available, blah blah...." and I'll tell you why. When I read an email from some young photographer-to-be that says "I love photography and your work and I would like to be your assistant so I can learn from you, etc..." I hear "Even though you spent YEARS studying, practicing and learning about your craft, I would like to spend a summer where you teach me everything I need to know to be hugely successful AND I want you to pay me while you do it". Frankly, its insulting.

I know internships are the way to learn in many industries, but in photography its far more up to the individual to get the skillset they need through MUCH practice and studying before a pro-shooter would hire them as an assistant. During a session the shooter just doesn't have time to stop and teach the assistant everything they need to know in order to be effective (regardless of their age).

I hope that helps and please, don't think me rude, I'm just trying to give you some perspective.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/14/2009 08:23:54 PM · #6

In the US, inexpensive photography classes are often available through community colleges or adult schools ... perhaps you have the equivalent available there. It's usually much easier to learn from someone whose job is teaching.

You might also consider a "lateral" move into the field, by first getting a job in a framing or high-end printing shop, where you could have a chance to meet and possibly develop a relationship with many photographers.

Sony Sonnar T* 35mm F2.8 ZA

03/15/2009 06:56:24 AM · #7

i can see i have cleary provoked some responses i didnt mean to get, so i am indeed sorry i simply had a weak moment you could say.
i just got frustrated with some companys and people who said on their website they would get back to me soon.

however i would like to explain im perhaps not quite as pushy as i may have seemed! i dont infact ask to be an assistant i would just like to perhaps shadow them even for a couple hours and i dont even want pay just some experience i think that is also wat frustrates me slighty but in heinsight i should have thought about them being busy etc i perhaps didnt think this post through , it was late at night,

and i hope that none of you think me rude either i take all your comments with an open mind and i realise now i was out of line... ive still got alot to learn!

(can you delete posts? i wouldnt like to take this further)

Message edited by author 2009-03-15 07:08:17.

salmiakki

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

03/15/2009 07:16:23 AM · #8

Henry

I hope what I am about to say is not out of line. Trust me, it is well meaning advice from someone who is a hiring manager for a large company. (Nothing to do with photography or the arts, but the same rules apply in all walks of life).

When you are applying for a job, you need to have something that makes your application stand out from all the rest. You need to make the person who is potentially hiring you sit up and take notice. Robert already indicated a very good way to do this with regard to photography.

Additionally, I would add to Robert's comment, make sure your e-mail is well written, that your CV does not include grammatical and spelling mistakes. These things matter, even in the 21st Century! The text message mentality does not cut it in the real world. Get a teacher or parent to double check your e-mail or CV before sending it. Trust me, it makes a difference to the person receiving it. Don't rely on the spell check in word processing packages. They do not pick up the wrong use of there, their, they're, to, two or too. These things are still important.

OK, sermon over, but remember, in a job market (even for summer trainees) such as this, you want to be noticed for having something special in a positive, not negative way. There is a huge amount of competition, even for jobs with no pay cheque (UK) (check US) attached.

Message edited by author 2009-03-15 07:17:35.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/15/2009 03:56:30 PM · #9

Thanks it was not out of line at all...

And thanks my CV is correct though we made them ages ago in school where teachers etc checked but ive added quite abit since and i wouldnt dream of using text message speak on a CV dont worry!

thank you all i may reapply for or 2 with a completely different approach!
Thanks again (and sorry)

Henry

Niten

Canon EOS-20D

03/16/2009 01:10:40 PM · #10

To know the value of generosity, it is necessary to have suffered from the cold indifference of others.
Eugene Cloutier

citymars

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/16/2009 01:52:15 PM · #11

Originally posted by wacksonjackson:

i was a fool

Not at all! And by the way, I've met a couple of "famous photographers" socially, and had a little fantasy about spending a day with each, tailing them in their studios, just to see them at work and possibly learn from the experience. So I hear where you were coming from in terms of the desire for a mentor. (I didn't ask, btw, but it was fun to imagine.)

Prof_Fate

03/16/2009 07:58:50 PM · #12

You deleted your original post so I don't know what it was...
but seeking to shadow someone at work - be that a photographer or an auto mechanic or a mailman, well, you want 'take your son school day' or something?

There are 4 types of professional photographers
1- those that are new and know nothing, are not making a living, etc. you can learn nothing from them.
2- typical studios that have an owner, another full time (usually the wife/husband) and then a part time or seasonal person, often a HS senior/rep type that works for min wage or similar.
3 - big name folks - hanson fong, joe buissink, etc - these folks can choose who works for them. Hanson is teaching at the week long PPA school I am attending this week and at his weddings he has two assistants - both have PPA Master degrees, assisting him. You can't get that job, sorry!
4 - big production studios or similar - Romaguera in new orleans, larry peters in ohio, collen and co in pa - these places shoot a LOT of seniors and schools and sports. it's high production, work yourself to the bone work. You are a cog in a machine (walmart, jcpenny, sears, etc are in this category but in a lower price class). it's like working at walmart and hoping to learn the retail sales industry - you learn one little part of it.

find your local PPA affiliated org, join it, attend meetings and meet the folks in it. then you have a way to approach photogs to get a job.
There are a lot of photogs out there looking for help - I am one of them. It seems no one wants to actually work these days. they work a day or two and leave...WTF? It's taken me years to get where I am, and will take years longer to get where i'm going. They seem to think it's all glamour or that the second hour at work they'll be shooting seniors or weddings or something. It don't work that way.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

03/16/2009 08:57:37 PM · #13

One thing about this place is that if you're serious, there are various people here that will help you to become the best photographer that you can be.

You'll learn technique, about equipment, how to shoot and process images, and how to navigate the business end of it as well.

BUT.....

You will have to work your @$$ off, SERIOUSLY pay attention, learn how to have your work sliced to ribbons and be grateful for the critique, and shoot, shoot, shoot.

There are too many people out there now vying for the photography dollar, and really good portrait, wedding, and special shoot photogs are losing work to the halfway competent who are willing to do the job for nothing.

I'm technically a professional as I have a tax license and all, but I no longer have any dreams or illusions about what I do being any more than a semi-lucrative hobby.

I'm not interested in making the financial commitment for the proper equipment, I refuse to give up my life on weekends, having no family life, and I want to shopot what I want to shoot and not what someone else wants.

And I am certainly not good enough, nor do I have the time and money to go whole hog into the time and money investment in the arts & craft show circuit traveling 40+ weeks a year.

A harsh, heavy dose of reality should help you see what's involved oif you truly want to go this route, and the people here who are pros can and will give you some cold realities if you ask them......but know this.....don't ask if you're not serious because there's an awful lot you may not want to hear.

I'm not trying to take anything away from your dream.....I actually lived mine for almost two decades in another field.......but the sad truth with photography is that unlike many specialties, there are way more photographers, and REALLY good ones, than there are good paying, and secure jobs around for them.

Good luck in your efforts.

pixelpig

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 1.8/50mm SAM

03/17/2009 04:25:54 PM · #14

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

...for the most part artists are a$$h$les, in my fairly extensive experience :-) ...

R.

What a strange statement, coming from you especially. Maybe the only artists you notice are the ones acting like a$$h$les. That's why you notice them. It feeds the myth that all artists are a$$h$les, so if you're not an a$$h$le then you can't be a real artist. Like the myth that all real photographers carry big black cameras, so until you own a big black camera you can't be a real photographer.

We're always saying here that you have to shoot to please yourself. Read the comments, but don't take them all to heart. Isn't that a kinder, gentler version of a$$h$le behavior? Could there be another word that doesn't also apply to so many other socially awkward situations, that we could use for artists? Egocentric? Obsessed? After all, you can't be an artist-by-committee. Not since the Monkees, anyway.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

03/17/2009 06:23:06 PM · #15

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

...for the most part artists are a$$h$les, in my fairly extensive experience :-) ...

R.

Originally posted by pixelpig:

I think it's a context thing.

I've noticed that people who are true artists are socially awkward, and in some extreme situations, downright inept BECAUSE they're so obsessed, egocentric, focused, whatever.....

In a lot of cases, they don't care, either, which goes a long way toward perpetuating the @$$hole theory........8>)