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03/11/2009 06:36:29 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by violinist123:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
'cept, he is a youngin, don't know nuthin 'bout no old school stuff. Probably, that is a shaved head on his young friend there, too. Poser! I EARNED my chromedome thru years of nature taking it's harsh toll. :-| |
I got tired of waiting for nature to finish the job and helped it along. |
"I feel so sorry for you guys!" he said as he shook his 62-year old head of lustrous, aesthetically graying hair...
R.
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03/11/2009 10:12:31 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by violinist123:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
'cept, he is a youngin, don't know nuthin 'bout no old school stuff. Probably, that is a shaved head on his young friend there, too. Poser! I EARNED my chromedome thru years of nature taking it's harsh toll. :-| |
I got tired of waiting for nature to finish the job and helped it along. |
"I feel so sorry for you guys!" he said as he shook his 62-year old head of lustrous, aesthetically graying hair...
R. |
Damn hippy! |
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03/11/2009 10:33:19 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by violinist123:
Damn hippy! |
 It's "hippie" thank you -- "hippy" is an anatomical condition ... ;-) |
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03/11/2009 10:42:01 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by violinist123:
Damn hippy! |
It's "hippie" thank you -- "hippy" is an anatomical condition ... ;-) |
yea, and I, for one, do not want to see the photo of  Bear_Music that confirms or denies that condition.... |
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03/11/2009 10:51:39 PM · #30 |
Best I can do ...  |
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03/11/2009 10:57:50 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Best I can do ... |
So, Does A Bear Shoot In The Woods?
it would seem so..... :-) |
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03/12/2009 12:13:02 PM · #32 |
(back to topic)
The camera could be too close to the subject? I was guilty of this for a long time, until learning about the DOF Calculator. Enter the data for your camera & lens, then look up the closest focal point. On a LOT of lenses, being closer than 6 feet can cause problems like this.
The pics above (especially the top one) look mis-focused, like the camera TRIED to focus on the subject by reaching the near-end of its focus ability, but couldn't quite get it. Unfortunately for me, cameras don't come with a "Hey dumbass, you're too close to your subject" alarm. Can you tell who learned this lesson the hard way? lol
Unless you're needing something in the background that requires a wide angle, try stepping back a couple feet & zooming in. With a prime, just crop in post.
Let us know what you find, k? |
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03/12/2009 01:28:49 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
(back to topic)
The camera could be too close to the subject? I was guilty of this for a long time, until learning about the DOF Calculator. Enter the data for your camera & lens, then look up the closest focal point. On a LOT of lenses, being closer than 6 feet can cause problems like this.
The pics above (especially the top one) look mis-focused, like the camera TRIED to focus on the subject by reaching the near-end of its focus ability, but couldn't quite get it. Unfortunately for me, cameras don't come with a "Hey dumbass, you're too close to your subject" alarm. Can you tell who learned this lesson the hard way? lol
Unless you're needing something in the background that requires a wide angle, try stepping back a couple feet & zooming in. With a prime, just crop in post.
Let us know what you find, k? |
oh--that is an interesting idea, too.... good thought!
maybe we need this to flash in our viewfinders
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03/12/2009 04:53:20 PM · #34 |
If it applies...this might be handy for some.
DOF Master for iPhone/iTouch |
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03/13/2009 09:03:33 AM · #35 |
No I don't think I'm too close because I get focus closer and farther, I just have a hard time focusing at the right point in the pic while looking for the viewfinder. I just can't see where the focus is exactly through the viewfinder.
As someone mentioned earlier the Dioptric doesn't adjust for bad eyes and I don't wear glasses yet I've been told I'm right on the edge of failing my driver's eye test and pass it by one correct letter everytime. In other words my eyes need glasses or contacts and I don't have em.
Must be the problem behind everything.
Message edited by author 2009-03-13 09:03:46. |
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03/13/2009 09:35:40 AM · #36 |
When I am shooting in a hurry,I tend to focus beyond what I want to get when shooting wide open. I have found Bear's advice to be very helpful. He posted the same advice a long time ago.
I understand that there is not always time to compose and then leisurely tinker with focus, but I have learned to focus accurately a lot quicker than I used to. I have found it helpful to have the grid lines turned on in the viewfinder of my S3's, and that way there are lines at the thirds for me to use as a checkpoint to keep my eye focus from drifting. I am not sure if the canon has the grid lines feature, but it helped solve my problem.
That's good advice about setting the diopter with the sky out of focus too. Thanks.
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03/13/2009 11:07:22 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
To check diopter adjustment, point camera at something bright and throw it out of focus, like focus at closest possible distance then point camera at a bright sky. Now rotate the wheel so the focus points/other markings on the viewfinder screen are tack sharp. Check this frequently, at LEAST every time you start shooting. It's easy. |
Just wanted clarification, normally when I adjust the diopter I just look at something fairly close and make sure it's in focus and then ajdust the Dioptric to make that focused area even more sharp. Are you telling me that's the wrong way to go?
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
To manually focus properly in critical situations, over or under focus substantially, so the scene is blurry. Now focus your eyes on the viewfinder markings, then bring the image "up" to that focus level, so image and marks are both in focus.
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I think I understand this part.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It is actually possible for the eye to bring focus up in front of, or behind, the ground glass of a focusing screen, so surface marks are critical.
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I don't know if I understand what you mean here. |
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03/13/2009 11:31:31 AM · #38 |
If the diopter is correct, all of the readouts when you look into the viewfinder should be in sharp focus. The diopter adjustment is to allow you to adjust the view so that when the lens is focused correctly, it looks right to your eye in the viewfinder. (and also to allow you to see the readouts clearly in the viewfinder)
Your eye tries to adjust it's focus on the image that you are seeing in the viewfinder, even though the image may not be in focus at the view screen in the camera. The suggestion to keep glancing at the readouts as you focus is a way to help keep your eye focused at a certain distance. That way, the readouts are sort of a bench mark that allows you to accurately focus the image before you shoot.
Bear was talking about this effect with using large format cameras where you are actually looking at the image projected through a ground glass to focus. Your eye tries to adjust to focus on the image that you are looking directly at, even though the lens may not be focused there.
To demonstrate this effect, try putting your camera on a tripod, and focus on one number on a tape measure laid out going away from the camera. Do this with the camera turned off, then, without changing the focus, turn the camera on, and see if the readouts look in focus, and also look then to see if the focus point on the ruler seems to have changed.
Clarification about adjusting diopter to make something close look focused; not a good idea. I think that this subject may be covered in your camera's manual.
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03/13/2009 11:48:17 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by drewhosick:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
To check diopter adjustment, point camera at something bright and throw it out of focus, like focus at closest possible distance then point camera at a bright sky. Now rotate the wheel so the focus points/other markings on the viewfinder screen are tack sharp. Check this frequently, at LEAST every time you start shooting. It's easy. |
Just wanted clarification, normally when I adjust the diopter I just look at something fairly close and make sure it's in focus and then ajdust the Dioptric to make that focused area even more sharp. Are you telling me that's the wrong way to go?
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
To manually focus properly in critical situations, over or under focus substantially, so the scene is blurry. Now focus your eyes on the viewfinder markings, then bring the image "up" to that focus level, so image and marks are both in focus.
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I think I understand this part.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It is actually possible for the eye to bring focus up in front of, or behind, the ground glass of a focusing screen, so surface marks are critical.
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I don't know if I understand what you mean here. |
The bottom line is this: the IMAGE is essentially floating in space, it's nothing but light rays, right? So its *focus* (if this term even has meaning in that context) could be anywhere.
Now, a dSLR camera is designed with a mirror that intercepts the image after it passes through the lens and reflects it through some optical device so that it is projected onto a ground glass screen that is *optically* exactly as far from the focal plane of the lens as is the camera's sensor: so anything in focus on that ground glass is in focus at the sensor plane as well.
Why ground glass instead of transparent glass? Because it magnifies dramatically the difference between in focus and out-of-focus, essentially giving you a "canvas" on which to work.
But here's the thing of it: as far as the eyes are concerned, you don't *need* a screen, exactly. Ever seen a hologram? That's just light rays coalescing in a volume of space, no screen. And it is possible (indeed, it's COMMON) for your eyes to be focusing the image a little in front of, or a little behind, the focusing screen itself.
What you want is for your eyes to be focused ON the screen, which is the exact analog of the sensor for focusing purposes, and then to see the image come into focus on that same plane.
To do this accurately, you need to FIRST focus your eyes on the viewfinder markings, then *hold* that focus as you bring the image up to that plane and lock it there. I don't know of any clearer way to describe it, but it is the essential skill needed to focus accurately.
Hope this helps clarify.
R.
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03/13/2009 11:54:54 AM · #40 |
Between the last two posts I think I understand a little better.
So the numbers below(such as the ISO, F stop shutter speed and such, can I use those to set the diopter or do i need to use the markings on the screen for that part?
The reason I ask is I tried looking at the bright white cloudy sky yesterday while doing this. What I got was at one end of the diopter was the lines very thin and not very black and at the other end the lines were very dark black but a little thicker(or so it seemed). What I'm saying is it seemed hard to distinguish what that's in focus and when it's not since I don't know what it should look like when it's in focus(In other words, I'm not seeing double vision or anything of the sort just a darkening and lightening of the lines in the viewfinder.)
Just trying to get this right, I hope I'm not too annoying. |
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03/13/2009 12:09:56 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by drewhosick:
Between the last two posts I think I understand a little better.
So the numbers below(such as the ISO, F stop shutter speed and such, can I use those to set the diopter or do i need to use the markings on the screen for that part? |
Yes. Put the lens cap on, then depress the shutter button halfway and spin the diopter wheel to focus the illuminated markings. It is, however, hard to do that in the field and hand-held. I'd still recommend getting a good idea what a focused screen looks like by ddoing the above, then pointing the camera at the unfocused bright object and evaluating the screen itself. Reason? Because once you know what it's SUPPOSED to look like you can easily spot-check it in the field between shots.
And you really, really, really want to do that if manual focus is your thing. You cannot trust your eyes to remain constant from day to day, or even hour to hour.
R.
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03/13/2009 06:21:17 PM · #42 |
| I got my old glasses fixed and tried the camera with the glasses and it's definetely better now with the glasses on. |
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03/14/2009 01:02:40 AM · #43 |
Here's one other thought. If your two eyes need different diopter settings, you may be missing the focus if you switch eyes at the viewfinder as you are shooting. If you go from horizontal to vertical format, this might be happening.
Glad to hear that the glasses help.
Maybe your subject in the examples was just too drunk to obtain an accurate focus? : )
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03/14/2009 09:12:23 AM · #44 |
| I doubt it, I don't believe he partakes too much in the drink but he sure can act like it even when he isn't!!! |
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03/14/2009 09:37:58 AM · #45 |
I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this but I read most of the thread and scanned the rest but haven't read all the thread...but I will later as this is very interesting to me and I am also having the same problems with this
on my camera on the base of the lens...I have a small ring that if it get's bumped in the slightest (a very easy thing to do) it throws off the focus...I am forever hitting it by accident, (but I am getting better at avoiding it) so I have to watch it and ck it often and I can not see my view monitor well enough to tell if I have a good shot or not (it helps to have my cheaters, but it is still hard) it sucks getting old... |
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03/14/2009 09:46:42 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The diopter adjusts for near/far sightedness, not for other issues such as astigmatism. So I use my glasses when I shoot, and still have to adjust the diopter setting to get everything right. And under some conditions I have to CHANGE the adjustment of the diopter from its usual setting; in extreme cold, for example, I have to change it.
To check diopter adjustment, point camera at something bright and throw it out of focus, like focus at closest possible distance then point camera at a bright sky. Now rotate the wheel so the focus points/other markings on the viewfinder screen are tack sharp. Check this frequently, at LEAST every time you start shooting. It's easy.
To manually focus properly in critical situations, over or under focus substantially, so the scene is blurry. Now focus your eyes on the viewfinder markings, then bring the image "up" to that focus level, so image and marks are both in focus. It is actually possible for the eye to bring focus up in front of, or behind, the ground glass of a focusing screen, so surface marks are critical and learning the knack of focusing on THEM rather than the image with your eyes and holding that focus as you bring the image up is a critical skill.
This is something all large-format photographers have to learn to do. The difficulty of doing it is why split/prism viewfinders were invented, back in the day, and then of course autofocus ditto. So the bottom line is, it's HARD to learn to focus manually with a dSLR, and some folks never get it right.
R. |
 I found this very helpful! I was just helping someone learn to use a DSLR for the first time today and was trying to explain the way to use the diopter in Chinese and realized that I had never really used it all that much. The manual focus thing was helpful too.
Good habits!
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03/14/2009 09:58:59 AM · #47 |
I might have scanned this too quickly, but I believe someone else brought it up as well--was this shot manual focus? I know it said that manual focus was preferred... if not, did we determine which focus point was being used? Have you tried selecting one focus point, using that and recomposing?
Now, all that being said--I sold my 20D for that same reason--but not that extreme. I upgraded from a rebel that I loved (sounds like a romance novel :)) to a 20D because I wanted the extra features. I had the 20D for a year and hated it the whole time--the focus just seemed very soft to me. My husband thought I was crazy (and maybe I am), but I do a lot of photography for the neighborhood swim team, and shots that used to be crystal clear were a little muddy. I sent it back to Canon, they sent it back the same way it was. After a year, I sold it and upgraded to the 40D--which I love.
Now, as I mentioned, it was not this bad. So I was just wondering if you were using the predictive focusing instead of using one focus point and recomposing... or was it indeed manual focus? |
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I found this very helpful! I was just helping someone learn to use a DSLR for the first time today and was trying to explain the way to use the diopter in Chinese and realized that I had never really used it all that much. The manual focus thing was helpful too.
