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01/05/2009 06:38:36 AM · #1 |
When I first started looking at this site I was surprised that all photos have a title. Sometimes these titles add something to the photo in that convey the feeling or emotion the photographer was trying to achieve. Sometimes they are little more than a cover-up for a bad photo to make sure the viewer has any chance of understanding the context.
However, I now find it impossible to look at a photo subjectively without being led into it by the title. My eye is always drawn down to the title and this prejudices the way I then view the photo as it's loaded with meaning before I even get to appreciate it.
Surely if a photo needs a title then it's not altogether coherent, and if it doesn't need a title then there's little point adding one? Will a challenge photo score as highly if it's untitled? Do we title photos just because everybody else does? |
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01/05/2009 07:18:04 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by mikeee:
Surely if a photo needs a title then it's not altogether coherent, and if it doesn't need a title then there's little point adding one? Will a challenge photo score as highly if it's untitled? Do we title photos just because everybody else does? |
Yes, yes and yes. We've fought this battle here tons of times. I struggle with titles and can usually do without them, but I like having the option. DPC's take on it is that it's part of the presentation. |
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01/05/2009 10:59:29 AM · #3 |
| I hate titling images. I find on here that a title often serves as a way to shoehorn an image into a challenge. |
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01/05/2009 11:14:51 AM · #4 |
I like when you have
"Title (description of why the image fits the challenge, get it, no really, do you get it???)"
That said, I normally see the image first and look at the title second |
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01/05/2009 11:16:21 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
I hate titling images. I find on here that a title often serves as a way to shoehorn an image into a challenge. |
Many here would be lost without it. :)
For true works of art, titles are are only necessary to identify a particular piece. After all, what does one call a person or thing that has no name? :)
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01/05/2009 11:24:55 AM · #6 |
I have to say I agree with what's being said here and I think I probably won a ribbon with the help of a humorous title. I think very often if you are just presenting a photo then coming up with a title is a bit of a pain and getting rid of them in the Free Study challenges would be good. However, I think this would be a bit more difficult for the themed challenges and probably less entertaining! This for example for the sunset / sunrise challenge:
(Oops Too Late)
really made me laugh.
But for the Free Study - I'd rather we didn't have the choice to add a title.
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01/05/2009 11:46:09 AM · #7 |
As  bvy indicated, there are many threads on this topic, but I agree with you. FYI, I once got criticized for naming a photo "untitled." Anyhow, I often don't even look at the titles, or read them only as an afterthought. They are easy to avoid if you have a small enough monitor. :-) |
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01/05/2009 11:50:31 AM · #8 |
| Most of my images are named practically...as in setname_image# (newark_0021), But I doubt that title would fly too well on here for an image. |
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01/05/2009 11:54:49 AM · #9 |
The only beef I have is titles on Free Study images. I put one on mine too, so I can't have too much of a beef with it, but it can interfere with the commenting I do. lol.
I just try very hard not to notice it. |
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01/05/2009 12:29:45 PM · #10 |
I think there is nothing so lovely as a well wrought title...some are more adept at this than others. Titles can be the icing on the cake, or they can be it's doom depending on the viewer.
Surely if a photo needs a title then it's not altogether coherent, and if it doesn't need a title then there's little point adding one? Will a challenge photo score as highly if it's untitled? Do we title photos just because everybody else does?
This I strongly disagree with, and it makes little sense to me. Just because the viewer doesn't understand a photograph doesn't make it and the photographers vision less coherent or lacking...that is the viewer's own fault. I suppose a bad title can wreck havoc as far as voting goes, or a title and image that takes more than 3 seconds to get, but we all have our own likes and dislikes. And of course an image will score well without a title as long as it fits the DPC formula...ie: "wow!" factor, "tack" sharpness, instant gratification, pretty colors, obvious subject matter, eye candy etc.
I see no need to take away the photographers option to title their own image because a handful of viewers dislike the idea of titling. |
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01/05/2009 12:39:30 PM · #11 |
| I dont think anyone was advocating taking it away, I think most people are saying they would prefer the option to not give a title? |
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01/05/2009 02:09:15 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by mikeee:
Surely if a photo needs a title then it's not altogether coherent, and if it doesn't need a title then there's little point adding one? Will a challenge photo score as highly if it's untitled? Do we title photos just because everybody else does? |
Originally posted by RKT:
This I strongly disagree with, and it makes little sense to me. Just because the viewer doesn't understand a photograph doesn't make it and the photographers vision less coherent or lacking...that is the viewer's own fault. |
Good point. However, had the 'Mona Lisa' been called 'Woman with a slightly intriguing smile: might be happy, might not, might just be wind' we'd all have a different opinion of it. The original title is a reference and no more. The latter is a description of what the artist wants the viewer to see and makes it all about the smile, rather than a picture in its own right. |
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01/05/2009 02:12:41 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by paulbtlw:
I have to say I agree with what's being said here and I think I probably won a ribbon with the help of a humorous title. I think very often if you are just presenting a photo then coming up with a title is a bit of a pain and getting rid of them in the Free Study challenges would be good. However, I think this would be a bit more difficult for the themed challenges and probably less entertaining! This for example for the sunset / sunrise challenge:
(Oops Too Late)
really made me laugh.
But for the Free Study - I'd rather we didn't have the choice to add a title. |
"Place: 166 out of 165"
Excellent work. |
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01/05/2009 02:15:16 PM · #14 |
| Maybe all my future entries should have cliche titles. How about I start off the new year with a string of shoehorn entries all titled "Window to the soul"? |
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01/05/2009 02:20:55 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Maybe all my future entries should have cliche titles. How about I start off the new year with a string of shoehorn entries all titled "Window to the soul"? |
Since I plan on actually entering some challenges this year, I think I'll name all my entries after either Ozzy Osbourne/Black Sabbath songs, or maybe Pink Floyd. |
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01/05/2009 02:34:55 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by mikeee:
Good point. However, had the 'Mona Lisa' been called 'Woman with a slightly intriguing smile: might be happy, might not, might just be wind' we'd all have a different opinion of it. The original title is a reference and no more. The latter is a description of what the artist wants the viewer to see and makes it all about the smile, rather than a picture in its own right. |
For what it's worth, if DaVinci had a title for this portrait, we don't know it. The first reference to it as "Mona Lisa" came 31 years after his death:
The painting's title stems from a description by Giorgio Vasari in his biography of Leonardo da Vinci published in 1550, 31 years after the artist's death. "Leonardo undertook to paint, for Francesco del Giocondo, the portrait of Mona Lisa, his wife...."[5] (one version in Italian: Prese Lionardo a fare per Francesco del Giocondo il ritratto di mona Lisa sua moglie).[18] In Italian, ma donna means my lady. This became madonna, and its contraction mona. Mona is thus a polite form of address, similar to Ma̢۪am, Madam, or my lady in English. In modern Italian, the short form of madonna is usually spelled Monna, so the title is sometimes Monna Lisa, rarely in English and more commonly in Romance languages such as French and Italian.
At his death in 1525, Leonardo's assistant Salai owned the portrait named in his personal papers la Gioconda which had been bequeathed to him by the artist. Italian for jocund, happy or jovial, Gioconda was a nickname for the sitter, a pun on the feminine form of her married name Giocondo and her disposition.[7][19] In French, the title La Joconde has the same double meaning.
I'm not sure this is relevant to anything, but... :-)
R.
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01/05/2009 02:40:26 PM · #17 |
A few years ago we moved the title to display below the photo*, so you don't have to read it if you don't want to.
*On the site's original voting page, the title was above the picture and loaded first -- if you were really fast (and had a 56k modem) you could theoretically vote on a title without seeing the picture.
Message edited by author 2009-01-05 14:41:05. |
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01/05/2009 02:40:53 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by mikeee:
Surely if a photo needs a title then it's not altogether coherent, and if it doesn't need a title then there's little point adding one? |
I couldn't disagree more. Where is it written that the idea of titling invalidates or cheapens a work of art? Why can't we produce images that are designed to work WITH words to harmonious effect? And, at a moor mundane level, what on earth is wrong with "Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico" or "Moon and Half Dome", simple descriptive titles that locate a landscape photograph and give a sense of particular time/place?
Have you ever considered starting a movement to "ban" the captioning of, say, editorial cartoons on the theory that if the cartoonist is "any good" he should be able to get his point across without words?
I'm not personally "after you" on this btw, a lot of people have that attitude; I just understand it, and since you're the OP you fell under my sight picture :-)
R.
Message edited by author 2009-01-05 14:41:07.
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01/05/2009 02:48:19 PM · #19 |
The only time I feel a title cheapens an image is on here. I mean any other time, its fine, but when the title is only relevent in the context of a challenge, its weak.
A descriptive title is fine by me, a witty title is fine by me, but a title that attempts to justify/validate the entry of an image into a challenge is kind of a cop out. |
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01/05/2009 03:18:04 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
what on earth is wrong with "Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico" or "Moon and Half Dome", simple descriptive titles that locate a landscape photograph and give a sense of particular time/place?
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Actually, nothing. The title adds to the picture, is descriptive of content that the viewer may or may not find interesting. It's actually accurate metadata. If the aforementioned photos were interesting and coherent in their own right then that would be even better. However, these photos don't need a title to make them work.
I don't think I'm anti-titles per se, however I was initially surprised to see all photos on this site have titles and as a result I've started to do it myself. I'm just questioning the rationale behind the concept, and whether they're actually needed or just a habit.
Message edited by author 2009-01-05 15:18:24. |
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01/05/2009 03:38:01 PM · #21 |
| Sometimes the title field is useful as more of a caption box. |
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01/05/2009 05:48:15 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Sometimes the title field is useful as more of a caption box. |
and sometimes used to detail photographic technique and/or editing steps (sheesh). Good thing my hamburger vendor doesn't lable his meat this way! |
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