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11/04/2008 12:23:43 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Basically I'm just asking for a little breathing room to raise my kids. At times it seems nearly impossible to keep one's head above water. Let's recall I'm talking about something as simple as a football game. Aren't sports supposed to be family oriented? Don't we enjoy taking our kids to the ball game, etc? Can I watch football at 2:00 in the afternoon with my eight-year old without seeing advertisements of carnage for the next video game (watch some youtube ads for True Crime: New York City) or sexually charged beer commercials. I'm not talking about 10:00 at night. I'm talking about the middle of the day on the weekend during a sporting event. I'm not asking for much.. |
So the sex and virtual violence in the commercials is getting in the way of watching the real violence on the field and the cheerleaders?
Message edited by author 2008-11-04 12:36:51. |
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11/04/2008 12:26:31 PM · #27 |
My family used to enjoy watching sports together. We watched a little of everything - football, basketball, tennis, horseracing, Olympics... you name it, we watched it. But I'd also wager that what I remember of sports is a far cry from what it is today. Now it's all "ME! ME!" particularly in team sports. No one stays with a team anymore - they go for the money, the glory. We idolize the one or two standouts to the detriment of the team.
Actually, I realize I'm just getting old. Ain't that sad.
If you really like sports, why not attend the local high school football games as a family outing? No commercials! |
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11/04/2008 12:33:48 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by yanko:
Less than the toll of curtailing more liberties? It sounds like you want to put the genie back in the bottle. However, lets say you're right and having too much freedom is a bad thing and needs to be curtailed for the sake of society. How do you suppose that happen? |
I think what needs to be done (as best as possible) is to have firm boundaries. Look at it this way. There will always be boundary pushers. That's human nature and will never cease. The controllable factor is how strong the boundary pushes back. If it's soft, we may push the boundary out significantly even in a few years. If it's firm, it may take two or three generations before the boundary is moved. I think it's possible we have been far too soft and have allowed the boundaries to be moved too far. I agree with you in some respect that we can't "put the genie back in the bottle", but it doesn't mean we can't draw the line where we currently are.
Basically I'm just asking for a little breathing room to raise my kids. At times it seems nearly impossible to keep one's head above water. Let's recall I'm talking about something as simple as a football game. Aren't sports supposed to be family oriented? Don't we enjoy taking our kids to the ball game, etc? Can I watch football at 2:00 in the afternoon with my eight-year old without seeing advertisements of carnage for the next video game (watch some youtube ads for True Crime: New York City) or sexually charged beer commercials. I'm not talking about 10:00 at night. I'm talking about the middle of the day on the weekend during a sporting event. I'm not asking for much.
I really don't let my kids watch much TV and they don't really want to. Caden likes Spongebob, Pokemon, and Mr. Men which are all pretty harmless. Sometimes we'll watch nature shows in the evening or Mythbusters, but not commonly. But the lack of restraint by advertisers during sports is hard to bear. |
I really enjoyed one football game, watching it with my 8 year old, and after about the 10th commercial on the subject he finally asked me "What is erectile dyfunction?"
My thoughts are that every generation has had issues with permatial sex and violence. The human race was violent and sexual long before video games and television. There are countries today without the multimedia options we have here that have no problem inciting violence and hatred. The cherry picking of religious texts and historical racial and religious grudges are more to blame IMO.
And teenagers of any generation never needed anything other than raging hormones as a precurser to sexual thought and activity.
Parents should be responisible for instilling values and morals in their children. Expecting any form of entertainment to be able to teach our children anything about responsibility and morality is fool hardy.
Overprotecting kids from such outside forces can backfire as well. It is human nature to be curious about things that are forbidden. I also beleive that there is much more to morality than just sex, yet most morality arguements revolve around sex, sexual images, and sexual activity.
Message edited by author 2008-11-04 12:34:48. |
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11/04/2008 12:35:49 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Basically I'm just asking for a little breathing room to raise my kids. At times it seems nearly impossible to keep one's head above water. Let's recall I'm talking about something as simple as a football game. Aren't sports supposed to be family oriented? Don't we enjoy taking our kids to the ball game, etc? Can I watch football at 2:00 in the afternoon with my eight-year old without seeing advertisements of carnage for the next video game (watch some youtube ads for True Crime: New York City) or sexually charged beer commercials. I'm not talking about 10:00 at night. I'm talking about the middle of the day on the weekend during a sporting event. I'm not asking for much.. |
So the sex and violence in the commercials is getting in the way of watching the violence on the field and the cheerleaders? |
Ouch.
This notion of creating inflexible boundaries in society is frightening, authoritarian. |
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11/04/2008 12:56:41 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Louis:
This notion of creating inflexible boundaries in society is frightening, authoritarian. |
I don't disagree with you Louis. However, that is not an argument that it may not still be worthwhile. It's a Brave New World where isolation from outside influence is impossible. I know we value liberty on this site, but sometimes one must ask "for what end?" So people can sell me their wares more effectively? For titilation and entertainment? If the outcome, as alluded by the two articles, is increased violence and younger parents, then I have to say as frightening and authoritarian as it seems to be, we have to take a look at it. |
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11/04/2008 01:01:27 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's a Brave New World where isolation from outside influence is impossible. I know we value liberty on this site, but sometimes one must ask "for what end?" So people can sell me their wares more effectively? |
Yes. That is indeed the goal. You must buy. It is the way of capitalism. If you will not buy more televisions (and by gosh, every child should have one, every ROOM should have one - never need to know when you want to catch a few more seconds of Dancing with the Stars while running for a beverage!) then they have to sell you other stuff. Viagra. Support those drug companies. You may not think you need Viagra, but really, you should buy some anyway. Just tell your doctor you need it - that'll work! Buy! Buy more! |
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11/04/2008 01:09:42 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by yanko:
Less than the toll of curtailing more liberties? It sounds like you want to put the genie back in the bottle. However, lets say you're right and having too much freedom is a bad thing and needs to be curtailed for the sake of society. How do you suppose that happen? |
I think what needs to be done (as best as possible) is to have firm boundaries. Look at it this way. There will always be boundary pushers. That's human nature and will never cease. The controllable factor is how strong the boundary pushes back. If it's soft, we may push the boundary out significantly even in a few years. If it's firm, it may take two or three generations before the boundary is moved. I think it's possible we have been far too soft and have allowed the boundaries to be moved too far. I agree with you in some respect that we can't "put the genie back in the bottle", but it doesn't mean we can't draw the line where we currently are.
Basically I'm just asking for a little breathing room to raise my kids. At times it seems nearly impossible to keep one's head above water. Let's recall I'm talking about something as simple as a football game. Aren't sports supposed to be family oriented? Don't we enjoy taking our kids to the ball game, etc? Can I watch football at 2:00 in the afternoon with my eight-year old without seeing advertisements of carnage for the next video game (watch some youtube ads for True Crime: New York City) or sexually charged beer commercials. I'm not talking about 10:00 at night. I'm talking about the middle of the day on the weekend during a sporting event. I'm not asking for much.
I really don't let my kids watch much TV and they don't really want to. Caden likes Spongebob, Pokemon, and Mr. Men which are all pretty harmless. Sometimes we'll watch nature shows in the evening or Mythbusters, but not commonly. But the lack of restraint by advertisers during sports is hard to bear. |
I really enjoyed one football game, watching it with my 8 year old, and after about the 10th commercial on the subject he finally asked me "What is erectile dyfunction?"
My thoughts are that every generation has had issues with permatial sex and violence. The human race was violent and sexual long before video games and television. There are countries today without the multimedia options we have here that have no problem inciting violence and hatred. The cherry picking of religious texts and historical racial and religious grudges are more to blame IMO.
And teenagers of any generation never needed anything other than raging hormones as a precurser to sexual thought and activity.
Parents should be responisible for instilling values and morals in their children. Expecting any form of entertainment to be able to teach our children anything about responsibility and morality is fool hardy.
Overprotecting kids from such outside forces can backfire as well. It is human nature to be curious about things that are forbidden. I also beleive that there is much more to morality than just sex, yet most morality arguements revolve around sex, sexual images, and sexual activity. |
ROFLMAO! My son went around singing "Viva Viagra" for about 2 weeks before I finally asked him not to sing it any more. I didn't want to draw attention to what he didn't know, but it got pretty embarrassing when he started singing it in the grocery store. When he asked why I didn't want him to sing it, I just said it wasn't appropriate to sing it in public and left it at that. The commercial was always on during sporting events that he would watch with my husband. |
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11/04/2008 01:14:33 PM · #33 |
I've been reading this thread with interest and I finally decided to post this link; it's dated...say 2001, but very relevant:
PBS: Merchants of Cool
even more intersting, besides the fact that you can watch the program online, is the teacher link:
Teacher Guide ...scroll to the statistics. |
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11/04/2008 01:15:45 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
ROFLMAO! My son went around singing "Viva Viagra" for about 2 weeks before I finally asked him not to sing it any more. I didn't want to draw attention to what he didn't know, but it got pretty embarrassing when he started singing it in the grocery store. When he asked why I didn't want him to sing it, I just said it wasn't appropriate to sing it in public and left it at that. The commercial was always on during sporting events that he would watch with my husband. |
I laugh when I think about something my pastor in Pittsburgh once said..."if I have to watch another guy throw a football through a tire...so help me!" |
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11/04/2008 04:15:51 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
... My son doesn't watch anything on tv that's not on cartoon network. ... |
Kelli, I did a sort of mental double-take on this line, until i realized the CN (Cartoon Network) that your son watches is probably daytime television. I watch CN later in the evening when it's full of violence and sex. :-) |
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11/04/2008 04:36:42 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by Kelli:
... My son doesn't watch anything on tv that's not on cartoon network. ... |
Kelli, I did a sort of mental double-take on this line, until i realized the CN (Cartoon Network) that your son watches is probably daytime television. I watch CN later in the evening when it's full of violence and sex. :-) |
LOL! Yeah, that's called Adult Swim, and it's off limits for him. Though, I do have to say a lot of the cartoons are violent. He likes the Japanese anima stuff. Naruto, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc. It's all fighting and while they don't curse, some of the language is questionable. But as others have stated, I can't really cut him off from all of it or he'd have nothing to talk about with other kids. |
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11/04/2008 05:24:53 PM · #37 |
I agree that TV can have an adverse affect on people (not just kids).
I'm also in line with Karmat (and others) we don't have cable. We do have a TV and over 600 movies to watch. However, our nine year-old daughter has to ask to watch something before she can. As for regular TV shows...My wife and I watch those on our laptops directly from the respective TV channels website. She does watch some shows that are more adult than her contemporaries watch. She watches M*A*S*H all the time with us. She also watches a lot of dramas. She hardly ever watches kids shows (other than the movies we own). |
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11/04/2008 05:45:09 PM · #38 |
| The progression of violence in even my lifetime is pretty stark. Anybody ever go back and watch an episode of Magnum PI or A-Team? They are almost comical now, but back then they were great. One can trace a lineage of increased violence from say Magnum PI to Miami Vice to NYPD Blue to 24. |
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11/04/2008 08:39:40 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Here's a VERY radical thought - don't watch television. I don't. Solves the whole problem of ads, violence, sex, really badly written comedy.... |
Hear! Hear! Especially the really badly written comedy part. |
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11/05/2008 10:09:17 PM · #40 |
| I think it all comes down to what you teach your children. The world is out there and it does no good to shield them from reality but if that reality is explained in the context of your own values you have done the best that you can. If you just sit down and talk with them about all of things they are likely to come into contact with and explain why it is there then they will have a foundation or perspective from which to process all of the input. When they get older they then will have to make up their own minds about what to value in entertainment and behavior. That adult world is out there and waiting for them. We would do a disservice to our children by shielding them completely from it. It simply needs to be explained. In the end this will serve them more than sheltering them from it. |
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11/05/2008 10:24:36 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Here's a VERY radical thought - don't watch television. I don't. Solves the whole problem of ads, violence, sex, really badly written comedy.... |
Not too radical..... love the idea, but I do watch some programs on Discovery and Animal planet. No more news or any other sh@t for me too. Somehow I rediscovered reading and nature.....
Difficulty for most is 'monkey see monkey do', your kids do what you did. Breaking the cycle will never be easy. Oh yea, then one must wonder if we can run away from life, become an island... I know I did. |
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11/06/2008 12:12:55 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The progression of violence in even my lifetime is pretty stark. Anybody ever go back and watch an episode of Magnum PI or A-Team? They are almost comical now, but back then they were great. One can trace a lineage of increased violence from say Magnum PI to Miami Vice to NYPD Blue to 24. |
What about the regression of actual violence?
Before TV: We kept slaves. Blacks, gays and other undesirables at the time were tortured in public places, hung in town squares. We secretly drop atom bombs on civilian populations. We also abused the mentally ill, prisoners and domestic abuse was much more accepted.
During the TV era: We started seeing what war was really like. We started protesting wars. Women and minorities started to gain equal rights. The human body started to be treated as a natural thing and not something to be ashamed of. Gays were allowed to come out of the closet and seek equal rights. We no longer experiment on the mentally ill and even prisoners are treated much more humanely.
With all of the sex and violence on TV wouldn't we be going backwards and not forward? We were much more violent before TV came about. The internet, which btw makes everything on TV look like Disney in comparision, is having an even greater effect. Obama is the result of that. The number of informed people is growing exponentially. Maybe past generations wouldn't be able to consume what we do now but not this one and not the next.
Message edited by author 2008-11-06 00:19:20. |
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11/06/2008 12:41:28 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The progression of violence in even my lifetime is pretty stark. Anybody ever go back and watch an episode of Magnum PI or A-Team? They are almost comical now, but back then they were great. One can trace a lineage of increased violence from say Magnum PI to Miami Vice to NYPD Blue to 24. |
What about the regression of actual violence?
Before TV: We kept slaves. Blacks, gays and other undesirables at the time were tortured in public places, hung in town squares. We secretly drop atom bombs on civilian populations. We also abused the mentally ill, prisoners and domestic abuse was much more accepted.
During the TV era: We started seeing what war was really like. We started protesting wars. Women and minorities started to gain equal rights. The human body started to be treated as a natural thing and not something to be ashamed of. Gays were allowed to come out of the closet and seek equal rights. We no longer experiment on the mentally ill and even prisoners are treated much more humanely.
With all of the sex and violence on TV wouldn't we be going backwards and not forward? We were much more violent before TV came about. The internet, which btw makes everything on TV look like Disney in comparision, is having an even greater effect. Obama is the result of that. The number of informed people is growing exponentially. Maybe past generations wouldn't be able to consume what we do now but not this one and not the next. |
I know you are playing devil's advocate here, but I think you are mixing a couple things in your attempt at a counterargument.
1) While we don't hang slaves during the TV era, you don't provide any evidence to say one is caused by the other. They could be "true-true unrelated". Both are true statements, but one doesn't have to do with the other.
2) Much of the violence you talked about came from other beliefs we now think to be incorrect. Blacks were not seen as truly people. I would wager there were plenty of people in that era who would go to a lynching but yet were very tender with their children. Nazi era soldiers would have do the same. The killing of their prisoners was made bearable by viewing them as inhuman. They could do this all day, but would never think twice about killing an actual "person" (ie. a non-jew).
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11/06/2008 01:06:16 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The progression of violence in even my lifetime is pretty stark. Anybody ever go back and watch an episode of Magnum PI or A-Team? They are almost comical now, but back then they were great. One can trace a lineage of increased violence from say Magnum PI to Miami Vice to NYPD Blue to 24. |
What about the regression of actual violence?
Before TV: We kept slaves. Blacks, gays and other undesirables at the time were tortured in public places, hung in town squares. We secretly drop atom bombs on civilian populations. We also abused the mentally ill, prisoners and domestic abuse was much more accepted.
During the TV era: We started seeing what war was really like. We started protesting wars. Women and minorities started to gain equal rights. The human body started to be treated as a natural thing and not something to be ashamed of. Gays were allowed to come out of the closet and seek equal rights. We no longer experiment on the mentally ill and even prisoners are treated much more humanely.
With all of the sex and violence on TV wouldn't we be going backwards and not forward? We were much more violent before TV came about. The internet, which btw makes everything on TV look like Disney in comparision, is having an even greater effect. Obama is the result of that. The number of informed people is growing exponentially. Maybe past generations wouldn't be able to consume what we do now but not this one and not the next. |
I know you are playing devil's advocate here, but I think you are mixing a couple things in your attempt at a counterargument.
1) While we don't hang slaves during the TV era, you don't provide any evidence to say one is caused by the other. They could be "true-true unrelated". Both are true statements, but one doesn't have to do with the other.
2) Much of the violence you talked about came from other beliefs we now think to be incorrect. Blacks were not seen as truly people. I would wager there were plenty of people in that era who would go to a lynching but yet were very tender with their children. Nazi era soldiers would have do the same. The killing of their prisoners was made bearable by viewing them as inhuman. They could do this all day, but would never think twice about killing an actual "person" (ie. a non-jew). |
1. Perhaps, but you took the same leap with your argument. The two links you provided do not prove a cause and effect relationship.
2. Why do you think that change of belief took place? Don't you think TV played a part? Many live by the saying "I'll believe it when I see it" well TV allowed people to do just that. TV (not to mention photography) helped to put a human face on the people we considered to be inhuman.
Message edited by author 2008-11-06 01:13:16. |
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11/06/2008 10:25:53 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by yanko:
1. Perhaps, but you took the same leap with your argument. The two links you provided do not prove a cause and effect relationship.
2. Why do you think that change of belief took place? Don't you think TV played a part? Many live by the saying "I'll believe it when I see it" well TV allowed people to do just that. TV (not to mention photography) helped to put a human face on the people we considered to be inhuman. |
The studies do not show a cause and effect, as you say, but they do show an association. When you have more of one you have more of the other. When you have less of one you have less of the other. It possible your contention is true, I just don't have any evidence we've looked at it in any formalized way. |
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11/06/2008 04:03:26 PM · #46 |
I'm about to start parent/teacher conferences & will get back to this later, but I though you folks might be interested in some concerns raised about the study in question:
//games.slashdot.org/games/08/11/06/0429242.shtml |
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11/06/2008 07:09:46 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by JMart:
I'm about to start parent/teacher conferences & will get back to this later, but I though you folks might be interested in some concerns raised about the study in question:
//games.slashdot.org/games/08/11/06/0429242.shtml |
"CNN is running a story this morning that explains new research showing a correlation between video games and aggression in children. The study monitored groups of US and Japanese children, asking them to rate their violent behavior over a period of several months while they played video games in their free time. The study concludes that it has 'pretty good evidence' that there is a link between video games and childhood aggression." Stories like this make me want to smash things.
LOL. There should be a study conducted on the media who report such studies and the violence it produces.
Message edited by author 2008-11-06 19:12:39. |
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11/06/2008 07:17:04 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Basically I'm just asking for a little breathing room to raise my kids. At times it seems nearly impossible to keep one's head above water. Let's recall I'm talking about something as simple as a football game. Aren't sports supposed to be family oriented? Don't we enjoy taking our kids to the ball game, etc? Can I watch football at 2:00 in the afternoon with my eight-year old without seeing advertisements of carnage for the next video game (watch some youtube ads for True Crime: New York City) or sexually charged beer commercials. I'm not talking about 10:00 at night. I'm talking about the middle of the day on the weekend during a sporting event. I'm not asking for much.. |
So the sex and virtual violence in the commercials is getting in the way of watching the real violence on the field and the cheerleaders? |
LOL. How did I miss this? |
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