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10/30/2008 10:32:14 AM · #626 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Flash:
Lastly, my preference is for lower taxes not more social support for those that won't help themselves... |
I've always wondered why people, Christians in particular, are so scared of helping someone who doesn't deserve it if it means lots of people who do deserve it get aid? |
If this is referencing me, then you've got this one wrong. As was discussed in another thread a while back, I have given thousands and thousands of dollars to rescue missions in my community. Christian based and donated by CHOICE. Not taken from me by a government that claims to know how to spend my money better than I do. If liberals want to help so many then why don't they donate freely to these causes instead of legislating that others have to foot the bill via higher taxes. When I look at conservatives I see a passionate community that freely donates to charitable causes. When I look at liberals, I see a group that wants my money to spend as they see fit - but won't buck up with their own donations. That is a far different scenario than the one you paint with your post. |
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10/30/2008 10:34:43 AM · #627 |
Are people claiming that the Middle Class is lazy...uh oh.
The scare tactics are really starting to drill my nerves and so is Joe The Bozo.
I wonder how the newly energized first time voters will react if Obama loses? I think it will be like a swift hatchet whack that might irrepairebly divide the country.
If we can't move away from the "old boy network" of privileged frat boys now...will we ever?
I personally think we need a mega-jolt from the present mindset in Washington and McCain won't be a fraction of the Maverick he claims to be if elected. |
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10/30/2008 10:38:54 AM · #628 |
Originally posted by Prash:
Lets go one by one since you like things organized. Name just one DPCer per category for each adjective below, and then bring your proof. You said it, so you prove it:
[1] Athiest. Name of the DPCer and proof.
[2] Gay. Name of the DPCer and proof.
Then link these proofs to them being liberal.
Can you? |
Surely you are not serious. Without my help (as it was so obvious), the minimal requirement (name one) has been answered. Any cursory reading of a number of posts would list several usernames that consistently post in opposition to traditional conservative positions. You are fully capable of drawing the same associative conclusions as I have. |
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10/30/2008 10:39:28 AM · #629 |
Originally posted by Flash:
If this is referencing me, then you've got this one wrong.... |
How's your photography coming along? |
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10/30/2008 10:46:35 AM · #630 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
Well, what Flash said was:
Originally posted by Flash's Quote as quoted by BeeCee:
Preferably international liberal threads where the lefty atheist gay Obama supporting socialist outnumber us conservatives |
Honestly, that's probably true, if not very delicately put. Most threads I've encountered Flash in, he's been outnumber by people who would seem to support the left, atheism, gay rights, and Obama. Socialism might be a stretch, but maybe not. What Flash should probably be more concerned about is that beyond these threads, he's probably outnumbered in the world at large if not yet in the US. |
Regardless of whether you accept this or not, your stance in this post has given you immense respect with me. To actually type what was obviously true in the midst of this pool of sharks is remarkable to me. Few in my opinion would have done so. Especially for one whom they most assuredly disagreed with on so many positions. |
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10/30/2008 10:49:45 AM · #631 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by Flash:
If this is referencing me, then you've got this one wrong.... |
How's your photography coming along? |
I have had the good fortune to secure both a front and back cover of an upcoming monthly plus an 8x17 2 page internal and several article photos. I am actually very happy about that. Additionally, I've recently returned from an out of state trip where I got to shoot some wildlife. |
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10/30/2008 11:38:02 AM · #632 |
Originally posted by Flash:
[ When I look at conservatives I see a passionate community that freely donates to charitable causes. When I look at liberals, I see a group that wants my money to spend as they see fit - but won't buck up with their own donations. That is a far different scenario than the one you paint with your post. |
I shall work on the premise that you don't personally know any liberals and that you know even less about the contribution they make to society.
Ray |
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10/30/2008 11:38:59 AM · #633 |
Originally posted by Flash:
[quote=DrAchoo] As was discussed in another thread a while back, I have given thousands and thousands of dollars to rescue missions in my community. Christian based and donated by CHOICE. Not taken from me by a government that claims to know how to spend my money better than I do. If liberals want to help so many then why don't they donate freely to these causes instead of legislating that others have to foot the bill via higher taxes. When I look at conservatives I see a passionate community that freely donates to charitable causes. When I look at liberals, I see a group that wants my money to spend as they see fit - but won't buck up with their own donations. That is a far different scenario than the one you paint with your post. |
Here is an example from which I speak. I know it is from FOX news and will be slammed by manny here - but the point is that Obama wants me to pay for his Aunts housing delemna and his long lost Uncle, while he spends millions on half hour propaganda advertisements and fails to help his own family. I just don't get it. In my house, we are helping family that is troubled in these economic times and will continue to do so. Why can't Obama do the same? I just don't trust him. Where have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters been during his campaign? Do they not support him or does the Obama campaign have them on a short leash so as not to remind us voters of the bitterness spewed by the left. |
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10/30/2008 11:39:27 AM · #634 |
Originally posted by Flash:
If this is referencing me, then you've got this one wrong. As was discussed in another thread a while back, I have given thousands and thousands of dollars to rescue missions in my community. Christian based and donated by CHOICE. Not taken from me by a government that claims to know how to spend my money better than I do. If liberals want to help so many then why don't they donate freely to these causes instead of legislating that others have to foot the bill via higher taxes. When I look at conservatives I see a passionate community that freely donates to charitable causes. When I look at liberals, I see a group that wants my money to spend as they see fit - but won't buck up with their own donations. That is a far different scenario than the one you paint with your post. |
I don't think this rings true. How are the liberals taking your money and not theirs? I've yet to see a tax law that singles out Republicans. I can certainly appreciate the fundamental view that the Church should step up to the plate and take care of social justice. The only problem is that as the Church, we've failed. The vast majority of our tithes, in my view, go toward comfortable chairs, multimedia projectors, sound equipment, rent and payroll. Who's that helping? It's helping the very people who are giving. The average budget % of a typical church probably gives 5-10% to programs designed to help those outside the church. At least that's the case with the budgets I've seen. Quite unfortunate and the very reason I give the majority of my tithe directly to humanitarian missions work.
But you are changing your whole argument. Now you are saying you know better than the government. Before you were saying undeserving people were getting aid. |
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10/30/2008 11:40:31 AM · #635 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by Flash:
[quote=DrAchoo] As was discussed in another thread a while back, I have given thousands and thousands of dollars to rescue missions in my community. Christian based and donated by CHOICE. Not taken from me by a government that claims to know how to spend my money better than I do. If liberals want to help so many then why don't they donate freely to these causes instead of legislating that others have to foot the bill via higher taxes. When I look at conservatives I see a passionate community that freely donates to charitable causes. When I look at liberals, I see a group that wants my money to spend as they see fit - but won't buck up with their own donations. That is a far different scenario than the one you paint with your post. |
Here is an example from which I speak. I know it is from FOX news and will be slammed by manny here - but the point is that Obama wants me to pay for his Aunts housing delemna and his long lost Uncle, while he spends millions on half hour propaganda advertisements and fails to help his own family. I just don't get it. In my house, we are helping family that is troubled in these economic times and will continue to do so. Why can't Obama do the same? I just don't trust him. Where have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters been during his campaign? Do they not support him or does the Obama campaign have them on a short leash so as not to remind us voters of the bitterness spewed by the left. |
You are kidding right? The million spent on the TV show couldn't have been used to help his aunt. That would have been illegal. Duh. |
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10/30/2008 11:43:42 AM · #636 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by eqsite:
Well, what Flash said was:
Originally posted by Flash's Quote as quoted by BeeCee:
Preferably international liberal threads where the lefty atheist gay Obama supporting socialist outnumber us conservatives |
Honestly, that's probably true, if not very delicately put. Most threads I've encountered Flash in, he's been outnumber by people who would seem to support the left, atheism, gay rights, and Obama. Socialism might be a stretch, but maybe not. What Flash should probably be more concerned about is that beyond these threads, he's probably outnumbered in the world at large if not yet in the US. |
Regardless of whether you accept this or not, your stance in this post has given you immense respect with me. To actually type what was obviously true in the midst of this pool of sharks is remarkable to me. Few in my opinion would have done so. Especially for one whom they most assuredly disagreed with on so many positions. |
Perhaps, then, there is the possibility of building bridges across the great social divide in this country. Most liberals are not the ugly monsters we are often portrayed as, just as most conservatives aren't either. This is what grates on me more than anything -- the idea that just because your ideology is at odds with mine doesn't make you evil or stupid. It might make you wrong (in my opinion), but as soon as you label someone, it becomes far too easy to dismiss their point of view. I've had very useful debates with people on this site with whom I disagree and it's made me challenge my assumptions, and hopefully it's made them challenge theirs as well. I would hope that you would be equally open to challenging your assumptions about those of us on the left. |
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10/30/2008 11:49:20 AM · #637 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Flash:
[ When I look at conservatives I see a passionate community that freely donates to charitable causes. When I look at liberals, I see a group that wants my money to spend as they see fit - but won't buck up with their own donations. That is a far different scenario than the one you paint with your post. |
I shall work on the premise that you don't personally know any liberals and that you know even less about the contribution they make to society.
Ray |
Ray - I know some liberals. I further know that my typed words are not read as I intend them. John Kerry is a liberal. A national liberal. I forget now which nationally known liberals were used as the example but they did not even donate as much to charity as I do - yet they make millions compared to my paltry wages. A study done and discussed in these threads a while back compared conservative donations to liberal donations and found by "x" percentage that conservatives donated more. My point is simply that the liberal platform is to take money from others to pay for their causes while the conservative platform is for each to support the causes of their choice. To me, I prefer the later. I think it is the better formula. The argument from the left often is - "some programs would not be funded if it was left up to charity alone" and I say then don't fund them. They must not be too important if no one wants to donate money to them. If they are that important, then liberals should be clamouring to donate. They have no problem funding the most expensive campaign in history raising nearly 600 million dollars for Obama. Certainly they can donate to their local charities. |
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10/30/2008 11:54:15 AM · #638 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by Flash:
[quote=DrAchoo] As was discussed in another thread a while back, I have given thousands and thousands of dollars to rescue missions in my community. Christian based and donated by CHOICE. Not taken from me by a government that claims to know how to spend my money better than I do. If liberals want to help so many then why don't they donate freely to these causes instead of legislating that others have to foot the bill via higher taxes. When I look at conservatives I see a passionate community that freely donates to charitable causes. When I look at liberals, I see a group that wants my money to spend as they see fit - but won't buck up with their own donations. That is a far different scenario than the one you paint with your post. |
Here is an example from which I speak. I know it is from FOX news and will be slammed by manny here - but the point is that Obama wants me to pay for his Aunts housing delemna and his long lost Uncle, while he spends millions on half hour propaganda advertisements and fails to help his own family. I just don't get it. In my house, we are helping family that is troubled in these economic times and will continue to do so. Why can't Obama do the same? I just don't trust him. Where have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters been during his campaign? Do they not support him or does the Obama campaign have them on a short leash so as not to remind us voters of the bitterness spewed by the left. |
You are kidding right? The million spent on the TV show couldn't have been used to help his aunt. That would have been illegal. Duh. |
You mistook my words. The millions that made the TV add possible were donated and could have just as easily been donated to any number of charities. The fact the money was raised is proof that the capital is freely available - for causes that the people believe in. Further, Obama is a millionaire himself. He easily could afford to "help" his relatives if he choose. His campaign says it our patriotic duty - yet Obama apparently doesn't feel it is his to help his own relations. |
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10/30/2008 12:03:01 PM · #639 |
Originally posted by Flash:
You mistook my words. The millions that made the TV add possible were donated and could have just as easily been donated to any number of charities. The fact the money was raised is proof that the capital is freely available - for causes that the people believe in. Further, Obama is a millionaire himself. He easily could afford to "help" his relatives if he choose. His campaign says it our patriotic duty - yet Obama apparently doesn't feel it is his to help his own relations. |
One question is how the article indicates whether his aunt wants help? She may be perfectly happy even though the FOX reporter (Actually it was Times of London which seems even stranger) uses the word "rundown" to describe her neighborhood. The other question is how we know he hasn't already helped her? How do you know he's not paying her rent? How do you know he doesn't pay her grocery bill? All I see is that someone found Aunt Zeituni living in Boston and she was able to give her nephew's campaign $260.
Uncle Omar looks to be in worse shape, but the article acknowleges they don't even know if it's really the same person mentioned in the book. It also doesn't mention if Omar wants help, talks to his nephew, hates his nephew, or what? Family situations are complicated, of course.
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 12:03:34. |
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10/30/2008 12:07:05 PM · #640 |
Oh please Flash, if it were the republicans who were given the millions Obama has they would be pounding the message that Obama is a terrorist on every news channel, every newspaper daily, online, etc to no end. If indeed the republicans did have Obama's money I wonder how much of it was going to feed the homeless?
You're lying just as your party lies about everything else. Sorry. You're just repeating what your leaders are saying and I understand that.
Jesse Jackson and Sharpton are not in the same class as Obama and they know it. They're keeping they're distance out of respect because they know how important these elections are to your nation. jmi |
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10/30/2008 12:07:46 PM · #641 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
the very reason I give the majority of my tithe directly to humanitarian missions work.
But you are changing your whole argument. Now you are saying you know better than the government. Before you were saying undeserving people were getting aid. |
1. Exactly. I do not donate to any particular church either - specifically because of your reasons. I do support christian based charities (even non-christian based charities) but ones that have low overhead and a track record of the money going to where itv is intended.
2. I am not aware of a position change. I still feel very strongly about abuse of the social suppoprt systems. Please remember my experience is primarily within my area and the rampant abuse makes me sick. There was a poster on one of the threads a while back with very specific evidence as he worked within the system. He was ridiculed and chastized - eventhough his examples were point on. Thus another of my conclusions on the nastiness from the left. This person was merely telling it like it really was, and he got slammed by liberals. Unfair and wrong. |
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10/30/2008 12:12:20 PM · #642 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Oh please Flash, if it were the republicans who were given the millions Obama has they would be pounding the message that Obama is a terrorist on every news channel, every newspaper daily, online, etc to no end. |
If Republicans had the money Obama has, the left would be charging them with "buying the election". |
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10/30/2008 12:15:17 PM · #643 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Please remember my experience is primarily within my area and the rampant abuse makes me sick. |
Frankly, if you are driving a Hummer, I doubt you really have much experience. Is Exhibit A of your evidence of "rampant abuse" the folks who hold the cardboard signs begging for cash at the freeway exits? You can correct me and give me your street cred concerning the gritty reality of life...
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 12:16:22. |
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10/30/2008 12:16:21 PM · #644 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Flash:
You mistook my words. The millions that made the TV add possible were donated and could have just as easily been donated to any number of charities. The fact the money was raised is proof that the capital is freely available - for causes that the people believe in. Further, Obama is a millionaire himself. He easily could afford to "help" his relatives if he choose. His campaign says it our patriotic duty - yet Obama apparently doesn't feel it is his to help his own relations. |
One question is how the article indicates whether his aunt wants help? She may be perfectly happy even though the FOX reporter (Actually it was Times of London which seems even stranger) uses the word "rundown" to describe her neighborhood. The other question is how we know he hasn't already helped her? How do you know he's not paying her rent? How do you know he doesn't pay her grocery bill? All I see is that someone found Aunt Zeituni living in Boston and she was able to give her nephew's campaign $260.
Uncle Omar looks to be in worse shape, but the article acknowleges they don't even know if it's really the same person mentioned in the book. It also doesn't mention if Omar wants help, talks to his nephew, hates his nephew, or what? Family situations are complicated, of course. |
You are correct in one respect - I do not know if Obama has offered help. I do know that Obama feels that every citizen deserves a certain standard of living, health care, wages etc. I wonder if his relatives conditions are the standard he wants for all of us. If not, then he should have elevated them - as he is of the class "that can afford it". |
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10/30/2008 12:17:22 PM · #645 |
Originally posted by Flash:
You are correct in one respect - I do not know if Obama has offered help. I do know that Obama feels that every citizen deserves a certain standard of living, health care, wages etc. I wonder if his relatives conditions are the standard he wants for all of us. If not, then he should have elevated them - as he is of the class "that can afford it". |
And you're basing this whole argument on the fact three reporters from London used the word "rundown" for Aunt Zeituni's neighborhood? Have you ever been to Southie? I have.
Message edited by author 2008-10-30 12:18:23. |
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10/30/2008 12:22:28 PM · #646 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Prash:
"..lefty atheist gay Obama supporting socialist" |
Didn't he just mean Louis? ;) |
For some reason I feel obligated to point out that I have overtly described myself with only one of these five adjectives around these parts. Maybe two. |
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10/30/2008 12:24:53 PM · #647 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Flash:
Please remember my experience is primarily within my area and the rampant abuse makes me sick. |
Frankly, if you are driving a Hummer, I doubt you really have much experience. Is Exhibit A of your evidence of "rampant abuse" the folks who hold the cardboard signs begging for cash at the freeway exits? You can correct me and give me your street cred concerning the gritty reality of life... |
You can question my "street cred" - but 3 decades of working in rat infested neighboorhoods, with coworkers describing event after event of how they get over on the system is enough eveidence for me. |
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10/30/2008 12:27:10 PM · #648 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Flash:
You are correct in one respect - I do not know if Obama has offered help. I do know that Obama feels that every citizen deserves a certain standard of living, health care, wages etc. I wonder if his relatives conditions are the standard he wants for all of us. If not, then he should have elevated them - as he is of the class "that can afford it". |
And you're basing this whole argument on the fact three reporters from London used the word "rundown" for Aunt Zeituni's neighborhood? Have you ever been to Southie? I have. |
Yes.
No. |
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10/30/2008 12:32:48 PM · #649 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Prash:
"..lefty atheist gay Obama supporting socialist" |
Didn't he just mean Louis? ;) |
For some reason I feel obligated to point out that I have overtly described myself with only one of these five adjectives around these parts. Maybe two. |
Well, you live in Canada. I figured that makes you a socialist. ;) I'll stop now. You know I meant it as a friendly joke. |
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10/30/2008 12:33:45 PM · #650 |
Originally posted by Flash:
I do know that Obama feels that every citizen deserves a certain standard of living, health care, wages etc. I wonder if his relatives conditions are the standard he wants for all of us. If not, then he should have elevated them - as he is of the class "that can afford it". |
You seem to be repeatedly suggesting handouts– the very thing you rail against- rather than programs to help people help themselves. By trumpeting your charitable contributions and suggesting that Obama should personally give money to poorer relatives, you are advocating wealth distribution and handouts. Not everyone has a rich uncle or a voice for their plight, and it does far more good to provide opportunities and incentives (to discourage freeloaders) to help everyone get on their feet and become productive than limiting aid to relatives and pet projects of the wealthy. That approach came back to bite us pretty hard in Afghanistan. |
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