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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Really nice, even, white backgrounds
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 12/03/2003 03:27:48 PM · #1
Any suggestions for getting really nice, even, white backgrounds on pictures? What's the best way to get that?

Thanks !!!

Ursula
 12/03/2003 03:36:16 PM · #2
On what kind of shots?

Usually, a white sweep or cove, evenly lit with a couple of lights will do the trick, but there are other ways to get there depending on the situation.

Originally posted by uabresch:
Any suggestions for getting really nice, even, white backgrounds on pictures? What's the best way to get that?

Thanks !!!

Ursula

 12/03/2003 03:39:14 PM · #3
If you start out with an almost-white background, say a piece of printer paper for a still life, you can use the Levels tool in Photoshop and set the white point manually. Just select levels, click the white icon, then click on the darkest part of the background. Everything that is lighter than that point will become white.

You have to be careful with this method because some of the areas in your object may be blown out also. If that happens, then you need to select only the background without your object, but that would be against dpc rules.

Message edited by author 2003-12-03 15:40:29.
 12/03/2003 03:43:38 PM · #4
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
On what kind of shots?

Usually, a white sweep or cove, evenly lit with a couple of lights will do the trick, but there are other ways to get there depending on the situation.

Originally posted by uabresch:
Any suggestions for getting really nice, even, white backgrounds on pictures? What's the best way to get that?

Thanks !!!

Ursula


For shots where I'm trying to get an object and its shadow. For example, something like a fork or a feather, and its shadow. I've been using white paper (like for drawing), but it tends to come out greyish, even when I adjust the white point on the camera.
 12/03/2003 03:45:20 PM · #5
Originally posted by Zal:
If you start out with an almost-white background, say a piece of printer paper for a still life, you can use the Levels tool in Photoshop and set the white point manually. Just select levels, click the white icon, then click on the darkest part of the background. Everything that is lighter than that point will become white.

You have to be careful with this method because some of the areas in your object may be blown out also. If that happens, then you need to select only the background without your object, but that would be against dpc rules.


Thank you. I've tried it this way, but, you're right, it tends to blow out parts of the object.


12/03/2003 03:47:32 PM · #6
Originally posted by uabresch:
Any suggestions for getting really nice, even, white backgrounds on pictures? What's the best way to get that?

Thanks !!!

Ursula


It depends on what you are currently getting.

If your backgrounds are currently grey and 'dirty' then your main problem is that you are underexposing. You can improve the result in photoshop using levels and so on, but best results are achieved by correct exposure in the first place.
 12/03/2003 04:06:03 PM · #7
White is tough I am usually taking portraits and have a yellowish background so i blow it out with light behind subject...
and i do not want shadows so your challenge is extra hard, no advice just understanding how hard it is.. when you figure it out let us know
12/03/2003 04:06:55 PM · #8
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by uabresch:
Any suggestions for getting really nice, even, white backgrounds on pictures? What's the best way to get that?

Thanks !!!

Ursula


It depends on what you are currently getting.

If your backgrounds are currently grey and 'dirty' then your main problem is that you are underexposing. You can improve the result in photoshop using levels and so on, but best results are achieved by correct exposure in the first place.


The backgrounds are grey and dirty. I am compensating white balance for + 0.3, and setting the white balance to custom according to the background. Yet, still grey and dirty looking, especially at the edges of the picture.

So, let's say at f8, if I decrease the shutter speed that might help?
 12/03/2003 04:08:27 PM · #9
Originally posted by rll07:
White is tough I am usually taking portraits and have a yellowish background so i blow it out with light behind subject...
and i do not want shadows so your challenge is extra hard, no advice just understanding how hard it is.. when you figure it out let us know


I do want the shadows very much. I'm thinking of small objects, e.g. a feather or a fork, on a white background - where the picture is both of the object and its shadow. In this case lights wouldn't work (but I'll remember that if I ever try to take a portrait).
 12/03/2003 04:10:39 PM · #10
one thought you could shoot on color background like yellow or purple and do a change color in photoshop?
i.e. the background is yellow, your shadow shows up and then in photoshop slect the yellow and change to white.(assuming yellow is not a color in your subject)..might work
12/03/2003 04:12:11 PM · #11
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by uabresch:
Any suggestions for getting really nice, even, white backgrounds on pictures? What's the best way to get that?

Thanks !!!

Ursula


It depends on what you are currently getting.

If your backgrounds are currently grey and 'dirty' then your main problem is that you are underexposing. You can improve the result in photoshop using levels and so on, but best results are achieved by correct exposure in the first place.


I agree with Gordon.

If the background is grey and the subject is well lit, you can pump more light onto just the background to whiten it. If the subject is dark and the background is grey, then the underexposure is in the whole image.

Try using a handheld meter (if you have one) or a gray card with your camera's meter and meter different areas of the same scene. It should all be even across the white background.

Can you post an example?
 12/03/2003 04:13:20 PM · #12
taking a mostly white are _ say fuzzyly white
or blck for that matter
using the selective color tool you can decrease the
black/ yellow that whites contain
and increase the black of the blacks

an exmple of the black end of the deal


this was a very fuzzy black before i boosted the black level up using slelective color
 12/03/2003 04:14:03 PM · #13
I use the white point technique and it seams to work quite well in most circumstances.

12/03/2003 04:19:04 PM · #14
OK, thank you all for the answers. White point works to some extent, if the greyish is not too bad, but it does tend to blow out the image. I am wondering about selective colour. I am not familiar with this (just shows how much I have to learn :)) How would you use that?

I must say though that my preference would be to take the picture as close to white background as possible, and not depend on post-processing to get it white. To whiten it a bit, fix it in spots, yes, but it seems to me the best approach would be to have it as close to what you want in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong?
 12/03/2003 04:20:42 PM · #15
Pardon my many questions, but I'm wondering also about the mention to grey card. How in the world would you use a grey card?
 12/03/2003 04:21:40 PM · #16
On my past challenge image ( no edits allowed) i used a white bed sheet, a long exposure and directing the flash at the bed sheet to get a solid white even back ground.

remember this image is totally un edited, except for resizing.



James

Message edited by author 2003-12-03 16:22:31.
 12/03/2003 04:23:03 PM · #17
Example of what I'm trying to "fix"

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=49494

Message edited by author 2003-12-03 16:24:33.
 12/03/2003 04:25:57 PM · #18
Originally posted by jab119:
On my past challenge image ( no edits allowed) i used a white bed sheet, a long exposure and directing the flash at the bed sheet to get a solid white even back ground.

remember this image is totally un edited, except for resizing.



James


That is a beautiful white background. I've been admiring it. But, I want it closer in, with shadows showing.
12/03/2003 04:28:48 PM · #19
Originally posted by uabresch:
Pardon my many questions, but I'm wondering also about the mention to grey card. How in the world would you use a grey card?


I have never done it, but the grey card is used in this manor.

Take a photo of the grey card near your subject and the same lighting that is on your subject. Then set your camera to manual white balance and chose that image of the grey card to set the white ballance, then take the photo of your subject and every thing should be ok.

the procedure may be a little bit different for your camera....what i mentioned was for the Canon D60, but your owners manual should tell you how to do this.

James
 12/03/2003 04:41:11 PM · #20
in photoshop - image/adjust/selective color - choose 'whites' from the drop down
worked on a duplicate layer - removed all the black from the whites
then did it a second time - 25secs or so...




EDIT - could it be the white balance setting you are using in the camera?


Message edited by author 2003-12-03 16:42:20.
 12/03/2003 04:48:17 PM · #21
Originally posted by soup:
in photoshop - image/adjust/selective color - choose 'whites' from the drop down
worked on a duplicate layer - removed all the black from the whites
then did it a second time - 25secs or so...




EDIT - could it be the white balance setting you are using in the camera?


Thank you. That seemed to work quite well. I'll have to see if I can do something similar in PSP.

It might very well be the camera settings. That's why the grey card thing is interesting.
 12/03/2003 04:50:53 PM · #22
well, you have a white balance setting in camera for different types of light

if say you have it set at tungston light - blues will be accentuated
also - if the saturation or contrast settings have been adjusted in camera - it would alter all shots taken to the same degree.

i would agree to get it as right as possible with the camera - but...
also this would not have worked well had the subject contained grey/whites - then they would have been effected as well.
12/03/2003 04:51:40 PM · #23
Originally posted by uabresch:
Example of what I'm trying to "fix"

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=49494


This is just underexposed.

The scene is mostly white on average.

Your camera exposure meter tries to make any scene as an average mid grey tonality. No matter what you point it at (ignoring matrix/ evaluative modes that try to understand more about the image)

You need to compensate for the fact that the scene is all white - something around +1.5EV or so should give better results - you'll need to adjust to get the final correct exposure.

Any good book on exposure will explain this in more detail - I think the tutorial on here even talks about it.
 12/03/2003 04:53:16 PM · #24
Simpleton that I am, I'll plug Photoshop CS. The shadow/highlight feature selectively chooses highlights, and you can adjust accordingly. it'll leave your shadows alone - in fact, it'll let you darken them if you like. ;)

it's simple with this adjustment.

Pedro
 12/03/2003 04:55:04 PM · #25
Also note, that white balance has nothing to do with getting a correct exposure.

White balance is used to compensate for different light temperatures, which introduces colour shifts in the image.

In this image, the white background is essentially grey - no colour shift, just under exposed.

You could add lots of extra lights, and your camera will still expose it as grey until you change the settings - it'll just get you the grey image at a faster shutter speed with more light.

Message edited by author 2003-12-03 17:00:26.
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