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10/27/2008 04:29:17 PM · #401 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
Oh, and  Flash, in our house we are going to adopt the Bush/McCain Halloween strategy -- we're going to buy out all of the candy from the local stores, and then when kids show up, we'll turn off all of the lights and pretend we're not at home. |
At least you have enough sense not to teach your youngsters the philosophy of; "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" or were you being facetious? You do intend to demonstrate to your children the very principles and core of "spread the wealth" don't you? If you are not going to practice it in your own home, then don't practice it in mine. |
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10/27/2008 04:32:04 PM · #402 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by eqsite:
Oh, and Flash, in our house we are going to adopt the Bush/McCain Halloween strategy -- we're going to buy out all of the candy from the local stores, and then when kids show up, we'll turn off all of the lights and pretend we're not at home. |
At least you have enough sense not to teach your youngsters the philosophy of; "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" or were you being facetious? You do intend to demonstrate to your children the very principles and core of "spread the wealth" don't you? If you are not going to practice it in your own home, then don't practice it in mine. |
I will most certainly teach my daughter the value of helping others who can't help themselves. As she's only 2 right now, it's a difficult concept for her to get her mind around, but she seems to already be doing a better job of it than most pundits I see on tv. |
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10/27/2008 04:32:47 PM · #403 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by eqsite:
If felons can serve in Congress, why shouldn't they be allowed to vote?
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Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:
* 29 have been accused of spousal abuse
* 7 have been arrested for fraud
* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks
* 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
* 3 have done time for assault
* 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting
* 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
* 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year...
Can you guess which organization this is?
It's the 535 members of the United States Congress.
The same group that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line. |
Thats hilarious yet sad. Can you share the source? I would love to link it from my blog.
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10/27/2008 04:35:28 PM · #404 |
Originally posted by Flash:
The same group that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line. |
It is perhaps sadder that this is not a new phenomenon ...
"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctively native American criminal class except Congress."
--Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
Message edited by author 2008-10-27 16:43:02. |
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10/27/2008 04:45:30 PM · #405 |
Flash, your analogy reflects a very poor understanding, if not utter ignorance, of the strategy. Obama's plan cuts taxes for all but the absolute wealthiest people, and there's really no other choice. It's simple math. The money for wars, financial bailouts and economic stimulus packages has to come from somewhere, and you simply cannot cut enough money from the Federal budget to give everyone a tax cut while paying for that. All the earmarks, pork barrel spending and foreign aid combined wouldn't even come close. It's would require axing huge sums from the biggest government expenses: defense, social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. If you're not going to take it from there, then it has to come from the people, and I nominate YOU to explain to a family working three or more jobs just to make ends meet that they're going to have to give up more to avoid a fractional increase in the taxes of a millionaire.
Take an already-imbalanced budget, add a $1 trillion war, a $700 billion economic bailout, a $168 billion stimulus package, and tack on little details like homeland security, rebuilding New Orleans, dwindling social security, aging infrastructure, global warming, and rising energy demands, etc... and then cut ALL taxes on top of that. McCain's plan isn't redistributing wealth, it's stealing it from our children and grandchildren who will be left with the bill.
Message edited by author 2008-10-27 16:56:25. |
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10/27/2008 04:58:13 PM · #406 |
Originally posted by Flash:
I expect any Obama supporters who have children will be establishing a learning lesson this Friday by demonstrating the principles of taking from those that have and giving to those who don't - by insisting that their children accept the confiscation of a portion of their earnings (candy) and the redistribution of said earnings to those who didn't expend the effort of going door to door.
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What a horrible, off base, warped analogy. WTG! |
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10/27/2008 05:12:01 PM · #407 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by Flash:
I expect any Obama supporters who have children will be establishing a learning lesson this Friday by demonstrating the principles of taking from those that have and giving to those who don't - by insisting that their children accept the confiscation of a portion of their earnings (candy) and the redistribution of said earnings to those who didn't expend the effort of going door to door.
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What a horrible, off base, warped analogy. WTG! |
I second that. This is a terrible analogy.. no matter what the author was trying to convey.
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10/27/2008 05:17:12 PM · #408 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by eqsite:
If felons can serve in Congress, why shouldn't they be allowed to vote?
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Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:
* 29 have been accused of spousal abuse
* 7 have been arrested for fraud
* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks
* 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
* 3 have done time for assault
* 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting
* 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
* 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year...
Can you guess which organization this is?
It's the 535 members of the United States Congress.
The same group that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line. |
Maybe funny, but not totally true Here is Snopes' take on it.
Congress |
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10/27/2008 06:00:09 PM · #409 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by Flash:
I expect any Obama supporters who have children will be establishing a learning lesson this Friday by demonstrating the principles of taking from those that have and giving to those who don't - by insisting that their children accept the confiscation of a portion of their earnings (candy) and the redistribution of said earnings to those who didn't expend the effort of going door to door.
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What a horrible, off base, warped analogy. WTG! |
ROFL! Actually as horrible as an analogy it is, we do practice this at my house and have done so for 20 years. The kids do the treat or treating and the adults (us) eat the candy. And the funniest part is my son doesn't even mind. He'd rather have an apple than a piece of chocolate. The fun for him is in getting the candy, not eating it. |
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10/27/2008 06:12:06 PM · #410 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by Flash:
I expect any Obama supporters who have children will be establishing a learning lesson this Friday by demonstrating the principles of taking from those that have and giving to those who don't - by insisting that their children accept the confiscation of a portion of their earnings (candy) and the redistribution of said earnings to those who didn't expend the effort of going door to door.
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What a horrible, off base, warped analogy. WTG! |
I confiscate 10% of candy collected by my son, nephew and niece on Halloween. I tell them its to teach them about church tithes and income taxes. they think both suck. My dad says I'm turning them into republicans ;P
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10/27/2008 07:21:28 PM · #411 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
The fun for him is in getting the candy, not eating it. |
Maybe he would like participating in the Trick-Or-Treat for UNICEF program, as I did when I was a kid. |
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10/27/2008 07:29:21 PM · #412 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Kelli:
The fun for him is in getting the candy, not eating it. |
Maybe he would like participating in the Trick-Or-Treat for UNICEF program, as I did when I was a kid. |
LOL! I used to do this too. I had him do this the year before last, and it was a big fight. He has a money thing, where he doesn't like to give it up. I ended up having to match the amount that he collected and giving it to him. So, until he grows up a little more we won't be trying it again.
edit to clarify... I sent in what he collected, but had to give him an equal amount for himself.
Message edited by author 2008-10-27 19:30:26. |
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10/27/2008 07:44:12 PM · #413 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
edit to clarify... I sent in what he collected, but had to give him an equal amount for himself. |
Clearly he's been paying too much attention to Wall Street and not enough to Main Street ... ;-) |
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10/28/2008 12:09:26 AM · #414 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
I again feel insulted... I don't believe that I have ever stated that women are unamazing, unresourceful, unintelligent, and powerless individuals. This is slander (libel from a legal perspective as it is written) Mr. Jeb. I'll expect an apology.
edit to add legal definition |
Okay.....if that's the way you want to respond to an opinion you don't like, fine.
Go ahead and try and sue me, when you start spouting theoretical legal activity over an impression that you made on me, we're done.
I will certainly not apologize for telling you I think your views on women are way off.
The women that are friends of mine would find most of your views at least ridiculous,
and more likely condescending and clueless.
BTW, from a legal standpoint, you cannot sue someone for stating an opinion......well, I take that back, you can sue someone for just about anything, whether or not you'll win is another thing entirely.
Good luck with your attitudes. |
I am not going to sue you, you big goof (i mean that in an endearing way). I just don't think your statement was fair or accurate. I think women are indeed amazing and wonderful creations of God. I have the utmost respect for their power and resourcefulness. Please tell me exactly where you think my views are way off. I would genuinely be interested in your thoughts. Please base your comments on what I have said however and not some vague idea of what you might think I would think. |
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10/28/2008 12:25:13 AM · #415 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
It's caused by our society at large setting an extremely bad example of what adulthood means: promiscuous pre-marital sex, violence is glorified. |
Promiscuous pre marital sex; when are you going to let go of that one? You can't dictate to teenagers that nature's calling is dirty and un-natural, you accomplish the opposite of what you're trying to teach with that line of thought and you risk losing your child's respect because they'll probably learn from somewhere else that their natural tendencies are completely normal and accepted by almost everyone the world over except those who let old demystified religions grab a hold of how they live their lives. All you're doing is setting yourselves up for disappointment by ignoring nature and the reason for you being alive today. (not saying your parents had you out of wedlock, just stipulating the fact that sexual attraction is normal)
violence is glorified...hmm
Massacres of Indian Independence (1947, Hindu vs. Muslim)
Thirty Years War (Christians, Catholics vs. Protestants, Germany, 1618 to 1648)
Russian Pogroms (Christians killing Jews, Medieval times to 20th century)
Sudanese Civil War (1983 to present, Muslims vs. Christians and Animist rebels)
St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (1572: Lyon, France: Catholics killing Protestants)
Ivory Coast (present day, Christians vs. Muslims)
East Timor (1970s to present day, Muslims mainly killing Christians)
Here's a link that lists many present day conflicts that are based on religious views. See if you can spot the ones without violence involved. Find me a list of non-violent religious conflicts please.
eta! I derailed what I tried to redirect earlier. Damn %^$(&%$*#&$ religion! grrr Rid me of it and cleanse my mind of this filth for good someone please??? |
I would take issue with your stance on promiscuous sex in the fact that it is not good for the individuals or society irregardless of religion. It is how we get babies that the parents don't want and can't raise effectively. It is how disease is spread. It is often thusly how lives are ruined or at the very least retards the individual in achieving their goals in life. Sexual attraction is not wrong. I agree that it is very normal and natural. However we are not animals incapable of controlling ourselves for good and rational reasons.
On the subject of violence I don't think you understand what glorification of violence means. There will always be violence in the world for religious or other reasons but our society uses violence as a form of entertainment thus glorifying it. I am not advocating the point of view that there is more violence in the world than in the past but simply that we are glorifying it and thus perpetuating it among those young minds that have been exposed to it's glorification. |
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10/28/2008 12:32:08 AM · #416 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
It's caused by our society at large setting an extremely bad example of what adulthood means: promiscuous pre-marital sex, violence is glorified. |
Just a question I've been itching to ask - what exactly is pre-marital sex?
My husband is a Roman Catholic so, according to the church, he is married but to someone else.
I am panenthiest and have no church of my own so I'm not married in any church's eyes.
We were married by a pentecostal preacher we found on-line but we didn't get married in a church and have never been in a pentecostal church so I'm not sure we're married in their eyes either.
We have a license from the state but I don't think they really care if we are having sex or not, nor who we are having it with unless we are having it with girls under 16 or boys under 18.
And, is all premarital sex promiscuous? What if you are only have it with one person over and over, even if you do it every day?
And Jac - I agree with you on the glorified violence front and in fact posited such about 3 months ago, where everyone promptly told me I was wrong, that religion wasn't the reason for a lot of violence in the world (I also included Empirism/Empire building, which I find to be a nationalistic version of the same thing). |
I would say that for the purposes of this discussion we could define promiscuous premarital sex as possibly repeated sexual intercourse with multiple partners. If you are in a committed relationship whose intent is for their to be sex with no one else in perpetuity then you are not having promiscuous premarital sex. It is also the case that if you are not having sex with multiple partners that you are not having promiscuous premarital sex. |
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10/28/2008 12:34:52 AM · #417 |
Originally posted by Louis:
This is more insidious than people realize. It's this kind of unreasoning nonsense that's undermining American culture, and, in the worst case, will cause it to implode. |
These are obviously a few fringe nutcakes. I doubt our society here in the US is threatened by them. |
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10/28/2008 12:37:58 AM · #418 |
Originally posted by JDubsgirl:
this is along the baby butcher line. why does one person have a problem with whether or not someone else has an abortion? its not infringing on their life or rights in any way. I have never been able to figure this out |
While I personally don't feel that the state should necessarily ban abortions I can certainly understand why it is an issue. To some this is to be considered murder and not a medical procedure. I'm sure you are sophisticated enough to understand why. |
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10/28/2008 12:40:56 AM · #419 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Louis:
This is more insidious than people realize. It's this kind of unreasoning nonsense that's undermining American culture, and, in the worst case, will cause it to implode. |
I find it supremely ironic that this attitude is so often co-mingled with the need to fight terrorism, when it is, in effect, the very source of the problem–
"The Bush administration deliberately conflated the Al Qaeda threat with the problem posed by Saddam's Iraq. Then [they] deepened the confusion with the claim that Al Qaeda hated the United States because of our freedoms and our way of life. As [Osama] bin Ladin has said, if that were the case, Al Qaeda would have attacked Sweden. So what is it that motivates AQ and the terrorists that belong to it? A sense that the Islamic world has been under systematic attack by the West for the last century... We have pursued Al Qaeda by military means—with considerable success. But our war of choice in Iraq has mobilized, I suspect, the next two generations of recruits to Al Qaeda. Meanwhile, we haven't tackled the fundamental challenge, which I call attacking Al Qaeda's narrative—its reading of history. Al Qaeda's anti-Western message gains traction from the belief, widespread among Muslims, that the U.S. doesn't respect the Muslim world." |
Isn't it obvious that they hate us because we are the leaders of the free world. Their purpose isn't just to kill us but all who don't believe in their religion and that would include sweden. |
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10/28/2008 12:43:01 AM · #420 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Louis:
This is more insidious than people realize. It's this kind of unreasoning nonsense that's undermining American culture, and, in the worst case, will cause it to implode. |
I find it supremely ironic that this attitude is so often co-mingled with the need to fight terrorism, when it is, in effect, the very source of the problem–
"The Bush administration deliberately conflated the Al Qaeda threat with the problem posed by Saddam's Iraq. Then [they] deepened the confusion with the claim that Al Qaeda hated the United States because of our freedoms and our way of life. As [Osama] bin Ladin has said, if that were the case, Al Qaeda would have attacked Sweden. So what is it that motivates AQ and the terrorists that belong to it? A sense that the Islamic world has been under systematic attack by the West for the last century... We have pursued Al Qaeda by military means—with considerable success. But our war of choice in Iraq has mobilized, I suspect, the next two generations of recruits to Al Qaeda. Meanwhile, we haven't tackled the fundamental challenge, which I call attacking Al Qaeda's narrative—its reading of history. Al Qaeda's anti-Western message gains traction from the belief, widespread among Muslims, that the U.S. doesn't respect the Muslim world." |
Isn't it obvious that they hate us because we are the leaders of the free world. Their purpose isn't just to kill us but all who don't believe in their religion and that would include sweden. |
No, your proposition is far from obvious. Sorry. You just sound like one of those neo-con talking heads that promotes xenophobic paranoia.
Message edited by author 2008-10-28 00:44:06. |
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10/28/2008 12:46:52 AM · #421 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
It's caused by our society at large setting an extremely bad example of what adulthood means: promiscuous pre-marital sex, violence is glorified. |
Promiscuous pre marital sex; when are you going to let go of that one? You can't dictate to teenagers that nature's calling is dirty and un-natural, you accomplish the opposite of what you're trying to teach with that line of thought and you risk losing your child's respect because they'll probably learn from somewhere else that their natural tendencies are completely normal and accepted by almost everyone the world over except those who let old demystified religions grab a hold of how they live their lives. All you're doing is setting yourselves up for disappointment by ignoring nature and the reason for you being alive today. (not saying your parents had you out of wedlock, just stipulating the fact that sexual attraction is normal)
violence is glorified...hmm
Massacres of Indian Independence (1947, Hindu vs. Muslim)
Thirty Years War (Christians, Catholics vs. Protestants, Germany, 1618 to 1648)
Russian Pogroms (Christians killing Jews, Medieval times to 20th century)
Sudanese Civil War (1983 to present, Muslims vs. Christians and Animist rebels)
St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (1572: Lyon, France: Catholics killing Protestants)
Ivory Coast (present day, Christians vs. Muslims)
East Timor (1970s to present day, Muslims mainly killing Christians)
Here's a link that lists many present day conflicts that are based on religious views. See if you can spot the ones without violence involved. Find me a list of non-violent religious conflicts please.
eta! I derailed what I tried to redirect earlier. Damn %^$(&%$*#&$ religion! grrr Rid me of it and cleanse my mind of this filth for good someone please??? |
I would take issue with your stance on promiscuous sex in the fact that it is not good for the individuals or society irregardless of religion. It is how we get babies that the parents don't want and can't raise effectively. It is how disease is spread. It is often thusly how lives are ruined or at the very least retards the individual in achieving their goals in life. Sexual attraction is not wrong. I agree that it is very normal and natural. However we are not animals incapable of controlling ourselves for good and rational reasons.
On the subject of violence I don't think you understand what glorification of violence means. There will always be violence in the world for religious or other reasons but our society uses violence as a form of entertainment thus glorifying it. I am not advocating the point of view that there is more violence in the world than in the past but simply that we are glorifying it and thus perpetuating it among those young minds that have been exposed to it's glorification. |
Perhaps sex and violence wouldn't be so glorified if religious people didn't make sex taboo and didn't start so many wars. Cause/Effect.
Message edited by author 2008-10-28 00:47:52. |
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10/28/2008 12:59:20 AM · #422 |
| "Irregardless" is not a word. |
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10/28/2008 01:02:25 AM · #423 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by Louis:
This is more insidious than people realize. It's this kind of unreasoning nonsense that's undermining American culture, and, in the worst case, will cause it to implode. |
These are obviously a few fringe nutcakes. I doubt our society here in the US is threatened by them. |
Sorry, but you've got one of those fringe nutcakes in the white house right now. He also believes in apocalypse, signs in the skies, the end of the world at the site of the Temple Mount, bodies animating themselves and crawling out of graves, and other assorted lunacies. |
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10/28/2008 06:17:25 AM · #424 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
All the earmarks, pork barrel spending and foreign aid combined wouldn't even come close. |
It would be a great place to start. Yet we can't even get congress to begin there. Your defense of the current process does nothing to convince me that I have the right to something that someone else earned. It is a stark difference in philosophy. Some here think it is OK to take from those that have and my point is then start in your own home first. If you agree with Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth, then at least teach that concept to your kids. If you are unwilling to teach that concept to your children, then you might question yourself on why? And if you won't teach your children this "fair and patriotic" practice (in other words walk the talk), then don't expect others to foot your bills. If you can't afford it, then don't buy it. If you buy it, then be prepared to pay for it. Congress won't even begin to make payments by cutting the pork - instead they follow your example of defending the pork and THEN requiring someone else to pay for it. I'll help you if you are trying to help yourself. I won't help you if you simply want what soneone else worked for. That is wrong. It is called stealing.
A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take all you have. - Thomas Jefferson |
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10/28/2008 06:32:32 AM · #425 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
I will most certainly teach my daughter the value of helping others who can't help themselves. |
Obama's plan is not only about helping those that can't help themsleves. It includes helping those that can - but won't. Please include that portion into your lesson plan. If Obama walked the talk and eliminated pork spending, then he might begin to have some credibility. But he won't. Instead he defends this excess then requires others to pay for it. That is stealing. I'm sure you do not teach your daughter it is OK to steal. Then why would you support a candidate that even believes the Supreme Court erred in not requiring a "redistribtive change".
Again; "A government big enough to give you all you need is a government big enough to take all you have." |
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