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10/06/2008 05:42:02 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by phlover:
if you want to talk about facts... you have 5339 comments which 83.35% of them are useless or unknown signs like -{, -[, etc... |
Math can be challenging at times, can't it? :-D
5339 comments, 112 smilies (did for one challenge) comes out to a little over 2%. He-he. 83.35%. Good one! |
I think you are mistaken, again. Math is not challenging at all for me. Being the king of sarcasm, I thought you could handle some of your own medicine. I was just being sarcastic using a big percentage, I did not have the time to go over them all, I got tired half way into your comments because of the huge amount of the useless signs. |
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10/06/2008 06:04:07 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by phlover:
Shouldnt we concentrate on the quality of the picture??? isnt that what this site is about? |
Yes, and No. Yes, we want quality photos, but part of the "Challenge" in DPChallenge, is having a quality photo that fits the theme/subject of the weekly challenge being entered. If we were only concerned about quality photos then we'd just have a Free Study every week.
In the FWIW column, I haven't looked at, or voted on, any of the Grimm Fairy Tale photos yet - nor do I have an entry in this one. |
Personally - I am not caught up in the Red Cap / Red Hood debate and there was even a photo that looked more like Rumplestiltskin than Sleeping Beauty - but I "got" their intent and certainly am not going to penalize someone. Heck - so many of their stories are intertwined and derived from one or another. I am not gonna be the one to draw the line in such perverbial sand. Now I think there is something to be said for the whole entering an ocean in a mountain challenge argument or whatever - but interpretation is just that. Besides - technically - the title said "should include the title" (not has to). I think if the photo conveys a Grimms Fairy Tale and it's obvious than it is what it is - vote on merit not on superfluous crap. (hee hee - love it when I get to use that word LOL) |
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10/06/2008 06:16:59 PM · #78 |
Votes: 80
Views: 165
Avg Vote:5.9000
Comments:11
I will take it! It's better than I thought I would do. Although, the one I submitted was not how I edited it for myself, and I'm not happy with my entry. I plan on using mine to make a photo book of different fairytales. So, I can't wait until the challenge is over so I can share my version of it! :) I knew the viewers would knock me down for "over neat imaging" my photo... when in reality, I hand painted it in PS.
Oh well! I love my comments and my score. |
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10/06/2008 06:18:51 PM · #79 |
Votes: 77
Views: 138
Avg Vote: 3.7792
Comments: 5
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
I am frustrated.....I think people score very harshly on this site sometimes but I guess this is only the first day of scoring. I guess I got to give it time....the worse thing is ppl r saying my pic is alittle out of focus but I posted the same pic on flickr.com and it is so clear on that site.
Message edited by author 2008-10-06 18:22:11. |
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10/06/2008 06:39:57 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by phlover:
my point,(unfortunetly mistaken) is about the harsh comments without any help to improve it. |
In many cases, I think the commenter may be someone who is using the commenting as a learning experience for themselves, and they may be able to identify just that they don't like it, or maybe why they don't, but they do not yet have the skill to be able to offer suggestions. I sometimes get initially offended at a newbie here telling me that my entry is lacking after I've looked at their entries, but then I usually stop to realize this is the same thing I am doing, and I frequently leave criticisms on the entries of people with far more talent and skill than myself. |
When a photo catches me for whatever the reason, it makes me want to comment. Oftentimes, it's because a shot has emoted something from me. If I can smile, laugh, feel a sense of "awe" or, feel that it has inspired something in me or from me, I will make a comment. I may not have the ability to pick apart someone else's photo (either because I have no idea on how it should be changed or because I don't feel the need to do so), I will enter a comment that, according to some people's comments in this discussion, would be considered "unhelpful" or generic.
What if all that I can offer in terms of a comment is...."Love it" or, "Wonderful shot"? What if the only thing that I can offer that photographer is an acknowledgement that I liked their photo very much? Does that make my comment less worthy of being made? Should I only comment when I have a technical criticism? That's what most commenters (not all) tend to do....criticize.
I'd much rather have someone say, something like "great shot" than to say, "If you got rid of that window in the background, changed the colour of your model's hair, put down new flooring as it's distracting, and changed the eye color, it might improve this shot"! Don't laugh! I've literally had a few people who have PM'd me with stuff like this! I'd much rather have Glad's :-}'s!
More than ANYTHING, I HATE the comments "seems to be out of focus" or, "it seems to be blurred" when THAT is exactly what I was going for as an effect!
So, what is it that people, like me, should say in comments? Or, should I stop commenting altogether until I have become a professional critic? ;)
Edited to add....I think that a lot of the unhappy or confused posts regarding this challenge are reflective of the idea that a LOT of us are getting low scores in this particular challenge and are becoming disgruntled at the lowness of these numbers??? Personally, I tried hard on this challenge and the score is really well below what I had expected and hoped it would be and I have NO idea why.
Message edited by author 2008-10-06 18:44:35. |
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10/06/2008 06:45:56 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by Hopefully:
Votes: 77
Views: 138
Avg Vote: 3.7792
Comments: 5
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
I am frustrated.....I think people score very harshly on this site sometimes but I guess this is only the first day of scoring. I guess I got to give it time....the worse thing is ppl r saying my pic is alittle out of focus but I posted the same pic on flickr.com and it is so clear on that site. |
I totally agree that this is not a "feel-good" only site - which is why I joined. Yes, we all love kudos and such; but I appreciate the critiques on how to improve my shot. That being said - you are also not going to please everyone. Someone once commented that my shot was not up to DPC standards or that it wouldn't do well as it was "too common" (or something like that). Personally it was my first newborn shoot and I liked it - so whatever. Those kinds of comments are kind of stagnant to me.
Now onto my other thought-which is there are SO many entries of wide ranging quality.... and you have to take the whole range of scores and apply it to so many (especially free studies) so if your shot is blurry or something is wrong - the only way to spread things out is to put it at the bottom. I agree there is some loss of detail on here (I don't get it or more importantly I can't offer how to fix it).
Hang in there and most of all - have fun! |
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10/06/2008 06:55:51 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
Votes: 80
Views: 165
Avg Vote:5.9000
Comments:11
I will take it! It's better than I thought I would do. Although, the one I submitted was not how I edited it for myself, and I'm not happy with my entry. I plan on using mine to make a photo book of different fairytales. So, I can't wait until the challenge is over so I can share my version of it! :) I knew the viewers would knock me down for "over neat imaging" my photo... when in reality, I hand painted it in PS.
Oh well! I love my comments and my score. |
Are you allowed to do that....?
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10/06/2008 06:58:06 PM · #83 |
| you are not allowed to hand paint a picture... |
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10/06/2008 07:00:59 PM · #84 |
Votes: 81
Views: 183
Avg Vote: 6.5556
Comments: 4
For the first time I'm beginning to feel ok.......with fear and trepidation.
The comments are a tough subject to discuss. In some respects, hearing that your placement of objects etc could be better is not so bad - there are many ways to set up a shot and its interesting to hear how others might do it. I have fallen into the probably bad habit of immediately looking up the portfolio of someone who has left a comment, so I can see if they know what they're talking about. But as they say some do, some teach, so in a way I should just take all the comments in good stride as we all have varying experiences. One I had recently though, in an advanced editing challenge, was so off the mark and rude that I can't wait to tell this person just how completely incorrect he is about what I'd done on the shot. Perhaps its not worth it, as it only makes him seem like a fool when it all becomes revealed after voting. Still, I don't feel that negative comments are really justified, we should be encouraging each other and if we really feel the need to 'teach' others, do it gently! We see plenty of images that just don't make the mark, but how would you feel if the photographer was a child, and you had just completely bagged them? There ARE kids on this site, and there are people who love photography but are beginners trying to learn. We should remember that. |
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10/06/2008 07:05:58 PM · #85 |
This ones for jettyimages, I am right behind you everyone needs to put a little more weight into what they are going to say and how they are going to say it before they critique.
You were on the mark with everything you said jettyimages, I like your wording.
Sincerely,
Tom Wotkyns.
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10/06/2008 07:07:02 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Shutter-For-Hire:
you are not allowed to hand paint a picture... |
Which is why I didn't enter it. And I think the way I do it, it may be legal :) |
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10/06/2008 07:23:07 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by jettyimages:
Votes: 81
Views: 183
Avg Vote: 6.5556
Comments: 4
For the first time I'm beginning to feel ok.......with fear and trepidation.
The comments are a tough subject to discuss. In some respects, hearing that your placement of objects etc could be better is not so bad - there are many ways to set up a shot and its interesting to hear how others might do it. I have fallen into the probably bad habit of immediately looking up the portfolio of someone who has left a comment, so I can see if they know what they're talking about. But as they say some do, some teach, so in a way I should just take all the comments in good stride as we all have varying experiences. One I had recently though, in an advanced editing challenge, was so off the mark and rude that I can't wait to tell this person just how completely incorrect he is about what I'd done on the shot. Perhaps its not worth it, as it only makes him seem like a fool when it all becomes revealed after voting. Still, I don't feel that negative comments are really justified, we should be encouraging each other and if we really feel the need to 'teach' others, do it gently! We see plenty of images that just don't make the mark, but how would you feel if the photographer was a child, and you had just completely bagged them? There ARE kids on this site, and there are people who love photography but are beginners trying to learn. We should remember that. |
It works both ways. This is not only a site for learning, it is a site where we, as photographers, put our works up for judging, critique, interpretation, and opinion. Sometimes that opinion is too rough, sometimes it is too soft.
I believe that it is in all of our best interests to take every comment we get and allow ourselves the ability to apply it objectively to our photographs. If we do not agree with them, we may ignore them at our leisure. If we agree with them and find them helpful, we can apply it to future works.
Remember that learning does not only apply to the photographer, but the commenter as well. When we comment, we know nothing about an image except what we see. When we make suggestions, write opinions, or share thoughts, it is on what that photo represents the moment we look at it. Whether or not you meant to do something differently doesn't really matter when a commenter comments on a photo. They are commenting on what they see and feel. Sometimes this is positive, and sometimes it is negative. Like everything in life, we take the good, we take the bad. Also remember that positivity isn't always good (a poor photograph can be liked too much, not allowing personal growth), and negativity isn't always bad (harsh criticism is sometimes the only way to jolt the brain into thinking wait, maybe I do need to learn more).
So my final thoughts are, if you are submitting to challenges here, you must be ready to receive both the good and the bad when it comes to reactions to that shot. We're all different, we all think differently, we all see differently. At the end of the day, our photos will get the reactions they deserve, they will be liked or hated, and we'll hopefully all learn something and move forward.
As for the idea that one would have to temper their reactions and comments on a photo with the thought that it may be a child submitting, no. I entirely disagree with that. As a parent allowing your child to participate on this site, you should know that negativity will be a part of that process, and you should be teaching your child to accept the negative along with the positive and use both in a constructive manner. The site's TOS deals with the truly out-of-bounds comments, and I know I personally will continue to leave honest commentary whenever it strikes me to do so.
*EDITED TO ADD*
As for being wrong about something when you comment, that's part and parcel with not knowing anything about the comment. If a commenter is wrong about something (such as if they suggest you used too much neat-image, but you didn't use any), take a step back and look at your photo to see why they may have commented what they did. As I said, the commenter is generally learning too. At the end, a simple note explaining what you did do is usually all that suffices, and can help both the commenter and submitter learn at the end of the day.
EG. comment - "too much neat-image"
reply - "Thank you for taking the time to comment. While I didn't use neat-image or equivalent on this photo, I have taken a look at it and I can see why you'd think so. What I actually did was covered the lens with a tight application of saran-wrap, which is what gave it that smooth look."
commenter reply - "Thank you for explaining how you achieved the look. I still believe that it's too smooth, and suffers as a result, but that's a very clever idea."
The commenter then learns that there are many ways to achieve a certain look, and the submitter learns that even though they achieved the look doing something else, it can still mean that someone doesn't like it. We're never going to please everyone, but if we all try and take things as pleasantly as we can and give everyone else the benefit of the doubt, it'll go much easier for us all.
Message edited by author 2008-10-06 19:33:14. |
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10/06/2008 07:32:34 PM · #88 |
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10/06/2008 07:46:04 PM · #89 |
I just want to add.... I have been playing for 5 years now and I have 2 placed images. Otherwise, I get mostly crappy scores. Thing is, I have owned my photography business for 4 years and I recently opened another specialty photo business on the side.... but, I have had my very best portraits entered in challenges and they have bombed! As a matter of fact, my entry for one of the challenges was shot for my side business... my clients were so happy with the photo that they are using it in promoting their business... but on DPC, I'm only getting a 5.97!
People here tend to be very critical. I do this as a profession, and I still get horrible scores, even if my clients are more than thrilled.
Dunno why? Just is that way! lol |
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10/06/2008 07:57:17 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
I just want to add.... I have been playing for 5 years now and I have 2 placed images. Otherwise, I get mostly crappy scores. Thing is, I have owned my photography business for 4 years and I recently opened another specialty photo business on the side.... but, I have had my very best portraits entered in challenges and they have bombed! As a matter of fact, my entry for one of the challenges was shot for my side business... my clients were so happy with the photo that they are using it in promoting their business... but on DPC, I'm only getting a 5.97!
People here tend to be very critical. I do this as a profession, and I still get horrible scores, even if my clients are more than thrilled.
Dunno why? Just is that way! lol |
I can't imagine a shot of yours not going well. I think 5.97 in this challenge is good... your work in your portfolio is excellent!!
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10/06/2008 08:01:37 PM · #91 |
At least there are a lot of early voters...
Votes: 86
Views: 162
Avg Vote: 5.6047
Comments: 5
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10/06/2008 08:02:03 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
I just want to add.... I have been playing for 5 years now and I have 2 placed images. Otherwise, I get mostly crappy scores. Thing is, I have owned my photography business for 4 years and I recently opened another specialty photo business on the side.... but, I have had my very best portraits entered in challenges and they have bombed! As a matter of fact, my entry for one of the challenges was shot for my side business... my clients were so happy with the photo that they are using it in promoting their business... but on DPC, I'm only getting a 5.97!
People here tend to be very critical. I do this as a profession, and I still get horrible scores, even if my clients are more than thrilled.
Dunno why? Just is that way! lol |
Ohhhhh..........AMEN! FINALLY, someone who is speaking out with some rational sense!!!
You know, I posted a shot done by a very well known professional photography firm (unknown by those who commented) on a thread in here one day and asked people's opinions. No one who commented knew that it was done by a professional photography firm or who it was done by for that matter. That photo was torn to shreds! I mean literally torn from stem to stern. What is that saying about the type of critiques that go on in here?! :-0
THANK YOU for bringing up an excellent example and point!!! HUGS to you! |
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10/06/2008 08:05:10 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
I just want to add.... I have been playing for 5 years now and I have 2 placed images. Otherwise, I get mostly crappy scores. Thing is, I have owned my photography business for 4 years and I recently opened another specialty photo business on the side.... but, I have had my very best portraits entered in challenges and they have bombed! As a matter of fact, my entry for one of the challenges was shot for my side business... my clients were so happy with the photo that they are using it in promoting their business... but on DPC, I'm only getting a 5.97!
People here tend to be very critical. I do this as a profession, and I still get horrible scores, even if my clients are more than thrilled.
Dunno why? Just is that way! lol |
You have to remember that, outside of stock photography, a photography business caters to very individual clients. Your portraits are being shot for one person, or one group of people, and are tailored for that. On DPC, we're trying to reach an unbelievably wide demographic with just one shot. A portrait has to have such an amazing amount of mass appeal to do well here, that it generally cannot be one that has been tailored to a specific client. They have to fall more into the realm of stock portraiture, which is far harder to do in most cases (unless one has been gifted with a natural talent to do such).
So that's why some of our favorite/best works can be so lukewarmly received here. |
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10/06/2008 08:07:27 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
You know, I posted a shot done by a very well known professional photography firm (unknown by those who commented) on a thread in here one day and asked people's opinions. No one who commented knew that it was done by a professional photography firm or who it was done by for that matter. That photo was torn to shreds! I mean literally torn from stem to stern. What is that saying about the type of critiques that go on in here?! :-0
THANK YOU for bringing up an excellent example and point!!! HUGS to you! |
What that is saying is that DPC has far more people taking a critical interest in it than it had been within the relative confines of the clientele that it was shot for. |
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10/06/2008 08:12:23 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
You know, I posted a shot done by a very well known professional photography firm (unknown by those who commented) on a thread in here one day and asked people's opinions. No one who commented knew that it was done by a professional photography firm or who it was done by for that matter. That photo was torn to shreds! I mean literally torn from stem to stern. What is that saying about the type of critiques that go on in here?! :-0
THANK YOU for bringing up an excellent example and point!!! HUGS to you! |
What that is saying is that DPC has far more people taking a critical interest in it than it had been within the relative confines of the clientele that it was shot for. |
Clientele also doesn't have 150 other versions of the shot to compare to... ;) |
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10/06/2008 08:18:36 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:
You know, I posted a shot done by a very well known professional photography firm (unknown by those who commented) on a thread in here one day and asked people's opinions. No one who commented knew that it was done by a professional photography firm or who it was done by for that matter. That photo was torn to shreds! I mean literally torn from stem to stern. What is that saying about the type of critiques that go on in here?! :-0
THANK YOU for bringing up an excellent example and point!!! HUGS to you! |
What that is saying is that DPC has far more people taking a critical interest in it than it had been within the relative confines of the clientele that it was shot for. |
Clientele also doesn't have 150 other versions of the shot to compare to... ;) |
Excellent point. |
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10/06/2008 08:30:04 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
At least there are a lot of early voters...
Votes: 86
Views: 162
Avg Vote: 5.6047
Comments: 5 |
I think people really wanted to see others' interpretation because of their own efforts and preparation and/or our own childhood memories. |
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10/06/2008 08:34:11 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
People here tend to be very critical. I do this as a profession, and I still get horrible scores, even if my clients are more than thrilled.
Dunno why? Just is that way! lol |
This site also teaches people to be excessively critical and I am as guilty as anyone else, but that's how we learn here, by picking apart other peoples work like vultures.
That being said, I am the carrion right now.
Votes: 84
Views: 163
Avg Vote: 4.0952
Comments: 5 |
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10/06/2008 08:47:10 PM · #99 |
| I think it is pretty cool that everyone has had almost double the amount of views as votes. Perhaps looking for reasons to up their score? hmmmm - pick me pick me!! |
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10/06/2008 08:47:33 PM · #100 |
I am not a professional or anything, but I have found that when you take pictures for people who are not photographers, you know... for regular people who may not even have a camera, they are VERY easy to please... if you are taking a portrait if them, all they care is that they look good... they don't really care much about the technical aspects of the picture... whether the lighting was right, or if the saturation is too low or if the focus is a tad off or it's not sharp enough...
On this website, your "clients" ARE photographers... and most of them care more about the technical aspects rather then whether the person looks good or not... and also in most cases lots of the voters also entered the challenge so they are even more critical of your pic |
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