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09/23/2008 06:28:01 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
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Matto is a highly respected photographer, knows what the hell he is talking about, and I support his responce 100%. |
I had to laugh when I read that line, its not one I ever thought I'd read, nor at this point do I 100% agree with. I do know that being in my third year shooting professionally I have learned a few things along the way. Many by mentors and critics. I can assure you I am much harder on myself and my work then most anyone will ever be. I probably toss as many photos that parents would snatch up then I keep. However I have high standards for my work, when I put something out there to sell it should be something I'd be proud to put my name on.
The hardest thing about photography or life in general is trying to pull yourself away from something you created and looking at it objectively. I can assure you I have learned far more from the harshest critics of my work than I ever will from someone patting me on the behind telling me good job, when it obviously isnt. That is one huge downfall of this place, there are hundreds willing to pat you on the back and tell you your stuff rocks, but there are very few with the balls to put what they really think of your work in the forums. And that is what is needed to push people to really improve.
If you really want to learn how to shoot, first you must do it wrong, then figure out how to do it right. I have shot more frames for myself learning then I have for clients, editors, or friends. Its not uncommon to find me 2 nights a week still working on my chosen craft, not for money but to keep sharp and learn. At this point I'm comfortable beginning to call myself a decent to good sports photographer, but I have a long way to go to being proficient or great. Someday I hope to be, and who will I have to thank for that, my critics or the back slappers. Stop and think about that and I think you will know the answer.
Matt |
Hard on your self or not, your opinions in the past have helped myself, and other get along.
Other than that....you suck.:)
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09/23/2008 06:41:27 PM · #27 |
I used my 70-300 at F/4 set to 1/500... got alot of motion blur, but also some nice images. They were good enough for the newspaper and to get me paid...so good enough for me.
//flickr.com/photos/bigdphotography/2871269081/
//flickr.com/photos/bigdphotography/2872091148/
//flickr.com/photos/bigdphotography/2872088528/
Message edited by author 2008-09-23 18:41:56.
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09/23/2008 07:05:19 PM · #28 |
I don't want to hijack this thread by starting an argument, but ...
Originally posted by MattO:
suggesting that the OP find a professional to mentor them while they at least learn how to operate their camera not helpful? |
That is helpful
Originally posted by MattO:
Let me understand this correctly, you are trying to get a gig shooting sports, with a kit lens, and you dont even understand how your camera works? |
Originally posted by MattO:
/me walks away from the computer shaking his head. |
That is pretty derogitory and I don't see how that can help the OP
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by bobonacus:
Other than that, you could try the sports mode on your camera if you aren't sure of the other settings.
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Look at any sports magazine, or newspaper, and I will guarentee you that "sports mode" is not used. |
The OP has already stated that she doesn't understand shutter/aperture etc so setting the camera to sports mode she will get an idea of what the camera thinks the settings should be for those conditions and gives her rough base to work from. No one is going to start at the top publishing in sports magazines are they really!
When I see people putting other people down on forums or talking down to them just because they are asking about something they don't know it pisses me off, if you can't be constructive then don't say anything, everyone has to start somewhere
edited for typo!
Message edited by author 2008-09-23 19:28:24. |
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09/23/2008 07:26:33 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by bobonacus:
Also, ignore really unhelpful comments like the previous post as they don't help anyone!!
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How is suggesting that the OP find a professional to mentor them while they at least learn how to operate their camera not helpful?
While many people(including myself) when they get a new camera, get all happy about getting asked to shoot things when they have a fancy camera, you really should have a complete understanding about your camera and the required equipment before undertaking paying jobs. Expectations of the clients can be very low or as high as the sky and you better be ready to provide them, or have alot of frustration for the photographer and the client.
Matt |
yeah, you have to love those who are "better than everyone" |
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09/23/2008 07:30:17 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Puckzzz:
it's much easier to ask (and waste peoples time) in a thread than to read the manual.
you get an instant answer and don't have to go through pages and read indexes and Ohyeah...really difficult instructions...
just turn the thingy! |
I did mention this was pee wee football right not the cowboys... and i do think my first statement in the 1st post was "not sure how but I got another one" I didn't go out looking for it they asked me, I always do one free, and then they choose. I tell them upfront I don't really know much about the sport, and that I have never done anything like it before.. they saw what I had, they went with it. I also didn't post the "great" ones in my opinion because I was ASKING for help in getting clearer shots.. |
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09/23/2008 07:31:06 PM · #31 |
| I shot some football just the other day. I found that the light on the field is much less than the light on the sky (duh) and so I had to shoot manual and blow out the sky a bit so that I could capture some of the facial expressions from the players. I also learned to try and move to where the action was going. I shot at 200 with little or no motion blur, but I usually was at an f4 or so. The shallow dof wasn't much of a problem in fact it usually worked well for focusing in on the ball carrier. I looked at lots of pro football shots before I went out, and that seemed to be what they do as well. Or at least I think that is what they do. I would love the opportunity to try for real sometime. |
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09/23/2008 07:35:58 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Photomom1981:
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by bobonacus:
Also, ignore really unhelpful comments like the previous post as they don't help anyone!!
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How is suggesting that the OP find a professional to mentor them while they at least learn how to operate their camera not helpful?
While many people(including myself) when they get a new camera, get all happy about getting asked to shoot things when they have a fancy camera, you really should have a complete understanding about your camera and the required equipment before undertaking paying jobs. Expectations of the clients can be very low or as high as the sky and you better be ready to provide them, or have alot of frustration for the photographer and the client.
Matt |
yeah, you have to love those who are "better than everyone" |
Far out.. you need to learn to not be so upset by this. You have to understand where Matt is coming from before you say stuff like that. He is merely trying to point out what is clearly obvious. Even if they did approach you... you know nothing about your camera or gear. Yes you can shoot it with a 400 but not with a kit lens. Learn your camera before you offer photos.
Best thing to do is go practice practice practice.. |
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09/23/2008 07:36:20 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by MattO:
[quote=dassilem] I agree with the advice given here, but why is that in soooo many cases when someone asks a very newbie question, they are brow-beat??? Ok, maybe she should read the manual...but it is evident that she doesn't know ISO, etc...so why not give her advice at her level? If she still doesn't know the 'points' how is following a 'professional' going to help her pictures.
Not too long ago there was another thread in which a 16 yr old was asking about printing the 'free' senior pictures she was taking for her friends. Well she got bashed so much in that thread that I see she hasn't posted in over 1 mth.
I hope her enthousiasm wasn't crushed.
Just like I hope Photomom's isnt |
this isn't something I do for a career no one is going to turn me away for a hobby i enjoy weather I'm any good or not. Kinda like singing in the shower ya know, You can get as loud as you want in there knowing you can't sing a lick of anything and just because someone tells you you suck, doesn't mean next time i get in the shower i won't crank the raido even louder and make the gold fish wish the had ear plugs. :)
thanks for stepping up and speaking out I have learned for every as*hole they have on here there are 20 others willing to lend a little helping advice. |
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09/23/2008 07:43:48 PM · #34 |
sports illustrated
This link has a (small) video tips, It seems they are going to be posting more. It might not help you much with your original question, but I think you will enjoy it ;) |
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09/23/2008 07:46:52 PM · #35 |
| Oh ya, if you see somebody else taking photos at the same game you are doing, trip that person while he/she is shooting. They are your competition and are to be destroyed. |
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09/23/2008 08:46:45 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Photomom1981:
this isn't something I do for a career no one is going to turn me away for a hobby i enjoy weather I'm any good or not. Kinda like singing in the shower ya know, You can get as loud as you want in there knowing you can't sing a lick of anything and just because someone tells you you suck, doesn't mean next time i get in the shower i won't crank the raido even louder and make the gold fish wish the had ear plugs. :)
thanks for stepping up and speaking out I have learned for every as*hole they have on here there are 20 others willing to lend a little helping advice. |
Best advice you got was from the person you apparently lump in the asshole category. Presumably you are getting into a situation which is a bit different than singing in the shower since there is 'competition' and people are reviewing your work. |
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09/23/2008 09:03:03 PM · #37 |
Just remember, Soccer moms will go off on you if you are not nice.
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09/23/2008 09:27:03 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Photomom1981:
because i'm just one of those people that don't get it when i read it in a book.. |
This is me too.. totally!!! I have tried more than once to sit down and try to read the manual..I need visual/hands on for it to "sink in".. I'm looking for the "books on tape" version that I can play it while I'm sleeping and learn it subliminally!! I'll let you know when I find it! :D
I have the 400D also. I recently found a local photograpy store that has classes specifically for Canon Rebel XT, XTI, XSI series cameras. I'm hoping to just get a grasp of the basics. It might be woth contacting some camera stores near you to see what they have to offer.
Good luck! :D
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09/23/2008 09:35:31 PM · #39 |
As you so nicely stated in your PM photomom you would rather go to someone willing to help then an ass like me. So thats OK, take others advice.
As you can tell I'm not helpful. Good luck in your adventure. I just hope one day a soccer mom, or football mom, or baseball mom isn't standing in front of you screaming her head off because she is paying you for photos of her kid and your photos don't meet her expectations. For every 5 moms who are happy to receive any photo of little Johnny running on the field, there are 5 more who understand that paying for a service and receiving less then stellar results is grounds for a lawsuit. This is what the world has come too, rather we want to believe it or not. So I hope that while you are suiting up to take their money, I also hope you have set yourself up with insurance for errors and omissions so that you do not lose everything you have worked your whole life for, for the chance to make a few bucks with your rebel.
Matt
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09/23/2008 09:45:08 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by MattO:
As you so nicely stated in your PM photomom you would rather go to someone willing to help then an ass like me. So thats OK, take others advice.
As you can tell I'm not helpful. Good luck in your adventure. I just hope one day a soccer mom, or football mom, or baseball mom isn't standing in front of you screaming her head off because she is paying you for photos of her kid and your photos don't meet her expectations. For every 5 moms who are happy to receive any photo of little Johnny running on the field, there are 5 more who understand that paying for a service and receiving less then stellar results is grounds for a lawsuit. This is what the world has come too, rather we want to believe it or not. So I hope that while you are suiting up to take their money, I also hope you have set yourself up with insurance for errors and omissions so that you do not lose everything you have worked your whole life for, for the chance to make a few bucks with your rebel.
Matt |
Right on Matt.
There's a reason people are less willing to help strangers these days....cos when you offer what they don't want to hear, out come pouring the insults. God it's depressing.
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09/23/2008 10:06:07 PM · #41 |
I am going with every single word that Matt says here.
You have to understand, that you hae to understand what everything on your camera does. Or you end up being just someone with a camera taking snapshots.
You should go to these games and spin the dial and take photos and see what you come up with , as you stated this is the way you learn, versus a book. WHich is exactly the way I have done it.
Matt is not being mean to you or pulling you down, he is giving you very good advice. And when you get better you will see that, and hopefully you wont be so into yourself that you also will give the same advice to other novices that come this way.
Your desire is to become a better photographer and maybe earn a little pin money. Take the advice that you have been given and learn from it. Doesnt mean you do it, but it has been put out there for you.
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09/23/2008 10:12:50 PM · #42 |
Okay well Matt !!! thanks!!! is that what you want to hear? for the advice your giving someone who wants to do that for a career..
again I did say that i don't do this for a living right? I did say that they called and asked me right? i did say that I told them I had never done that before, but would go out try it at a game (last sat.) and if they still wanted it I would do it.
i did mention all those facts right?? I get what your saying, yada yada angry soccer moms and such..
and who ever said competition, we live in a lil po-dunk town.. there isn't much because most here don't really go out and do that. |
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09/23/2008 10:17:30 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Photomom1981:
Okay well Matt !!! thanks!!! is that what you want to hear? for the advice your giving someone who wants to do that for a career..
again I did say that i don't do this for a living right? I did say that they called and asked me right? i did say that I told them I had never done that before, but would go out try it at a game (last sat.) and if they still wanted it I would do it.
i did mention all those facts right?? I get what your saying, yada yada angry soccer moms and such..
and who ever said competition, we live in a lil po-dunk town.. there isn't much because most here don't really go out and do that. |
Now you are out of order, Yes you did say all of the above, but do you want to learn or not. He is giving you advice, that is all , nothing more nothing less. You choose to be all uppity about it, then so be it. But instead of being all childish about it, either take the advice or ignore it. That is up to you. Nobody slammed you, so why slam back. |
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09/23/2008 10:22:22 PM · #44 |
  
Message edited by author 2008-09-23 22:24:17. |
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09/23/2008 10:24:22 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
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yeah, I was going to post to this thread my advice after shooting a few events for the local pub but the thread has got way out of hand. |
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09/23/2008 10:28:25 PM · #46 |
It's only photography. It isn't like we are setting up a colony on a distant planet to escape the Cylons or something.
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09/23/2008 10:30:58 PM · #47 |
Okaaaaaay. Let's all take a deep breath.
Photomom1981, it sounds like you think MattO is trying to crush your dream, but all he's really doing is preventing you from future embarrasment.
At this point in your hobby, given your camera skills and knowledge, it might be wiser to accept money from those willing to pay it, but maybe not go quite so far as to charge money for a service you clearly cannot reliably provide. Yet.
With "yet" being the operative word, OK? I'm sure in time you'll get there. With lots of practice and more experience and with help from people who do this all the time. :)
It can be very heady to have someone offer money to you to take pictures. There's nothing wrong with covering expenses and exchanging your time for model releases for when you hit the big-time in your po-dunk town later.
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09/23/2008 10:32:10 PM · #48 |
| Did I mention that I love photos of football? |
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09/23/2008 10:33:38 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by LadyTara:
Originally posted by MattO:
As you so nicely stated in your PM photomom you would rather go to someone willing to help then an ass like me. So thats OK, take others advice.
As you can tell I'm not helpful. Good luck in your adventure. I just hope one day a soccer mom, or football mom, or baseball mom isn't standing in front of you screaming her head off because she is paying you for photos of her kid and your photos don't meet her expectations. For every 5 moms who are happy to receive any photo of little Johnny running on the field, there are 5 more who understand that paying for a service and receiving less then stellar results is grounds for a lawsuit. This is what the world has come too, rather we want to believe it or not. So I hope that while you are suiting up to take their money, I also hope you have set yourself up with insurance for errors and omissions so that you do not lose everything you have worked your whole life for, for the chance to make a few bucks with your rebel.
Matt |
Right on Matt.
There's a reason people are less willing to help strangers these days....cos when you offer what they don't want to hear, out come pouring the insults. God it's depressing. |
You see thats just it, I'm not unwilling ot help strangers, I believe in the pay it forward method. People gave me good advice and pushed me along the way. Thats why on any given night you can find me on the sidelines, or the side of the court with a yearbook staff member from whatever HS I'm at shooting offering advice, lending a flash so they can shoot faster then the sync speed of their onboard flash or a lens so they arent shooting at F5.6. Or allowing the schools to use digital files for the yearbook or for end of season banquets.
But the people that I help understand the basics and need to go further, and they are receptive to criticism even if its not what they want to hear. The difference is they don't mind doing the legwork and aren't looking for the magic button on their camera that takes great photos. They also understand that being a professional and playing one on the weekends is a whole new ballgame.
It doesn't matter if you want to do it for a living or for just a little extra coin purse jingle. The facts remain the same and the liabilities are the same for a weekend warrior or a fulltime professional. Once you step into the realm of being paid for your services you are considered a professional and put yourself in a place where you are subject to the same terms and liabilities that they are.
Matt
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09/23/2008 11:07:26 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by MattO:
You see thats just it, I'm not unwilling ot help strangers, I believe in the pay it forward method. People gave me good advice and pushed me along the way. Thats why on any given night you can find me on the sidelines, or the side of the court with a yearbook staff member from whatever HS I'm at shooting offering advice, lending a flash so they can shoot faster then the sync speed of their onboard flash or a lens so they arent shooting at F5.6. Or allowing the schools to use digital files for the yearbook or for end of season banquets. |
Man, I wish you were based in Auckland. |
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