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Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/06/2008 11:45:48 AM · #151

Originally posted by trevytrev:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by trevytrev:
You really think that getting back 2.1 million of the tax payers dollars back out of a 2.7 million frivolous expenditure is "poof"?

No, THIS is *poof*, and the $2.1 million dollar return is a drop in the bucket compared to the debt she ran up in Wasilla... a town of considerably fewer people than the 9,000 figure paraded around the media. Speaking of which, note the link at the end pointing out that the supposedly "biased liberal media" has virtually ignored many glaring discrepancies.

The second link doesn't really state anything different than the first one you put up, so what's your point?

He LIED about selling the jet on eBay. She may have put it on eBay, but it didn't sell there, and McCain's contention that it was sold for a profit is patently untrue. Moreover, the transaction gave her a showpiece to demonstrate fiscal responsibility when she really ran up WAY more debt even in her own little town than that jet was worth.

My point on the second link should be fairly obvious. It's been a contention here that the "biased liberal media" has been unfairly attacking the Republicans, but they haven't really highlighted many thorny issues that are readily researchable in public records. Why not? Well, if there's a lot of negative publicity making headlines on one side, then it would appear that the media was biased. The problem with "fair and balanced" is that you try to portray each side's story "equally" rather than reporting what's true or false.

Message edited by author 2008-09-06 13:06:35.

Nikon D200

09/06/2008 11:53:10 AM · #152

Shannon, c'mon. Even your own link said she was right when she said she put it on eBay (she did). She didn't say she sold it there, although I hardly see how that matters in the grand scheme of things. The point is that she got rid of it.

People put kidneys on eBay - they don't sell either. Big whoop.

09/06/2008 12:06:46 PM · #153

Originally posted by scalvert:

... She LIED about selling the jet on eBay. ...

Here is exactly what she said during her speech: "That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay."

Excerpt taken from Text of Gov. Palin's speech at GOP convention by The Associated Press

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

09/06/2008 12:13:29 PM · #154

Originally posted by L2:

Then why not just say she sold it? Oh right, eBay is a bigger talking point. Hey, maybe she should put that over-the-top $15 million sports complex for the town of 6,000 on eBay...

trevytrev

Canon EOS-5D

09/06/2008 12:34:55 PM · #155

Come on, they said Ebay b/c it's novel. The main point was that jet was sold. You want to make issue that she didn't get rid of other expenditures that were frivolous then at least that makes sense but your original point was that the jet didn't sell on Ebay, give me break. Talk about splitting hairs.

09/06/2008 12:39:32 PM · #156

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by L2:
Shannon, c'mon. Even your own link said she was right when she said she put it on eBay (she did). She didn't say she sold it there, although I hardly see how that matters in the grand scheme of things. The point is that she got rid of it.

Then why not just say she sold it? Oh right, eBay is a bigger talking point. ...

Shannon - How would you have written that statement. eBay is comtemporary - and sure it sounds better than saying flatly "I sold it". Do you fret over the details when you enter a photo in a challenge here at DPC? Sure you do, because you want it to be accepted by the largest number of people possible. If that was you up there making a speech would you not tweak it to make it most presentable? Sure you would.

09/06/2008 01:04:45 PM · #157

Originally posted by trevytrev:

...your original point was that the jet didn't sell on Ebay, give me break. Talk about splitting hairs.

Really? "You know what I enjoyed the most? She took the luxury jet that was acquired by her predecessor and sold it on eBay -- and made a profit!" â�� John McCain

Spin that. You could excuse the "sold it" part as it was implied in Palin's speech, even if "listed it" would be more accurate, but the profit? That cannot be a misinterpretation- it was intentionally added to the story.

@Glad, I'd like to think that if it were me, I would have made enough fiscally responsible choices that I didn't need that talking point at all. Sure, I'd try to make any presentation details as compelling as possible, but not to the point of having the main candidate lie.

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

09/06/2008 01:11:15 PM · #158

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by L2:
Shannon, c'mon. Even your own link said she was right when she said she put it on eBay (she did). She didn't say she sold it there, although I hardly see how that matters in the grand scheme of things. The point is that she got rid of it.

Then why not just say she sold it? Oh right, eBay is a bigger talking point. ...

Shannon - How would you have written that statement. eBay is comtemporary - and sure it sounds better than saying flatly "I sold it". Do you fret over the details when you enter a photo in a challenge here at DPC? Sure you do, because you want it to be accepted by the largest number of people possible. If that was you up there making a speech would you not tweak it to make it most presentable? Sure you would.

looks like Daddy Mac believes the same thing

YouTube McCain and ebay jet sale

trevytrev

Canon EOS-5D

09/06/2008 01:29:01 PM · #159

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by trevytrev:
...your original point was that the jet didn't sell on Ebay, give me break. Talk about splitting hairs.

Really? "You know what I enjoyed the most? She took the luxury jet that was acquired by her predecessor and sold it on eBay -- and made a profit!" â�� John McCain

Spin that. You could excuse the "sold it" part as it was implied in Palin's speech, even if "listed it" would be more accurate, but the profit? That cannot be a misinterpretation- it was intentionally added to the story.

@Glad, I'd like to think that if it were me, I would have made enough fiscally responsible choices that I didn't need that talking point at all. Sure, I'd try to make any presentation details as compelling as possible, but not to the point of having the main candidate lie.

From all I have ever read or heard I have never heard Palin state that she made a profit on the plane. McCain is the one who lied/misspoke about the plane. So is her talking point about getting rid of a tax payer paid plane really *poof* b/c McCain f'ed up? No. Do I really think that it's really even a sound talking point?Not really, but do you really think that the main point of this talking point is that she made a profit from the plane, or was it that she got rid of wasteful tax dollars? If you disagree with that than why not just come out and talk about all the wasteful spending that she caused or didn't cut and leave the whole story about it not selling on ebay out? Just seems ridiculous.

09/06/2008 01:32:15 PM · #160

Again, you were saying that Palin lied. She didn't.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by scalvert:
... She LIED about selling the jet on eBay. ...

Here is exactly what she said during her speech: "That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay."

Excerpt taken from Text of Gov. Palin's speech at GOP convention by The Associated Press

09/06/2008 01:38:35 PM · #161

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Again, you were saying that Palin lied. She didn't.

OK McCain lied. Feel better?

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/06/2008 01:59:46 PM · #162

The resonaable person thinks that when you make a big deal about selling a item on ebay you made some money on the deal ...

How stupid would it have sounded if she said " I was trying to make a name for myself and I put the plane that the ex-gov purchased to get around the state on ebay (because I can fly my own plane) and no one would buy it. So it was sold for a loss and my stunt of fiscal responsability only cost the taxpayers of AK $500,000."

Nikon D200

09/06/2008 02:10:17 PM · #163

Originally posted by nomad469:

I'm not sure where you got $500,000 from, but there is an expense associated with keeping the plane in a hangar; let's not forget about depreciation either. Not to mention the opportunity cost of keeping an unused asset when liquidating same could be used to fund a wiser investment.

09/06/2008 02:18:05 PM · #164

Originally posted by L2:

Originally posted by nomad469:
The resonaable person thinks that when you make a big deal about selling a item on ebay you made some money on the deal ...

How stupid would it have sounded if she said " I was trying to make a name for myself and I put the plane that the ex-gov purchased to get around the state on ebay (because I can fly my own plane) and no one would buy it. So it was sold for a loss and my stunt of fiscal responsability only cost the taxpayers of AK $500,000."

I'm not sure where you got $500,000 from, but there is an expense associated with keeping the plane in a hangar; let's not forget about depreciation either. Not to mention the opportunity cost of keeping an unused asset when liquidating same could be used to fund a wiser investment.

It looks like the aircraft sold for 2.1M It was purchased for 2.7M I give you your point on operating costs and depreciation. It looks like it may have been hangered at a state National Guard facility so the facility costs wouldn't go away. On the surface it looks like the state took a bath on her decision.

09/06/2008 02:19:03 PM · #165

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Again, you were saying that Palin lied. She didn't.

OK McCain lied. Feel better?

Yep. :-)

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

09/06/2008 02:21:17 PM · #166

Originally posted by L2:

... there is an expense associated with keeping the plane in a hangar; let's not forget about depreciation either. Not to mention the opportunity cost of keeping an unused asset when liquidating same could be used to fund a wiser investment.

Plus, besides the expense of maintenance, etc...not having the jet also meant that it wasn't being used anymore, which I think was part of her point. Had to have been expensive to fuel and fly.

trevytrev

Canon EOS-5D

09/06/2008 02:25:14 PM · #167

Originally posted by nomad469:

Actually, the reasonable person would assume that when ever a used vehicle, whether it be a car, atv, motorcycle or airplane, is sold that you rarely get the amount that was originally paid for the vehicle. So to assume that she made money is actually a bit unreasonable. Again, there is more worth in liquidating the plane while taking a loss then to hold on to it as it depreciates in value and accrues cost of maintenance and storage.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/06/2008 02:30:46 PM · #168

I am not disagreeing with the decision to dispose of the aircraft and frankly I could care less... my point is that they lost money on the deal any way that you massage the numbers and for them to hype that they sold it on ebay (at a PROFIT) just isn't true.

And one other point that I am just damn POed at McCain for ... I cant get "Ebay" by weird al out of my head
Sharing the pain - "ebay" by weird All

Message edited by author 2008-09-06 14:33:19.

Nikon D200

09/06/2008 02:39:06 PM · #169

Originally posted by nomad469:

It's impossible to say whether they lost money on the deal without knowing a) the depreciated value of the plane at the time the decision to sell was made b)the sum total of all expenses to keep it going forward - including taxes/insurance/maintenance/storage/interest on any loan payments and like and c) what other investment opportunities were available and would have been missed if the asset was kept rather than sold (subjective) d) the expenses incurred in the sale of the asset and e) the net tax effect on the income statement.

Capital budgeting decisions are rarely as simple as "I paid X and only got back Y so somebody somewhere lost money."

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

09/06/2008 04:13:52 PM · #170

bought plane for 2.7 million
sold for 2.1 million
loss of 600k

At least that is how I learned math. Depreciation, maintenance and storage costs just add to the loss.

Don't see how that can be spun any other way...

Message edited by author 2008-09-06 16:14:31.

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

09/06/2008 04:59:06 PM · #171

Man this is just comical. I bet if she actually kept the jet you people would be arguing the opposite, that is she's up there living in the lap of luxury and that she's out of touch with the American people.

You know it's completely ok to dismiss a republican or democrat candidate on ideology alone. No need to constantly nitpick about the most trivial of things just to paint them as lies especially when the other candidate in the race is just as guilty on what could easily be argued as lies/stretching the truth on more important things than a jet. How about we stick to things that actually matter? Obama has been saying that the issues aren't being discussed. He's right and you guys who I'm guessing are Obama supporters are just helping McCain out on keeping issues out of this race. Way to go.