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08/19/2008 02:28:29 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by kenskid:
They can have 200 gold medals. One bronze should not have been awarded. The individual valult where the Chinese Gymnast landed on her knees...this gymnast should not have been awarded a bonze. |
That was totally bogus, wasn't it? Alicia Sacramone was totally ripped off. Of course, that was just one of several blatant ripoffs in the gymnastics judging at this year's games. |
Boxing is usually the worst. Good hits not scoring points and points being awarded for no hits at all.
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08/19/2008 02:28:58 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
This is correct to a point...but also....
It is well known that "smaller" "lighter" gymnasts are better. They're better on the vault, bars and beam.
On the age thing:
I heard on the broadcast I forgot which day on NBC. The 20 year old on the current Chinese women's team was "taken" (NBC's word) from her family at 3 years old to be a gymnast. She saw her parents ONCE a year. She once as a young teen wanted to quit and come home. Her parents denied her request because it was a high honor to be on the Chinese team.
IMO there should surely be an age limit for Olympic/World competition. |
Age limits aren't going to stop this sort of thing however. That's just a complete and total culture difference issue. I'm going to be looking up the Olympic Gymnastics age limit thing to get the full reasoning behind it myself when I get home (at work right now), because now I'm curious, and it hit me that age limits aren't exactly going to stop abuse in any real way that I can think of, so I want to know more.
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08/19/2008 02:31:55 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by kenskid:
This is correct to a point...but also....
It is well known that "smaller" "lighter" gymnasts are better. They're better on the vault, bars and beam.
On the age thing:
I heard on the broadcast I forgot which day on NBC. The 20 year old on the current Chinese women's team was "taken" (NBC's word) from her family at 3 years old to be a gymnast. She saw her parents ONCE a year. She once as a young teen wanted to quit and come home. Her parents denied her request because it was a high honor to be on the Chinese team.
IMO there should surely be an age limit for Olympic/World competition. |
Age limits aren't going to stop this sort of thing however. That's just a complete and total culture difference issue. I'm going to be looking up the Olympic Gymnastics age limit thing to get the full reasoning behind it myself when I get home (at work right now), because now I'm curious, and it hit me that age limits aren't exactly going to stop abuse in any real way that I can think of, so I want to know more. |
The age limit of 16 is imposed by FﾃラDﾃラRATION INTERNATIONALE DE GYMNASTIQUE. |
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08/19/2008 02:33:29 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by kolasi:
I never thought they would go so well
Its the first time that the #1 country isnt the US or the USSR
Good for them, Im always glad to see someone break the status quo |
Now if the Chinese could just overthrow their anti-Human Rights government, things would be even better for them. Of course, if Obamajama gets elected, we'll have an anti-Human Rights government too... so who are we to say? |
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08/19/2008 02:34:52 PM · #30 |
Didn't I see a platform or sync. diver that was 12 or 14? Phelps was an Olympian at 15. Is swimming/diving training less intensive than gymnastics that makes it okay? The same concerns regarding gymnasts would seem to apply.
Message edited by author 2008-08-19 14:37:35. |
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08/19/2008 02:36:29 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by signal2noise:
Didn't I see a platform or sync. diver that was 12 or 14? |
Yes the age limit of 16 is for gymnastics only. FIG is the governing body and is in charge of all the international rules of the sport.
Message edited by author 2008-08-19 14:36:57. |
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08/19/2008 02:43:45 PM · #32 |
I can't stand sports where the winner is determined by a panel of judges. They are fun to watch, but the judging always determines the winner.
I was watching one of the diving events and a russian pair (pretty sure it was russian, I don't get that into diving...) totally flopped into the water. I've had more graceful cannonballs. Most of the judges scored in the 4's while the russian judge scored it a 9. They then proceeded to score all the other dives (mostly non flops) less then 9. |
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08/19/2008 03:00:14 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by kenskid:
They can have 200 gold medals. One bronze should not have been awarded. The individual valult where the Chinese Gymnast landed on her knees...this gymnast should not have been awarded a bonze. |
That was totally bogus, wasn't it? Alicia Sacramone was totally ripped off. Of course, that was just one of several blatant ripoffs in the gymnastics judging at this year's games. |
Boxing is usually the worst. Good hits not scoring points and points being awarded for no hits at all. |
I haven't been able to watch much of the boxing competition, and I have to admit I'm baffled about the scoring criteria.
With gymnastics, I don't think anyone (with the possible exception of China this year) is happy with the new scoring method. Of course, nobody liked the old 'perfect 10' method either. I suppose it's just too much to ask grown adults to leave politics and personal bias out of their judging decisions. It's a shame. These young people work so hard for so long to get one chance at their dream. Then some fat schmuck comes along and destroys their dream because s/he wants to push their own personal agenda. It's just so... human.
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08/19/2008 03:05:56 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I can't stand sports where the winner is determined by a panel of judges. They are fun to watch, but the judging always determines the winner.
I was watching one of the diving events and a russian pair (pretty sure it was russian, I don't get that into diving...) totally flopped into the water. I've had more graceful cannonballs. Most of the judges scored in the 4's while the russian judge scored it a 9. They then proceeded to score all the other dives (mostly non flops) less then 9. |
They normally drop the high and the low scores in panel judging in order to prevent any bias. You cannot sabotage or artificially boost a competitor. |
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08/19/2008 03:17:57 PM · #35 |
I'm sick to death of the medal counts. Who's ahead, by what standard? China has more gold, US has more medals. So if it isn't gold, it doesn't count? Ask the silver or bronze medalist, if their medals count.
I am sick of the media quoting "medal production" statistics, as if they were a product like eggs or cars.
I saw the story of the girl from Zimbabwe who won that's country's first medal ever, in the last Olympics. She was welcomed home as a national hero. People named their children after her. 1 medal, only one. How far behind the US, and Russia in the medal count was Zimbabwe? Yet that lonely medal still counted for everything to her and her people. This is what the Olympics is supposed to be about.
The medals are won by people, who have spent a fair portion of their lives working towards that one day, that one moment. History was made this Olympics. One of my countrymen won 8 medals in one Olympics. Never done before, and due to upcoming changes in the swimming competition, unlikely to ever be done again. This is what the Olympics is supposed to be about. Or, do we just lump those in as part of a total, and forget the effort and the amazing display of ability and determination?
The teams from Georgia, and Russia made friends while their countries were at war. This too is what the Olympics is supposed to be about.
It is about rising up, to achieve what seems un-achievable. To look beyond borders, to look beyond custom, to look beyond the color of a person's skin. This is what was hoped for, when the Olypics was reborn.
To see it sink to medal counts, and medal production, the complete de-humanization of the entire competition, is sad indeed.
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08/19/2008 03:19:26 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
On world records:
Where do you think the 100 meter record will "end"?
I mean, it is always being broken and may even go down to 9.5** in the coming months.
Will it ever be possible to run it in 9.1 or 8.6 or 4.7 ? Where will it stop?
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Where will it stop? Not sure, but i'll check with our athletes for an update. Usain bolt seems to have paused at 9.69 for the moment.
Thanks for asking :) |
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08/19/2008 03:24:40 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by ambaker:
I'm sick to death of the medal counts. Who's ahead, by what standard? China has more gold, US has more medals. So if it isn't gold, it doesn't count? Ask the silver or bronze medalist, if their medals count.
I am sick of the media quoting "medal production" statistics, as if they were a product like eggs or cars.
I saw the story of the girl from Zimbabwe who won that's country's first medal ever, in the last Olympics. She was welcomed home as a national hero. People named their children after her. 1 medal, only one. How far behind the US, and Russia in the medal count was Zimbabwe? Yet that lonely medal still counted for everything to her and her people. This is what the Olympics is supposed to be about.
The medals are won by people, who have spent a fair portion of their lives working towards that one day, that one moment. History was made this Olympics. One of my countrymen won 8 medals in one Olympics. Never done before, and due to upcoming changes in the swimming competition, unlikely to ever be done again. This is what the Olympics is supposed to be about. Or, do we just lump those in as part of a total, and forget the effort and the amazing display of ability and determination?
The teams from Georgia, and Russia made friends while their countries were at war. This too is what the Olympics is supposed to be about.
It is about rising up, to achieve what seems un-achievable. To look beyond borders, to look beyond custom, to look beyond the color of a person's skin. This is what was hoped for, when the Olypics was reborn.
To see it sink to medal counts, and medal production, the complete de-humanization of the entire competition, is sad indeed. |
Well said and I couldn't agree more, its the same here on the radios about the total medal count BS... glad Im not the only one that thinks this is retarded
-dave |
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08/19/2008 03:25:21 PM · #38 |
She was surely ripped ! Her perfomance was too "close" in the vault competition to the Chinese bronze medal winner for her to have lost out. I don't care what the LOD (level of difficulty) was. Their performances were "too equal" for one to have a disasterous routine and beat out the other for bronze medal.
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by kenskid:
They can have 200 gold medals. One bronze should not have been awarded. The individual valult where the Chinese Gymnast landed on her knees...this gymnast should not have been awarded a bonze. |
That was totally bogus, wasn't it? Alicia Sacramone was totally ripped off. Of course, that was just one of several blatant ripoffs in the gymnastics judging at this year's games. |
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08/19/2008 03:30:03 PM · #39 |
I've been watching since 1972 and it has always been a big deal to anounce the medal count. This is not a "new" thing. I'm sure it was a big deal before '72...for example when the Olympics were held in Berlin.
I tend to agree we make too much deal over the count. That is why on my original comment I said I bet the Chinese would trade 200 gold medals for the 110 hurdle medal they missed out on. That one medal was important because it showed that China could compete in "other" area's of the Olympics. When their man got hurt, people wept in the stands.
Originally posted by ambaker:
I'm sick to death of the medal counts. Who's ahead, by what standard? China has more gold, US has more medals. So if it isn't gold, it doesn't count? Ask the silver or bronze medalist, if their medals count.
I am sick of the media quoting "medal production" statistics, as if they were a product like eggs or cars.
I saw the story of the girl from Zimbabwe who won that's country's first medal ever, in the last Olympics. She was welcomed home as a national hero. People named their children after her. 1 medal, only one. How far behind the US, and Russia in the medal count was Zimbabwe? Yet that lonely medal still counted for everything to her and her people. This is what the Olympics is supposed to be about.
The medals are won by people, who have spent a fair portion of their lives working towards that one day, that one moment. History was made this Olympics. One of my countrymen won 8 medals in one Olympics. Never done before, and due to upcoming changes in the swimming competition, unlikely to ever be done again. This is what the Olympics is supposed to be about. Or, do we just lump those in as part of a total, and forget the effort and the amazing display of ability and determination?
The teams from Georgia, and Russia made friends while their countries were at war. This too is what the Olympics is supposed to be about.
It is about rising up, to achieve what seems un-achievable. To look beyond borders, to look beyond custom, to look beyond the color of a person's skin. This is what was hoped for, when the Olypics was reborn.
To see it sink to medal counts, and medal production, the complete de-humanization of the entire competition, is sad indeed. |
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08/19/2008 03:46:23 PM · #40 |
I dont agree with medal counts, however whilst we are still stuffing the Aussies I am happy to quote them.
Go Team GB!! |
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08/19/2008 03:49:59 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Simms:
I dont agree with medal counts, however whilst we are still stuffing the Aussies I am happy to quote them.
Go Team GB!! |
I feel the same way about the DPC Olympics! :) |
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08/19/2008 03:54:48 PM · #42 |
I really enjoy all aspects of the Olympic games including the medal count. There are some really interesting metrics when you start to look at the medals/population and historical trends in specific sports and also changes since the breakup of the soviet union and the German reconciliation.
With that said, I do think medals are secondary to the games themselves - both individual and team performances. |
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08/19/2008 08:10:27 PM · #43 |
Of course medal counts arent everything, olympics are about individual achievement.
In my original post, i was pointing out how China has advanced greatly in sports, from no medals to having the most gold.
I also really dont see where human rights comes into this talk. China abuses human rights of its citizens, USA and Russia abuse human rights of other countries citizens, dont see what that means in terms of olympic medals |
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08/19/2008 08:15:01 PM · #44 |
double post
Message edited by author 2008-08-19 20:16:27.
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08/19/2008 08:15:50 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Give me a break. USA and Russia abuse human rights of other countries citizens?
I'll bet my last dollar that you would have left Russia out of your statement if they hadn't killed 2000 Georgians in the last two weeks.
China is far away the worst on human rights on the globe. Their selection to host the games was protested from the beginning.
Originally posted by kolasi:
Of course medal counts arent everything, olympics are about individual achievement.
In my original post, i was pointing out how China has advanced greatly in sports, from no medals to having the most gold.
I also really dont see where human rights comes into this talk. China abuses human rights of its citizens, USA and Russia abuse human rights of other countries citizens, dont see what that means in terms of olympic medals |
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Message edited by author 2008-08-19 20:17:59.
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08/19/2008 11:46:15 PM · #46 |
I don't know that it has ever been a requirement that a country be a paragon of virtue to host the Olympics. Hitler was handing out medals in Munich in 1936.
Medals counts are not new, that's certainly true, but the focus on them grows each cycle.
I have no problem with China hosting the Olympics. I doubt that the show they are putting on, is convincing anyone who pays attention to the other things they do. In fact I think the Olympics being held there is a great idea. More outside influence has penetrated the country in the last week, than in the last 10 years. Their citizens have had a better chance to view the outside world up close, than ever before. Does that mean that the revolution starts tomorrow? Certainly not. Hopefully there will be no armed struggle. But the seeds are sown, the dissatisfaction with the status quo will build.
Remember when Russia hosted the Olympics in 1980? There again the seeds were sown by the influx of outsiders and other ideas, and ten years later Russia was a different place.
The Olympics in China may be the best thing that ever happened to us all. Time will tell.
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08/20/2008 01:09:09 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by signal2noise:
This page shows both the weighted average of rank as well as total medals: Medals |
So if Phelps was a country, he'd be tied for 7th place for Gold Ribbon count, or tied for 17th place in total ribbons.
Edit: 7th - I can't read!
Message edited by author 2008-08-20 01:10:59.
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08/20/2008 05:35:13 AM · #48 |
We've already had at least one medallist fail a dope test:
doping
And now another one?
Heptathlon
Message edited by author 2008-08-20 05:38:47.
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08/20/2008 06:22:20 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by ambaker:
I don't know that it has ever been a requirement that a country be a paragon of virtue to host the Olympics. Hitler was handing out medals in Munich in 1936.
Medals counts are not new, that's certainly true, but the focus on them grows each cycle.
I have no problem with China hosting the Olympics. I doubt that the show they are putting on, is convincing anyone who pays attention to the other things they do. In fact I think the Olympics being held there is a great idea. More outside influence has penetrated the country in the last week, than in the last 10 years. Their citizens have had a better chance to view the outside world up close, than ever before. Does that mean that the revolution starts tomorrow? Certainly not. Hopefully there will be no armed struggle. But the seeds are sown, the dissatisfaction with the status quo will build.
Remember when Russia hosted the Olympics in 1980? There again the seeds were sown by the influx of outsiders and other ideas, and ten years later Russia was a different place.
The Olympics in China may be the best thing that ever happened to us all. Time will tell. |
I think that you do not have a very good understanding of China and Chinese culture. Chinese people have a collective mentality and place much greater value on society as a whole rather than the individual. It was like that during feudal times and was one reason why communism was easy to adapt to. So, ideas such as free speech are not as imporant as having a strong nation. I think what the Olympics have done is make CHinese people feel in awe of their country and feel very proud to be part of this new superpower. I cant see Chinese people having a revolution in order to have a system like the USA has any time soon |
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08/20/2008 11:22:53 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by paynekj:
We've already had at least one medallist fail a dope test:
doping
And now another one?
Heptathlon |
Thanks for the link. Good to see we're still on top heheheh :) |
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