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08/07/2008 10:08:59 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by inshaala:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
I don't feel that Barak Obama likes the United States very much. This was an answer he gave yesterday when a 7 year old girl asked him why he wanted to be president. //www.youtube.com/watch?v=d667NAI9HIM Anyone who posted on this thread could have given a better answer than that. Paris Hilton seems like Einstein compared to Obama. |
Actually that was a very good answer if you think about it beyond the negative superficial first listen... |
It's a very good answer to tell a 7 year old the US sucks? |
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08/07/2008 10:51:55 PM · #77 |
| Hmm, let's play: What will Paris Hilton say about Obama's answer? |
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08/08/2008 12:07:09 AM · #78 |
| If any of you haven't seen America: Freedom to Fascism, do yourself a favor - //video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173 |
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08/08/2008 04:28:02 AM · #79 |
Vote for America....Don't vote Obama!!!!!!
Atleast the anti-christ ( Hillary ) dropped out of the election..
Message edited by author 2008-08-08 04:29:38. |
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08/08/2008 06:57:28 AM · #80 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
I don't feel that Barak Obama likes the United States very much. This was an answer he gave yesterday when a 7 year old girl asked him why he wanted to be president. //www.youtube.com/watch?v=d667NAI9HIM Anyone who posted on this thread could have given a better answer than that. Paris Hilton seems like Einstein compared to Obama. |
There is this unwritten rule in America that you're never allowed to say anything negative about your own life, your own kids, your own country. Everything always has to be "Great!".
When you're in a really bad mood because you've just lost your job and someone asks "How are you?" as an American, you have to answer "Great! Thanks!". At least in public. Maybe with close friends and in private you are allowed to discuss your worries.
If your kid has problems at school and burnt down the neighbors shed the previous week and someone asks you "How's Kevin?" as an American, you have to answer "Great! Thanks!". At least in public. Maybe with close friends you can dare to say something like "Well, he's quite a challenge."
The same with the country. Anything negative is considered unpatriotic. However, a patriot doesn't yell "Great! I love America! America is the best!" all day. No, he cares about his country and is worried if he feels things are not going the right way. He speaks up. He makes suggestions for improvement. And you have to admit that in recent years the US has taken a downturn. Check this out for example (must already be a few months old, by now it's even worse): Legacy of Bush
Also, in America, you are already told as a small child that the US is the best country in the world. And you start believing it soon, although you probably haven't ever lived in another country.
Message edited by author 2008-08-08 06:59:02. |
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08/08/2008 09:56:34 AM · #81 |
Where did you get your info from? Your info on the "How are you?" issue is very strange. When I'm asked "how are you?"...I tell them how I feel. If I'm having a bad day...I say it ! I also ask other's "how are you"?...and I times, I get an earfull.
As far as a downturn...Yes...we go through ups and downs but we get back on track.
As far as us "Americans" being told as small children that the U.S. is the "best country in the world"...I can't recall one single time that I've been "taught" that. In addition, I'm not sure how you can say the all of us "Americans" believe we live in the best country in the world...just read through this thread and you will see many that feel the US is way down on the list of best countries.
And you being from France should know that we've been friends for a long time. History shows that the US may have not gained independance without some help from France. And two hundred years later, we repaid France by helping you gain your country back from a person called Hitler.
I myself felt that France was on the wrong track with Chirac in charge. Now with your new President, I feel you are back on track. However, I imagine that you may have liked Chirac and don't like Sarkozy. This is how democracys and free Republics work.
Thanks my French friend,
KS
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
I don't feel that Barak Obama likes the United States very much. This was an answer he gave yesterday when a 7 year old girl asked him why he wanted to be president. //www.youtube.com/watch?v=d667NAI9HIM Anyone who posted on this thread could have given a better answer than that. Paris Hilton seems like Einstein compared to Obama. |
There is this unwritten rule in America that you're never allowed to say anything negative about your own life, your own kids, your own country. Everything always has to be "Great!".
When you're in a really bad mood because you've just lost your job and someone asks "How are you?" as an American, you have to answer "Great! Thanks!". At least in public. Maybe with close friends and in private you are allowed to discuss your worries.
If your kid has problems at school and burnt down the neighbors shed the previous week and someone asks you "How's Kevin?" as an American, you have to answer "Great! Thanks!". At least in public. Maybe with close friends you can dare to say something like "Well, he's quite a challenge."
The same with the country. Anything negative is considered unpatriotic. However, a patriot doesn't yell "Great! I love America! America is the best!" all day. No, he cares about his country and is worried if he feels things are not going the right way. He speaks up. He makes suggestions for improvement. And you have to admit that in recent years the US has taken a downturn. Check this out for example (must already be a few months old, by now it's even worse): Legacy of Bush
Also, in America, you are already told as a small child that the US is the best country in the world. And you start believing it soon, although you probably haven't ever lived in another country. |
Message edited by author 2008-08-08 10:15:07. |
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08/08/2008 10:02:47 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Check this out for example (must already be a few months old, by now it's even worse): Legacy of Bush |
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw recently:
Bush's Legacy:
No Child Left A Dime |
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08/08/2008 10:14:17 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Check this out for example (must already be a few months old, by now it's even worse): Legacy of Bush |
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw recently:
Bush's Legacy:
No Child Left A Dime |
Amen General, amen.
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08/08/2008 10:19:46 AM · #84 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Originally posted by inshaala:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
I don't feel that Barak Obama likes the United States very much. This was an answer he gave yesterday when a 7 year old girl asked him why he wanted to be president. //www.youtube.com/watch?v=d667NAI9HIM Anyone who posted on this thread could have given a better answer than that. Paris Hilton seems like Einstein compared to Obama. |
Actually that was a very good answer if you think about it beyond the negative superficial first listen... |
It's a very good answer to tell a 7 year old the US sucks? |
That's what you heard? That's odd. I heard him say that America is no longer what it once was, nor what it could be, and that he doesn't want that future for his children. He didn't say anything about not liking America, that it "sucks", or anything like that. An astonishing interpretation, really.
Further, it seems just a little more than absurd that he would not like the United States very much. Why? Because he's running for president? Because he's black? Democrat? Articulate? Wants change for the better? |
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08/08/2008 10:22:12 AM · #85 |
You see ...you and I can agree on some things. I myself would like to see every child taken care of in our country. However, I bet we don't agree on how to fund it.
Let's say I want to fund it by not sending 79 billion in aid to Africa (as Bush is about to do) to fight aids. I say that the 79 billion could finance our local fight on Aids and be used to help feed, clothe and educate children here in the US.
You on the other hand...while agreeing with me would likely say fine...let's fight aids here but finance it by cutting off aid to let's say...Isreal not Africa.
One thing for sure about the good old US...we are surely free to express opinions...at least until Obama wins and enacts the "Fairness Doctrine" ;-)
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Check this out for example (must already be a few months old, by now it's even worse): Legacy of Bush |
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw recently:
Bush's Legacy:
No Child Left A Dime |
Message edited by author 2008-08-08 10:23:51. |
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08/08/2008 10:37:01 AM · #86 |
Paris Hilton was funny (when isn't she?)...I still support --> 
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08/08/2008 10:38:18 AM · #87 |
I hear ya glad...but now I'm going to have to look at Obama stickers all over this thread !
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Paris Hilton was funny (when isn't she?)...I still support --> |
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08/08/2008 10:42:11 AM · #88 |
| Oh I just saw that video. Fantastic and good for her. I tried to hate her but I can't any more. LOL |
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08/08/2008 10:58:43 AM · #89 |
I wonder who the real genius is that actually wrote the copy !?!?
Originally posted by Jutilda:
Oh I just saw that video. Fantastic and good for her. I tried to hate her but I can't any more. LOL |
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08/08/2008 11:05:00 AM · #90 |
 kenskid, first of all, although I spend a lot of time in France, my passport is still a Swiss one. ;-)
What I discovered during my time in the US is that the less people know about the rest of the planet the more likely they are to think that America is the best country in the world (in general, of course this doesn't apply to everyone).
And any kind of criticism or merely concern is often quickly branded as unpatriotic. This is exactly what we see happen here with Obama's response to that question. He says that America is no longer what it once was and what it could be. He sees problems and he wishes to fix them. And the reaction you get from the right? "He hates America! He wants to destroy it!" ...
I've heard many one-liners like "Obama will destroy America!", but no one has ever told me what policies they are actually afraid of. Can those of you who would not like to see an Obama presidency explain to me what you think is going to happen?
I can tell you what I'm afraid is going to happen if McCain wins. He vowed to continue the disastrous Bush policies. He promised more war and is eager to start the next world war. He seems to care more for the corporations (like the oil companies who are making dozens of billions in profits and still get more tax cuts) than for the average citizen. And he misspoke so many times about key issues recently that I doubt that he really understands them.
Yes, Obama is a politican and he has some of the flaws they all have. The sad truth is, you don't get to where he is if you don't have them... But for a politician, Obama is surprisingly fair and honest (I'm impressed how he managed to avoid negative campaigning, both in the primaries and now in the general election). And he's curious, he wants to know how things work. He wants to see the different sides of an issue and even has advisors with opposing views (which I consider clever and courageous). He really cares about people (study his biography). And thanks to his upbringing and family he has experience hat extends beyond the US and will be extremely valuable in international relations. And he has a unique talent to excite and mobilize people.
In this crucial election you have the choice between the past and the future, between continuing the policies of the last eight years or changing course. |
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08/08/2008 11:11:40 AM · #91 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
I wonder who the real genius is that actually wrote the copy !?!?
Originally posted by Jutilda:
Oh I just saw that video. Fantastic and good for her. I tried to hate her but I can't any more. LOL |
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Here ya go...from NPR "Talk of the Nation" yesterday (Adam McKay wrote it):
"Paris Hilton is basking in the glow of her successful online video spoof posted on FunnyorDie.com this week.
The comedic video, which pokes fun at her inclusion in a recent John McCain campaign ad, has been viewed more than 3 million times on the comedy Web site.
"It was a lot of fun," the heiress told WWD on Wednesday while in Copenhagen promoting her latest handbag line. She added that she is "a big fan" of FunnyorDie creators Adam McKay and Will Ferrell.
In the clip, Hilton jokingly declares her candidacy for president and lays out her solution for the energy crisis – all while lounging by the pool in a risqué bathing suit. "
ETA - In a more serious light, I echo what  Sam94720 said. Good words, those.
Message edited by author 2008-08-08 11:16:25. |
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08/08/2008 11:43:47 AM · #92 |
I hear ya and will reply to only a few points...
you said "He (McCain) promised more war and is eager to start the next world war."
He didn't promise more War...only to stay in Iraq until they can hold up their country on their own. Currently, it looks like this will be at in 2010 or 2011.
You said "(McCain) is eager to start the next world war) What does eager mean? What statement from McCain leads you to believe he is "eager" to start WW3 ?
For every bad thing that "my" side says about Obama...there are bad things said about McCain. In my opinion...this happens EVERY four years here in the US !
On the "dozens of billions in profit" from oil companies....
The "national" company I work for posts between 15 - 20 percent profit a quarter. Last quarter Exxon posted about a 7% profit. Of course Exxon's 7% is Billions more than my Companies 20% but that doesn't matter. While it may take Millions to run my company...it costs Billions to run Exxon.
As far as Tax Cuts for big Corporations:
Many on the "left" says let's tax big corporations...in my opinion..big corporations don't pay tax increases when they happen...they pass the cost on to the consumer. Now if you feel that corporations should not be allowed to pass on this cost then two things come to mind.
We (the country or the people) can write laws that put price freezes on gas, oil etc...or we can let the "free market" decide if they want to pay the increase. In my opinion, the fact that oil is down from near $140 to $118 shows that the free market is working. We the people (including myself) changed our driving habits when gasoline prices went up. People drove less, carpooled or found cheaper ways to get to the store. Even highway fatalities went down during the time people used their cars less.
Now you may be more astute on the workings of world wide oil prices than me and have a different opinion on why prices dropped in the last few weeks. If so, I'm always willing to listen to other facts or even opinions.
You and I probably agree that oil companies seem to make too much money. We just disagree on how to get them to make less profit.
You also said: In this crucial election you have the choice between the past and the future, between continuing the policies of the last eight years or changing course. The change course is valid but Obama presents it too "broad". I may be wrong but the constant theme of "change" and "hope" may help in getting McCain elected. I see a lot of young people of voting age and under on Youtube.com singing and writing about "change" and "hope". I willingly search these vids out to see if there is ever any substance. There usully is not and the whole song or statement is about "change" for the sake of "change". When there is a statement about "change" that has any substance it is usually to the effect of "change" from Bush not exactly what "change" Obama would bring.
Obama has said he will bring the troops home within 18 months of his taking office. He has changed his opinion on this a few times...which I feel is good. No matter what you think I can guarantee one thing...Obama will not start bringing troops home unless Iraq is ready to take over. Obama or any other demo will not simply pull out...let the country be overrun and let the region become a greater Iran or "Purssia" (sp?). No matter what you think about Obama, he will not let the war be "lost" on his watch.
Edited for added content.
Originally posted by Sam94720:
kenskid, first of all, although I spend a lot of time in France, my passport is still a Swiss one. ;-)
What I discovered during my time in the US is that the less people know about the rest of the planet the more likely they are to think that America is the best country in the world (in general, of course this doesn't apply to everyone).
And any kind of criticism or merely concern is often quickly branded as unpatriotic. This is exactly what we see happen here with Obama's response to that question. He says that America is no longer what it once was and what it could be. He sees problems and he wishes to fix them. And the reaction you get from the right? "He hates America! He wants to destroy it!" ...
I've heard many one-liners like "Obama will destroy America!", but no one has ever told me what policies they are actually afraid of. Can those of you who would not like to see an Obama presidency explain to me what you think is going to happen?
I can tell you what I'm afraid is going to happen if McCain wins. He vowed to continue the disastrous Bush policies. He promised more war and is eager to start the next world war. He seems to care more for the corporations (like the oil companies who are making dozens of billions in profits and still get more tax cuts) than for the average citizen. And he misspoke so many times about key issues recently that I doubt that he really understands them.
Yes, Obama is a politican and he has some of the flaws they all have. The sad truth is, you don't get to where he is if you don't have them... But for a politician, Obama is surprisingly fair and honest (I'm impressed how he managed to avoid negative campaigning, both in the primaries and now in the general election). And he's curious, he wants to know how things work. He wants to see the different sides of an issue and even has advisors with opposing views (which I consider clever and courageous). He really cares about people (study his biography). And thanks to his upbringing and family he has experience hat extends beyond the US and will be extremely valuable in international relations. And he has a unique talent to excite and mobilize people.
In this crucial election you have the choice between the past and the future, between continuing the policies of the last eight years or changing course. |
Message edited by author 2008-08-08 12:23:36. |
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08/08/2008 12:08:42 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
I hear ya and will reply to only a few points...
you said "He (McCain) promised more war and is eager to start the next world war."
He didn't promise more War...only to stay in Iraq until they can hold up their country on their own. Currently, it looks like this will be at in 2010 or 2011.
You said "(McCain) is eager to start the next world war) What does eager mean? What statement from McCain leads you to believe he is "eager" to start WW3 ? |
McCain said he wouldn't care if we stayed a hundred more years in Iraq. And he sang "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran". Just to give you two examples.
Bush & Co. were eager to attack Iraq. For me, back in 2002 and early 2003, it was clear looking from the outside that they had long decided to attack and were just looking for reasons to do so. Now every few weeks we have a new revelation (by McClellan, now Suskind, etc.) that exposes the deception and lies the administration used. McCain relies on the same people and policies.
This might be an interesting read: //www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/25/brzezinski-warns-against_n_114999.html |
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08/08/2008 12:26:16 PM · #94 |
See some other stuff I added above.
If you listen to the whole 100 years thing...he was comparing Iraq to the fact that we are still in Japan, Germany, S. Korea and many other countries. His quote was not that we wished to be in a "hot war" for 100 years...
And one big error your side continues to make in my opinion of course is to keep talking about Bush's policies...or Bush's lies. With the polls so close you must realize by now that at least 1/2 the voting population has already separated Bush from McCain. This is evident in the polls that say Bush's approval ratings are in the toilet while McCain as well as Obama's favorable opinion is well over 50% each.
See my added content above for my opinion on Obama/Iraq pullout.
Thanks,
Kenny
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Originally posted by kenskid:
I hear ya and will reply to only a few points...
you said "He (McCain) promised more war and is eager to start the next world war."
He didn't promise more War...only to stay in Iraq until they can hold up their country on their own. Currently, it looks like this will be at in 2010 or 2011.
You said "(McCain) is eager to start the next world war) What does eager mean? What statement from McCain leads you to believe he is "eager" to start WW3 ? |
McCain said he wouldn't care if we stayed a hundred more years in Iraq. And he sang "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran". Just to give you two examples.
Bush & Co. were eager to attack Iraq. For me, back in 2002 and early 2003, it was clear looking from the outside that they had long decided to attack and were just looking for reasons to do so. Now every few weeks we have a new revelation (by McClellan, now Suskind, etc.) that exposes the deception and lies the administration used. McCain relies on the same people and policies.
This might be an interesting read: //www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/25/brzezinski-warns-against_n_114999.html |
Message edited by author 2008-08-08 12:37:39. |
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08/08/2008 12:37:58 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
As far as us "Americans" being told as small children that the U.S. is the "best country in the world"...I can't recall one single time that I've been "taught" that. In addition, I'm not sure how you can say the all of us "Americans" believe we live in the best country in the world...just read through this thread and you will see many that feel the US is way down on the list of best countries.
And you being from France should know that we've been friends for a long time. History shows that the US may have not gained independance without some help from France. And two hundred years later, we repaid France by helping you gain your country back from a person called Hitler.
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We aren't "taught" things like that, we're indoctrinated. Read a U.S. History textbook (which are almost universally biased to make the U.S. always look like the good guy), reciting the pledge of allegiance etc.
And don't forget that in the middle, during the American Civil War both of our major European allies, England and France, supported the rebellion. The French, in part, by conquering Mexico, setting the stage for a push to the north into the US in support of the confederacy. Fortunately, the war ended and some 50,000 Union troops dispatched to the Mexican border persuaded the French to pack up and go home.
The leaders of England were still kinda PO'ed about the war of 1812 and, after a British ship (the Trent) carrying confederate diplomats was stopped by an American warship and the confederates arrested, the British dispatched some 50,000 troops to Canada.
One European nation that gave tangible support was Czarist Russia who sailed two naval fleets to to winter in New York and San Francisco. The Czar's motives weren't totally altruistic, since he feared war with France and Britain and that his Navy would be icebound had he left them to winter at home.
OK, my diversion into history is over. |
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08/08/2008 12:41:27 PM · #96 |
Hey Kenny, regarding Iraq, what would "winning" even mean? If you think about it, you realize it's impossible to "win" this war.
Yes, you are right about the broad demand for change. It's not very specific. However, it's simply a fact that you cannot start discussing statistics and details in speeches. The sound bites from politicians on TV keep getting shorter and shorter and therefore you have to find something that sums up your position in under 5 seconds. Sadly, the media and our discourse have been dumbed down to this level. In the beginning, Obama was accused of being to professorial and boring people with numbers. ;-) Check out his website, he has detailed plans for all major issues there.
And about the young people: Many of them know almost nothing about the candidates except for their most basic characteristics (old white dude, young black guy). That's shocking, but I don't think it's any different in other age groups. I could even imagine that the young are on average better informed than their parents and grandparents. See this guy for example: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=kica8hmSdAM (The reporter was probably trying to show that young Obama supporters know nothing about the issues. Well, he picked the wrong victim. ;-) ) |
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08/08/2008 12:46:41 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Hey Kenny, regarding Iraq, what would "winning" even mean? If you think about it, you realize it's impossible to "win" this war.
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Here's how Bush defines victory in Iraq.
Hardly cut and dry and parts of it seem more of a pipe dream than anything. |
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08/08/2008 01:15:56 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by frisca:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
All good in jest so long as Barack Hussein doesn't win and make this country an Obamanation. |
This is totally uncalled for and a personal attack. |
I don't know...I thought Obamanation is pretty funny. *lol*
What we really need is to elect someone other than a Democrat or Republican.... |
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08/08/2008 01:49:56 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by frisca:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
All good in jest so long as Barack Hussein doesn't win and make this country an Obamanation. |
This is totally uncalled for and a personal attack. |
I don't know...I thought Obamanation is pretty funny. *lol*
What we really need is to elect someone other than a Democrat or Republican.... |
I don't know enough about politics in the US (I'm Canadian) to say that I'm an Obama supporter, but he does strike me as a breath of fresh air. However, as someone mentioned above, to use just his name and not include his FULL name (that means last name) is implying something insidious. I speak as an international observer only. |
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08/08/2008 02:07:09 PM · #100 |
Hello again,
I've been to Obama's page and even subscribe to his email.
I have seen some of the plans just don't believe in much of what they include. I'm not going to recite again but I think you know my position on "taxing" "redistribution of wealth" etc...
You are right about the media sound bites...
On the issue of the young people knowing a lot about Obama...I'm going to have to disagree. I do at times stumble upon an informed youngster on the web but for the most part they just say "change", "hope" and "change"...as you pointed out though, if they are only getting the 5 second sound bites then how could you blame them?
Thanks for the civilized debate. I have to ignore many posts because they are so "outside" of the post they are "quoting" from or they start in with the Bush...Bush...he lied...Bushes' policies stink...etc.
Originally posted by Sam94720:
Hey Kenny, regarding Iraq, what would "winning" even mean? If you think about it, you realize it's impossible to "win" this war.
Yes, you are right about the broad demand for change. It's not very specific. However, it's simply a fact that you cannot start discussing statistics and details in speeches. The sound bites from politicians on TV keep getting shorter and shorter and therefore you have to find something that sums up your position in under 5 seconds. Sadly, the media and our discourse have been dumbed down to this level. In the beginning, Obama was accused of being to professorial and boring people with numbers. ;-) Check out his website, he has detailed plans for all major issues there.
And about the young people: Many of them know almost nothing about the candidates except for their most basic characteristics (old white dude, young black guy). That's shocking, but I don't think it's any different in other age groups. I could even imagine that the young are on average better informed than their parents and grandparents. See this guy for example: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=kica8hmSdAM (The reporter was probably trying to show that young Obama supporters know nothing about the issues. Well, he picked the wrong victim. ;-) ) |
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