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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> I find this fairly unfair SC
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 07/01/2008 01:30:58 AM · #1
My shot for the Free Study, In The Arms Of An Angel was disqualified.

I had used the bulge tool. The bulge tool was used to bulge the edges so they where more round. Not make the entire thing.

I asked in the forum if this was okay to use and a SC member said it was

I was asked for validation during the challenge and it was validated by SC

I got an email this morning saying it was now disqualified for the bulge tool A WHOLE month later

Why say it was okay to use the tool and validate it in challenge and then weeks later disqualify it.

Bad show

Message edited by author 2008-07-01 01:41:35.
 07/01/2008 01:37:39 AM · #2
Originally posted by JulietNN:
My shot for the Free Study, In The Arms Of An Angel was disqualified.

I had used the bulge tool.

I asked in the forum if this was okay to use and a SC member said it was

I was asked for validation during the challenge and it was validated by SC

I got an email this morning saying it was now disqualified for the bulge tool A WHOLE month later

Why say it was okay to use the tool and validate it in challenge and then weeks later disqualify it.

Bad show


OUCH! Left a comment for ya
 07/01/2008 01:44:11 AM · #3
Juliet,

Sorry that you were first validated, then DQ'd. The initial validation was an error on our part, as it was validated without a majority of SC votes.

While the Bulge tool "IS" ok to use very subtly, the changes you made with it weren't subtle at all. If you reread the discussion on that,

Originally posted by mk:
This was an entry that was disqualified for use of the liquify tool. Using it to that extent is obviously illegal but I'm guessing that subtle use like in the example Brad posted is fine. It's not illegal to move pixels in advance


Originally posted by kirbic:
...any really significant shape or position changes will probable result in a DQ. Use carefully.


Originally posted by scalvert:
What Kirbic said. If you can tell there's distortion, then you're in risky territory since the distortion itself would likely be a considered significant created feature. Using it for light touchup should be fine.


Note the rules specifically say:

"You may not use distortions to create new effects or radically alter objects."

In your shot, the cape has been radically altered, and this was the basis of your DQ.

Message edited by author 2008-07-01 01:45:28.
 07/01/2008 02:04:04 AM · #4
Fair enough

You know maybe it would be a good idea to just totally ban the liquifying tools set completely. Then there would be no confusion as to why one person can use it and another can not etc.

As for getting validated and then disqualified, I guess shit happens, that is still a bad show though and really shouldnt have happened like that. But we live and learn!

Thanks

PS, Thank you for the email Neil, appreciate it.

Message edited by author 2008-07-01 02:29:57.
 07/01/2008 05:02:16 AM · #5
Sounds like double-jeopardy. Unconstitutional if you ask me. ...what, nobody did? Oh ok.
Sorry, Juliet. This sucks and seems silly and unnecessary a month later. Should I gather a lynch mob?
 07/01/2008 05:38:38 AM · #6
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Sounds like double-jeopardy. Unconstitutional if you ask me. ...what, nobody did? Oh ok.
Sorry, Juliet. This sucks and seems silly and unnecessary a month later. Should I gather a lynch mob?


What's happening? Gather? I thought you had your lynch mobs on standby...
 07/01/2008 05:55:49 AM · #7
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Sounds like double-jeopardy. Unconstitutional if you ask me. ...what, nobody did? Oh ok.
Sorry, Juliet. This sucks and seems silly and unnecessary a month later. Should I gather a lynch mob?

Originally posted by raish:
What's happening? Gather? I thought you had your lynch mobs on standby...

With torches even!
 07/01/2008 07:49:37 AM · #8
JulietNN: I don't understand, I made a validation, do you have my validation?

nshapiro: Yes, we do, unfortunately, in your shot, the cape has been radically altered, and it must be DQ'd.

JulietNN: But the validation means you found my editing to be legal. That's why you have the
validation.

nshapiro: I know why we have validations.

JulietNN: I don't think you do. If you did, my photo wouldn't be DQ'd. See, you know how to
make the validation, you just don't know how to *hold* the validation and
that's really the most important part of the validation, the holding. Anybody
can just make them.

nshapiro: Let me, uh, speak with my supervisor.

* nshapiro goes into an office with a window in the door so he can be seen
speaking with someone.*

JulietNN: Uh, here we go. The supervisor. You know what he's saying over there?

Art Roflmao: What?

JulietNN: Hey Langdon, you see those two people over there? They think I'm talking
to you, so you pretend like you're talking to me, okay now you start talking.

Art Roflmao: Oh, you mean like this? So it looks like I'm saying something but I'm
not really saying anything at all?

JulietNN: Now you say something else and they won't yell at me 'cause they thought
I was checking with you.

Art Roflmao: Okay, that's it. I think that's enough, see you later.

* nshapiro returns.*

nshapiro: I'm sorry, my supervisor says there's nothing we can do.

JulietNN: Yeah, it looked as if you were in a real conversation over there.

nshapiro: But we do have an apology if you would like that.

JulietNN: Fine.

nshapiro: Alright. Sorry that you were first validated, then DQ'd. The initial validation was an error on our part, Juliet. Would you like insurance?

JulietNN: Yeah, you better give me the insurance, because I am gonna beat the hell
out of this apology.

nshapiro: Please fill this out.

07/01/2008 07:57:31 AM · #9
brilliant!
 07/01/2008 08:20:19 AM · #10
lol, too cute!
 07/01/2008 08:33:09 AM · #11
lol cheeky!

*hides before anyone in SC reads Slippy's post*
 07/01/2008 08:52:35 AM · #12
Slippy - a total classic. Subtle as a pie in the face. ;-)
 07/01/2008 09:07:30 AM · #13
I cry FOUL, but no sense re-stirring the pot. Sorry, Juliet. If that happened to me I think I'd black out from frustration.

07/01/2008 10:04:09 AM · #14
Id' like to know whats the punishment is for the sc members that validated the image? After all they broke there own rule validating the image in the first place. If we can't trust the SC whats the sence of having one.

Message edited by author 2008-07-01 10:04:37.
 07/01/2008 10:06:28 AM · #15
The suspense is killing me...

How are the SC cheerleaders going to spin this one?? (here's one: you can say they're hardworking for judging each photo twice!)

Will scalvert try to make Juliet feel stupid for even thinking that there's anything wrong with DQing a validated image? (perhaps he'll bring in Pluto's recent demotion from planethood?)

Is Juliet packing a Luger?
07/01/2008 10:11:57 AM · #16
Originally posted by Frankie_Lv:
After all they broke there own rule validating the image in the first place.

The image was inadvertently validated with only 3 votes. The rules say, "All disqualifications are determined by majority vote of the Site Council." Three votes is not a majority per the rules, so it was put back into the queue and we waived the DQ penalty because of the confusion. I'm not sure what else we could do in the name of fairness.
 07/01/2008 10:18:38 AM · #17
a chocolate chip cookie couldn't hurt
 07/01/2008 10:20:31 AM · #18
I know, you can all come to my house and clean it for a week!!! =)
 07/01/2008 10:25:24 AM · #19
It seems remarkably unfair that SC validated the image and passed along to the photog that she was all set for the challenge and then revoked it later. If SC's policies were not followed, but JulietNN did follow proper protocol to get pre-validation on an image she was unsure of and contacted SC about it, she should be all set. It seems even though SC failed to follow their own policy, someone should be granted dispensation - and that person should be Juliet.

Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Frankie_Lv:
After all they broke there own rule validating the image in the first place.

The image was inadvertently validated with only 3 votes. The rules say, "All disqualifications are determined by majority vote of the Site Council." Three votes is not a majority per the rules, so it was put back into the queue and we waived the DQ penalty because of the confusion. I'm not sure what else we could do in the name of fairness.
07/01/2008 10:27:59 AM · #20
Please note that there is no such thing as 'pre-validation'. All we offer is a review (when asked via help->contact us) of the proposed technique or particular edit, and that review is only ever done by a small number of SC, not the majority, thus won't always guarantee validation during the challenge.
 07/01/2008 10:28:07 AM · #21
Originally posted by bassbone:
If SC's policies were not followed, but JulietNN did follow proper protocol to get pre-validation on an image she was unsure of and contacted SC about it, she should be all set.


Just to make it clear -- Juliet did NOT contact SC and ask pre-challenge. She mentioned/asked about it in a thread (quoted above/below).
 07/01/2008 10:28:07 AM · #22
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I know, you can all come to my house and clean it for a week!!! =)

Woo!
07/01/2008 10:30:03 AM · #23
No sorry bass, i was asked to send the photo in for validation during the chalenge and recieved SC validation during the challenge.

I had started a thread asking if the bulge tool in Advanced editing was allowed and got a yes it can.

On my part, I think that becuase I asked adn was told yes, but to use it lightly or to make a person thinner, then there would be no problems making the cape a little larger or rounder at the top.

So I went ahead and did it, got asked by SC request, listed my steps and got a validation a ouple of days before the challenge ended.



Message edited by author 2008-07-01 10:34:06.
 07/01/2008 10:32:34 AM · #24
Originally posted by karmat:
Just to make it clear -- Juliet did NOT contact SC and ask pre-challenge. She mentioned/asked about it in a thread (quoted above/below).

See nshapiro's first post in this thread. Significant parts of the entry were drawn in (illegal regardless of the tools used). It's up to Juliet if she wants to share the original for comparison.

Message edited by author 2008-07-01 10:33:40.
 07/01/2008 10:38:46 AM · #25
so if i were going away tomorrow, and asked for an image i was to enter in a challenge that would be voted on while i was away to be validated prior to me leaving, there would be no guarantee that the validation would hold water?

that seems a bit silly to me. what's the point ?

Originally posted by Manic:
Please note that there is no such thing as 'pre-validation'. All we offer is a review (when asked via help->contact us) of the proposed technique or particular edit, and that review is only ever done by a small number of SC, not the majority, thus won't always guarantee validation during the challenge.


Message edited by author 2008-07-01 10:38:55.
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