How to Rant Effectively - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

06/10/2008 11:38:51 PM · #1

Dear Rant Enthusiast,

Thank you for your opinion. Please accept mine as a possible counter to your position. In so doing, please refrain from mistaking my argument as either an opinion on your personality, or an attack against your character.

As a fellow faceless, bodiless voice in a sea of websites, I have no idea who or what you are, and can't possibly have an informed opinion about your personality; therefore, if I present something for your consideration, you can bet it has nothing to do with what I think of you, and has everything to do with my reaction to some stated position you've offered for my consumption. You see, since we are both in effect anonymous, I likely don't really care that much about you anyway, beyond the usual wishes for long life, happiness for you and your family, and an end to whatever particular suffering you may experience from time to time.

As a courtesy, please in kind refrain from attacking my personality because you disagree with my argument. I'm sure you already know, but this is known as an ad hominem argument, and is one of the weakest of the logical fallacies. Should you offer an ad hominem argument attacking my character or the character of others, simply because you don't like some position being presented to you, you will likely be forever discredited whenever you try to speak publicly again.

In short, whereas I'm always happy to discuss ideas, and I love a good argument from time to time -- a real argument, not a catalogue of insults -- we would all be much happier and better informed about what others think if we keep our opinions, arguments, and positions on-topic. If you wish to continue to Rant with style, you merely have to present your arguments passionately, consistently, evenly, and lucidly, while keeping cool, and without being insulted at the mere presence of contrary opinions.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't thrust and parry, and be forceful about what you say; quite the opposite. But when you begin to interpret contrary opinions as slights against you personally, your argument collapses, and your point is lost.

Stick to your position, and the characters of those you're arguing with will speak for themselves. Stay on point, and let's offer one another the courtesy and respect due to rational, mature adults.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

06/10/2008 11:53:33 PM · #2

You're wrong.

And your socks smell funny.

Next.

:) ;) :P

togtog

Nikon D300

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 IF EX DG HSM for Canon

06/10/2008 11:54:30 PM · #3

Damn it karmat, I was going to say he smelled funny, now I have nothing :(

coronamv

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

06/10/2008 11:57:13 PM · #4

As one studies debates you soon come to realize the one that strays from the debate and resorts to name calling and character assasination attemps is loosing since they have nothing productive to offer to their cause. I tend to start smiling once this occurs. BTW Kennedy Lost the Nixon debate... He just looked better on tv.

JMart

Nikon D80

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

06/10/2008 11:59:18 PM · #5

Uh...

uh.....

hmmm...

Geee Louis, but without ad hominems I have nothing :-P

Nikon D200

06/10/2008 11:59:29 PM · #6

Discussion happens in the Discussion areas; it's pretty pointless to expect rational debate in a Rant forum where the general purpose is to leave excited, wild, and vehement utterances not suitable elsewhere.

togtog

Nikon D300

06/11/2008 12:02:30 AM · #7

Originally posted by L2:

Shut up L2 no one asked you!

Edit: Sorry, I cannot even playfully insult someone without feeling guilty :( I meant no offense. :(

Message edited by author 2008-06-11 00:03:11.

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

06/11/2008 12:37:48 AM · #8

Originally posted by L2:

Then stop moving threads around.

overclover

Canon EOS-40D

06/11/2008 08:01:58 AM · #9

rant
â��verb (used without object)

1. to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave: The demagogue ranted for hours.

â��verb (used with object)

2. to utter or declaim in a ranting manner.

â��noun

3. ranting, extravagant, or violent declamation.

4. a ranting utterance.

I posted in the RANT section. As I said in my own thread I do believe you're having a problem with the meaning of rant, versus discussion. So I thought I may help you out with the definition! If I wanted to listen to the opinions of someone who can argue with, what to me is a vile thing for grown men to think say or do, then I may have chosen the general discussion for that!

The fact that you do not see my point or that you seemingly disagree with me having a problem with men finding underage children and teens sexually attractive and men 3 times their age saying so means I did exactly what I set out to do, RANT! And as I posted in the rant section and you had a problem with my ranting lololol does make this post of yours extremely laughable.

I chose rant because I knew it was a rant and because of the possibilty that individuals like yourself may see nothing wrong with my point and as such I would say what I thought about that and did. The fact that you find my rant to be of a hysterical nature is rather oxymoronic condsidering it was posted in RANT!

However I presented my argument it sure as heck ruffled your feathers! For you to go to the extreme of being so pompous as to try and tell people how to rant. Kudos Einstein.

Cheers big ears!

dsray

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/11/2008 08:10:20 AM · #10

Oh yea? Well Mom always liked you best!

06/11/2008 08:29:35 AM · #11

Originally posted by L2:

Incidentally, you'll notice that my post is specifically about character attacks and insults. Your comment seems to suggest that these are just fine, so long as they are posted in the appropriate place. Did you really mean to say that Rant is a free-for-all, and people can get away with saying anything they like?

Nikon D200

06/11/2008 08:36:47 AM · #12

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by L2:
Discussion happens in the Discussion areas; it's pretty pointless to expect rational debate in a Rant forum where the general purpose is to leave excited, wild, and vehement utterances not suitable elsewhere.

Incidentally, you'll notice that my post is specifically about character attacks and insults. Your comment seems to suggest that these are just fine, so long as they are posted in the appropriate place. Did you really mean to say that Rant is a free-for-all, and people can get away with saying anything they like?

You know very well that while Rant threads are moderated, they are not moderated as strictly as the other forum areas because, well, it is intended to be a place to vent. (As stated on the Community/Forum page description.) Personal attacks are not OK, no matter where they appear.

It seems like what you are trying to do is introduce logic and rational behavior into an area where the purpose is to vent the emotional and irrational. Lost cause, IMO, but carry on.

06/11/2008 08:43:38 AM · #13

Originally posted by L2:

It seems like what you are trying to do is introduce logic and rational behavior into an area where the purpose is to vent the emotional and irrational.

Actually, I've wanted to start this post for many months now, always finding myself in the position of defending my character in the midst of discussions having nothing to do with my character, and needing something convenient to link to for future use. :P Yes, this usually happens in Rant, but not always. I considered posting in General, but figured it would find its way here anyway.

Ninety percent of the discussions in Rant are thrust/parry arguments having little to do with venting. A call for more civil behaviour would be welcome by you, I would think, especially given that all it means is a request to curb personal insults and character attacks -- something always said to be against forum rules, irrespective of its location.

Nikon D200

06/11/2008 08:52:45 AM · #14

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by L2:
It seems like what you are trying to do is introduce logic and rational behavior into an area where the purpose is to vent the emotional and irrational.

Actually, I've wanted to start this post for many months now, always finding myself in the position of defending my character in the midst of discussions having nothing to do with my character, and needing something convenient to link to for future use. :P Yes, this usually happens in Rant, but not always. I considered posting in General, but figured it would find its way here anyway.

Ninety percent of the discussions in Rant are thrust/parry arguments having little to do with venting. A call for more civil behaviour would be welcome by you, I would think, especially given that all it means is a request to curb personal insults and character attacks -- something always said to be against forum rules, irrespective of its location.

Okay, let's start here: I challenge everyone to recognize when a Rant post sounds like a call for debate rather than a vent post where the OP just wants agreement in order to feel better, and frame their posts accordingly.