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05/02/2008 10:51:56 PM · #1 |
(LONG POST, but please help me and read this)
Hey guys,
This summer I am in the process of starting my own sports photography business. I have a pretty solid business plan settup and I have my target market chosen and contacted (I'll be targeting the summer soccer clubs that I was/am a part of). My plan is to start off small providing proffessional quality photos for an affordable price. Eventually, next year as I continue to build my client base, I will begin to offer prints (done through labs), though for this first summer photos will be exclusivley on CD's. My main question as of now is a pricing/package issue. Seeing as this summer I will be offering only CD based photos these are my questions as follows:
A. What should I charge per/hour (ideally something that is fair but still is reasonable for me)? I think that is a good way to start off instead of charging a baseline price. (tell me if you disagree and why!). I.E. $8.00 per/Hour as opposed to $XXX.XX for a whole job.
B. How should I arrange packages? Should I offer different numbers of photos (aka packages) on these CD's? I.E. Package A is a CD with 100 photos, etc etc.
C. If you could perhaps give me a few prices that would coincide with the package sizes?
D. Any further advice you would have for me!
Thank you guys so much for reading this long post! Looking forward to reading your answers!
Evan
PS I appreciate your help in advanced! Also, this is one of the last things I need to get in place before I can start finalizing agreements with a few of my clients. I do have an informational interview set up with a local photographer set up to help me get some better ideas, but I would also really appreciate any help you guys have (and your greater experience)! |
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05/02/2008 11:14:39 PM · #2 |
search the forums before starting a thread. One similar has been started recently and a triad of others are floating around with tons of information.
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05/02/2008 11:29:21 PM · #3 |
I think you have to sell prints to make real money. If you want to charge by the hour you probably need to get about $100 an hour per person. I know you can sell $1000 a day worth of prints. I doubt you can get anyone to pay you $100 per hour.
Message edited by author 2008-05-02 23:33:42. |
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05/02/2008 11:38:45 PM · #4 |
Thanks for your posts, I've read the other forum posts already but this is different from those posts and I have my own issues I need to have addressed. This business is going to be supplementary for now. My primary job is going to be working at a photography studio this summer. I realize real money is going to be with prints but that's outside the scope of my business plan till the following summer when I will be more financially stabe, better organization, etc etc. I wouldnt dream of being able to charge 100 for hour at this point in my career. I was thinking of having like 10-15/hour along with CD packages costing an additional price.
Evan,
Thanks again for your advice and constructive critisism! |
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05/22/2008 04:42:39 AM · #5 |
You could contact your local Small Business Develoment Center with business questions.
//www.mnsbdc.com/findCenter.htm
Not sure about Minnesota, but business counseling is free here in Mississippi.
Message edited by author 2008-05-22 04:42:56. |
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05/22/2008 05:00:22 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by StOlafPhotographer:
...I've read the other forum posts already but this is different from those posts and I have my own issues I need to have addressed. |
I think  littlegett was referring to this thread. |
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05/22/2008 09:30:18 AM · #7 |
| I think you should charge by the team or by the day. Most teams, leagues, coaches will have no idea how long it will take to take the photos and will, as a consequence have no idea how much it will cost. |
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05/22/2008 09:36:43 AM · #8 |
Also, don't forget about the time that it takes to process your images, the time you'll need to create your CDs or order your prints, the cost of the CDs or prints, liability insurance, equipment insurance, etc., etc.
Photography isn't like a job at the mall where you get an hourly wage for your time and that's that. You need to figure your COS (cost of goods) to determine what to charge.
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05/22/2008 10:16:22 AM · #9 |
There are two kinds of sports photography businesses - T&I and action.
T&I (team and individual) is where the money is, but it's a hell of a lot of work and if you screw up (or are percevied as screwing up) you can lose the team instantly (for next year). It takes a while to get your name out there and then to actually get a team - you MUST be ready BEFORE you even go searching for this. My first league was a 600 kid soccer league and they, typical of volunterr orgs, made a decision 2 week before they wanted their picture day, so they wanted 600 forms in 2 days. that means pricing. That means I had 2 weeks to find photog to help me shoot this to fit the time schedule they wanted, and the day of the shoot it was raining so outdoors became the gym and I had to bring BGs and studio lights, etc.
Action sports fall into 2 categories - events (tournaments, etc) and for those it's an INDUSTRY. To compete you'll need 1 to 10 more people( depends on how you run it, size of event, etc), a trailer with computers and software, printers for printing onsite, etc. You ahve shooters that shot each game (often there are 4 to 8 games going on at the same time). They MUST shoot EVERY KID. You have runners shuffling cards between shooters and the trailer, where someone uploads the cards, edits out the bad ones QUICKLY, and names them by game/team and puts themon the network for teh families to see and pick from. THey then order and you need a production area to print and package for delivery. Dye Sub printers are what most event photogs use. You almost always have to pay a fee to the organization that runs the event, and usually only one photog gets in. Trailer and software can be had used for $10,000 and up. see //www.prophotohome.com/ as there are a lot of event photogs there.
What it sounds like you want to do is shoot local games and put the images online for folks to buy. Fine, this can work too. There are many website out there that won't charge you to upload images (instaproofs.com is one I like). They ALL take a percentage of the sale, but that's OK as they can do a lot. Some will print and ship the images, but that means you upload the hi res files. Some like Instaproofs send me an email with every order and I use my lab and I ship out. I don't do high volume so it works for me, but if you've got 30 orders a week you might want to find someplace that handles it all for you.
Pricing? Hard to say. Go too cheap and it's not worth your time and effort (sell 10 images a game and 3 games a week at $4/image that's only $120 a week for showing up and shooting for 9 hours). I doubt you'll sell many more if even that many. And unless it's a State Final or some such one action shot of my kid playing is all I'm buying for a WHOLE SEASON. My kid's in knothole baseball and we travel. My league may know me, but the teams we travel to play don't. So getting them to buy is hard - you've got the cost of handing out cards to EVERYONE at EVERY game EVERY time, and of course need a shirt with your name on teh back in big letters for all to see. We've got 6 teams in our division plus the 6 we travel to play and about 13 kids on a team - 140 kids maybe. So if EVERYONE bought one image (VERY unlikely) that's only $1000. Probably not worth it.
good luck, it may work out for you. Just expect a LOT of long hours, low wages for the next 3 years (it takes at least that long for a business to gain traction) before you begin to see results. If you hang in there and are determined to make it a success you will. Most people just give up too soon.
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05/22/2008 10:17:16 AM · #10 |
Really my gut tells me that groups will be reluctant to hire you over someone else that will give them prints, the logic being why pay for someone to come and take pictures then pay for a cd when I then have to go and print them myself, when the other guy is giving me what I want... the prints... may be a tough sell.
Even though this is just to supliment your income you will still need to offer the same if not better service than the other guy. |
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05/22/2008 10:19:47 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by StOlafPhotographer:
Thanks for your posts, I've read the other forum posts already but this is different from those posts and I have my own issues I need to have addressed. This business is going to be supplementary for now. My primary job is going to be working at a photography studio this summer. I realize real money is going to be with prints but that's outside the scope of my business plan till the following summer when I will be more financially stabe, better organization, etc etc. I wouldnt dream of being able to charge 100 for hour at this point in my career. I was thinking of having like 10-15/hour along with CD packages costing an additional price.
Evan,
Thanks again for your advice and constructive critisism! |
If you ain't worth $100 an hour then you're not worth a damn as a photographer. Sorry, but that's what you've got to charge (or close to it) to make it worthwhile - you will have costs out the ying yang and need capital to grow your business - advertising, gear, office stuff, computers, INSURANCE - one kids runs into you on a field and you'll be ruined if you don't have it (broken gear, hurt kid, etc).
AND KIDS GET HURT - just ask my friend Jeremy who had a bring your kid to work day. TWO kids went to the hospital (including his own) and one lost a finger permanently. And it was FRIGGIN OFFICE!
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05/22/2008 11:05:36 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by StOlafPhotographer:
Thanks for your posts, I've read the other forum posts already but this is different from those posts and I have my own issues I need to have addressed. This business is going to be supplementary for now. My primary job is going to be working at a photography studio this summer. I realize real money is going to be with prints but that's outside the scope of my business plan till the following summer when I will be more financially stabe, better organization, etc etc. I wouldnt dream of being able to charge 100 for hour at this point in my career. I was thinking of having like 10-15/hour along with CD packages costing an additional price.
Evan,
Thanks again for your advice and constructive critisism! |
If you ain't worth $100 an hour then you're not worth a damn as a photographer. Sorry, but that's what you've got to charge (or close to it) to make it worthwhile - you will have costs out the ying yang and need capital to grow your business - advertising, gear, office stuff, computers, INSURANCE - one kids runs into you on a field and you'll be ruined if you don't have it (broken gear, hurt kid, etc).
AND KIDS GET HURT - just ask my friend Jeremy who had a bring your kid to work day. TWO kids went to the hospital (including his own) and one lost a finger permanently. And it was FRIGGIN OFFICE! |
Many organizations and leagues won't even consider hiring you unless you have liability insurance. |
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05/22/2008 11:49:37 AM · #13 |
Cost of doing business calculator
A successful business makes money. Charging 10-15 bucks an hour for professional photography might end up paying for a lens or two down the road, but it ain't gonna pay the bills or put food on your table...
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05/22/2008 11:53:40 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by StOlafPhotographer:
Thanks for your posts, I've read the other forum posts already but this is different from those posts and I have my own issues I need to have addressed. This business is going to be supplementary for now. My primary job is going to be working at a photography studio this summer. I realize real money is going to be with prints but that's outside the scope of my business plan till the following summer when I will be more financially stabe, better organization, etc etc. I wouldnt dream of being able to charge 100 for hour at this point in my career. I was thinking of having like 10-15/hour along with CD packages costing an additional price.
Evan,
Thanks again for your advice and constructive critisism! |
If you ain't worth $100 an hour then you're not worth a damn as a photographer. Sorry, but that's what you've got to charge (or close to it) to make it worthwhile - you will have costs out the ying yang and need capital to grow your business - advertising, gear, office stuff, computers, INSURANCE - one kids runs into you on a field and you'll be ruined if you don't have it (broken gear, hurt kid, etc).
AND KIDS GET HURT - just ask my friend Jeremy who had a bring your kid to work day. TWO kids went to the hospital (including his own) and one lost a finger permanently. And it was FRIGGIN OFFICE! |
Many organizations and leagues won't even consider hiring you unless you have liability insurance. |
Now adays I wouldn't consider doing anyhting involving children without insurance... one wrong look, one wrong move and... well read the news you'll get the idea. |
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05/22/2008 11:54:35 AM · #15 |
i've said this in (i think) every similar thread:
A guy i know who runs his own studio through a franchise here in UK does the shoot for free, then charges over the odds for the prints. Parents aren't gonna say no to a print of their kid no matter what the price.
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05/22/2008 12:26:42 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Eyesup:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by StOlafPhotographer:
Thanks for your posts, I've read the other forum posts already but this is different from those posts and I have my own issues I need to have addressed. This business is going to be supplementary for now. My primary job is going to be working at a photography studio this summer. I realize real money is going to be with prints but that's outside the scope of my business plan till the following summer when I will be more financially stabe, better organization, etc etc. I wouldnt dream of being able to charge 100 for hour at this point in my career. I was thinking of having like 10-15/hour along with CD packages costing an additional price.
Evan,
Thanks again for your advice and constructive critisism! |
If you ain't worth $100 an hour then you're not worth a damn as a photographer. Sorry, but that's what you've got to charge (or close to it) to make it worthwhile - you will have costs out the ying yang and need capital to grow your business - advertising, gear, office stuff, computers, INSURANCE - one kids runs into you on a field and you'll be ruined if you don't have it (broken gear, hurt kid, etc).
AND KIDS GET HURT - just ask my friend Jeremy who had a bring your kid to work day. TWO kids went to the hospital (including his own) and one lost a finger permanently. And it was FRIGGIN OFFICE! |
Many organizations and leagues won't even consider hiring you unless you have liability insurance. |
Now adays I wouldn't consider doing anyhting involving children without insurance... one wrong look, one wrong move and... well read the news you'll get the idea. |
Personally, I wouldn't do anything at all business-wise without insurance, not just kids. |
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05/22/2008 04:27:30 PM · #17 |
While i've not seen it in teh sports area (yet) some school require clearances (child molestation, criminal ) before they'll let a photog in. It's around here in some preschools now, and from what I understand, it's growing. So perhaps having you and your employees cleared in this area might even be a selling point!
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