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05/06/2008 08:04:36 AM · #26 |
If the automated settings like aperture priority or shutter speed priority already meet all your needs then there is no reason to do anything different. Manual is cumbersome and requires more work which can cause you to miss shots.
That being said, I use full manual almost exclusively for these reasons:
1-Creative exposure control
Every composition is unique. I always expose for either the brightest area in the frame or for the main subject or for some other image unique reason. I find that when the camera makes exposure decisions for me I often don't like the result. Flash obviously has it's own exposure challenges but I don't use flash much.
2-Creative control over DOF through aperture settings
3-Creative control over stop action through shutter speed settings
But then I come from a background using manual settings and it is more natural for me than the automated selections.
Message edited by author 2008-05-06 08:10:04.
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05/06/2008 08:14:54 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Trinch:
I probably should have mentioned earlier, that Av would be totally useless when using a flash. I realize that. My point was that for everyday, out and about, natural light photography, doesn't manual mode just add an extra step without adding much benefit. I also see that if you need consistent exposure over several shots, manual is a must (ie stitching landscapes). |
So your question SHOULD have been:
Why use manual mode in any situation where you wouldn't use manual mode?
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05/06/2008 08:18:10 AM · #28 |
| I shoot nature primarily. 95% in M mode. I bracket alot. I want control. When I set it I don't want the camera to change it 2 seconds later. Changing ISO is not a smart option. Its really not that hard with built in meters. |
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05/06/2008 08:35:43 AM · #29 |
manual when the lighting is dynamic (e.g., concerts, high contrast lighting, rapidly changing lighting) Av mode when the scene is changing but the lighting fairly generic or I can control the lighting(outdoor sports, street portraits), manual if I'm using flash or strobes (because Av or Tv assumes fill flash and meters for ambient). Even in Av mode I'm typically using quite a bit of exposure compensation + or - depending on the tonality of the scene.
Basically any of the times a meter is typically fooled I'll switch to manual. There are plenty of situations where the meter gets fooled, it is just a question of understanding when.
Message edited by author 2008-05-06 10:14:45. |
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05/06/2008 08:47:00 AM · #30 |
for some reason I cant get my D2X out of FM2 mode...what is this av thing ???
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05/06/2008 09:02:40 AM · #31 |
| Seems to me when I shoot in Aperture priority, I get a lot of blown out skies and other parts of the shot. I generally shoot at the f5.6 and 100 ISO and adjust my shutter speed only. Sure, aperture priority works some of the time, but why not get it right all of the time? Why change your exposure bias when it's probably easier just to put it in manual. |
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05/06/2008 09:18:06 AM · #32 |
Here's what it basically boils down to, for me: when I shoot in any of the auto modes, Av or Tv primarily, I have a bit of a tendency to get lazy, to trust the camera to figure things out for me. And while the camera is usually in the ballpark, it's seldom exactly right. When I shoot manual, which I do most of the time, "lazy" isn't an option. In manual, I have to think each time I compose a scene. For the kind of work I mostly do, this is a real plus. I can see using Av or Tv for fast-breaking action, say, but I don't use these modes for scenics, or any kind of tripod work.
But I grew up on the old-school SLRs, where there was NO auto at all, just a "center the needle" meter display in the viewfinder window; exactly what manual mode is now. So I'm used to it, it gives me complete control, I'm happy with it.
I leave my camera in the bag set at f/8 with Av on the mode dial; this gives me the likelihood of getting a decent exposure and DOF if I make a grab shot out of the bag in a hurry. I switch it to Manual when I mount it on the tripod.
R. |
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05/06/2008 09:26:19 AM · #33 |
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05/06/2008 09:30:15 AM · #34 |
Hey - Five Rivers is in Delmar... :)
I wish they maintained the pond areas like they used to. Was a much nicer place a few years ago. |
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05/06/2008 09:56:43 AM · #35 |
I only shoot Manual. Some serious Pro shooter firends of mine only use AV, TV, or Program. My reason for only shooting Manual and why I will probably eventually go to one of the other modes after many more years of experience is this:
As we all have come to understand, taking a great photo is not an easy task. I remember back in the old days a story that said a computer that could catch a fly ball in a baseball game would oppcupy a room the size of a school gym. This is because there is so much going on and so many variables and adjustments needed, it would be nearly impposbile to do. I'm sure those days have changed, but the concept for me is still the same.
My friends that are Pro shooters have been taking pictures for a bazillion years. These guys just laugh when I mention that I am thinking about a light meter. That is because they have done this for so long that many aspects of shooting have become automatic for them. It is kind of like driving. The new driver can be nearly overwhelmed with all to worry about while the seasoned driver manages lots of the task automatically if you will.
This is why I shoot manual. I want many of the necessary tasks to eventually become automatic. Without forcing myself to do this, I feel I am not learning and becoming all that I can. Yes there are disappointments, but those also become learning expericnes that I don't forget as easily as I do if I just read something. It also makes me better prepared when I walk into one of those situations mentioned above where the camera needs a little help in those other modes. |
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05/06/2008 09:59:15 AM · #36 |
true. true.
Originally posted by CEJ:
Hey - Five Rivers is in Delmar... :)
I wish they maintained the pond areas like they used to. Was a much nicer place a few years ago. |
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05/06/2008 10:41:19 AM · #37 |
| I mainly use manual mode when I'm using the onboard flash. The sync speed on my D50 is 1/500 so I set the aperature where I want it and set the shutter to the sync speed. |
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05/06/2008 10:55:14 AM · #38 |
manual is key in high contrast situations. Like for example outdoor with a bright sky (even bright cloudy sky).
DSLR have a limited dynamic range. Meaning in high contrast situations, some areas will be 'burnt' (all white) and some black, with no detail or lot of noise, in the shadows. You need to be precise in your metering to maximize that or to be sure that at least you have the details you want. The on board metering can be fooled easily - simply because you're the photographer and only you know what is important in the photo you're taking.
Also as others said, M is the way to go for flash and also to make those setting a reflex. After a while (i'm not there yet), you just meter from experience. |
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05/06/2008 11:34:36 AM · #39 |
P for Professional, A for Amateur...
M for... Master? No, too flattering. Monkey? |
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05/06/2008 12:20:41 PM · #40 |
Most of the time I have no idea what I'm going to encounter and what, consequently, I'm going to point a lens at. All I know is that want to be ready. ISO is the first thing to determine and to set. My standard (anything-goes) mode is TV (shutter speed priority) to, at least match the lens and to be able to stop action of an anticipated moving object or creature. I like to get up early and often shoot in foggy conditions or under overcast skies. In this case, say with a 200mm lens mounted on a 2x, mode and settings are likely to be: ISO 200-400, TV, 1/600, which would have the lens fairly open, certainly no less than f/5.6. If I encounter eagles, planes or people, I should be fine or close, anyway. Stationary objects, landscapes etc., under consistent light, don't concern me much at this point. I can take my time to switch modes (I'd likely choose manual) and adjust my settings to suit such shots. But I don't want to miss a shot, I cannot easily anticipate. This is why the right shutter speed is critical for anything that flies in the moment.
I am uncomfortable with AV (aperture priority). It's a bit of a personal quirk, but I've never used it much and prefer to set aperture(s) in manual mode.
I've only ever used the Program mode when I just couldn't get something right but needed the shot now, slam-bang, for some mundane purpose.
There was some talk of creative exposures here, versus a correct (algorithmically set) exposure. This interests me a quite a bit, of course, and is the reason I spot-meter nearly all of my pre-meditated shots and, lately, even some action. I can't say how true this would be for everyone, but I've become so reliant on this method of reading a scene via a single point or area in it that I find it difficult now to accept any averaging of varying values. It's, to me, after years of use, the most organic (and manual) way to pick out the one light-critical point in a potential image and have it determine what exposure is right for that particular shot -a method, however, which, for most people, is only practical, if there's sufficient time to make an image (instead of getting a shot that's gone a second later).
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05/06/2008 12:54:53 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by mouten:
manual is key in high contrast situations. Like for example outdoor with a bright sky (even bright cloudy sky).
DSLR have a limited dynamic range. Meaning in high contrast situations, some areas will be 'burnt' (all white) and some black, with no detail or lot of noise, in the shadows. You need to be precise in your metering to maximize that or to be sure that at least you have the details you want. The on board metering can be fooled easily - simply because you're the photographer and only you know what is important in the photo you're taking.
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Others have essentially said the same, but I still don't follow the reasoning. I tend to use aperture priority with shutter speed for some wildlife shots and only use full manual when using flash; I use a mixture of different metering modes to determine what the camera's in-built meter evaluates, and use the exposure compensation dial when experience dictates that the meter is likely to get things 'wrong'. How does this differ to using full manual? |
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05/06/2008 12:57:23 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
To address your example, let's say you are in Av mode. You set your aperture and the speed is automatically set. What if you don't want this speed? What if the subject is moving slowly and you want to emphasize this movement. You'll need to adjust the speed manually (while maintaining the DOF--keeping your aperture size). |
Thats what Exposure Compensation is for. Or you could use ISO adjustments to influence the shutter speed. |
In my original reply, you'll read why I don't like to use Exposure Compensation, per se. Here's what I wrote:
Another handy feature of Manual mode is that I don't have to worry about where the exposure compensation button is and how to set it. If you shoot in Manual mode, it's all natural, just turn the dials with either your thumb or your index finger (on Canon hardware) to over or under expose the image as you see fit.
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05/06/2008 01:05:18 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
To address your example, let's say you are in Av mode. You set your aperture and the speed is automatically set. What if you don't want this speed? What if the subject is moving slowly and you want to emphasize this movement. You'll need to adjust the speed manually (while maintaining the DOF--keeping your aperture size). |
Thats what Exposure Compensation is for. Or you could use ISO adjustments to influence the shutter speed. |
In my original reply, you'll read why I don't like to use Exposure Compensation, per se. Here's what I wrote:
Another handy feature of Manual mode is that I don't have to worry about where the exposure compensation button is and how to set it. If you shoot in Manual mode, it's all natural, just turn the dials with either your thumb or your index finger (on Canon hardware) to over or under expose the image as you see fit. |
I guess I don't get your reply, since on the Canon (at least the XXD series, but perhaps not the Rebel line) the exposure compensation is accomplished with those same dials. In AP mode, the index finger controls the aperture and the thumb wheel controls the exposure compensation.
Of course, if you want to over- or underexpose more than two stops, then I can see the reason and need to swap into Manual mode. But for my style of shooting at least, this is a pretty rare occasion.
Message edited by author 2008-05-06 13:07:08. |
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05/06/2008 01:16:13 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by shutterpuppy:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
To address your example, let's say you are in Av mode. You set your aperture and the speed is automatically set. What if you don't want this speed? What if the subject is moving slowly and you want to emphasize this movement. You'll need to adjust the speed manually (while maintaining the DOF--keeping your aperture size). |
Thats what Exposure Compensation is for. Or you could use ISO adjustments to influence the shutter speed. |
In my original reply, you'll read why I don't like to use Exposure Compensation, per se. Here's what I wrote:
Another handy feature of Manual mode is that I don't have to worry about where the exposure compensation button is and how to set it. If you shoot in Manual mode, it's all natural, just turn the dials with either your thumb or your index finger (on Canon hardware) to over or under expose the image as you see fit. |
I guess I don't get your reply, since on the Canon (at least the XXD series, but perhaps not the Rebel line) the exposure compensation is accomplished with those same dials. In AP mode, the index finger controls the aperture and the thumb wheel controls the exposure compensation.
Of course, if you want to over- or underexpose more than two stops, then I can see the reason and need to swap into Manual mode. But for my style of shooting at least, this is a pretty rare occasion. |
Its kinda funny to debate this now that I think of it.
In aperture mode you set the aperture, the camera sets the shutter speed. However, using EV will effectively change the shutter speed to what you want.
In manual mode you set the aperture and then set the shutter speed to what you want.
The end result? You have set both aperture and shutter speed. Just in different ways.
Message edited by author 2008-05-06 13:20:21.
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05/06/2008 01:46:53 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Originally posted by Delta_6:
It's more of a button than a stick, but the 40D doesnt have the 4 button joypad. |
Thanks....I looked it up and see what you mean now.
Looks good. |
Yes, it's very good. It's actually called the "Multi-Selector". It is a free-moving controller used just as a joystick would be used. It has functions in nine separate movements, push it up, down, left, right, any of the four 45-degree angles, and you can push it straight in. (see image below)
When choosing a focus point, simply move this "joystick" around to whichever focus point you want. Pushing it straight in quickly jumps to and selects the center AF point (as will moving the joystick to the center point).
I also use this joystick to scroll around the LCD screen menus, as well as scrolling around a zoomed-in image displayed in the LCD. It's mouse-like in this mode.
Anyway, I digressed. The whole joystick subject came about because I shoot mostly in manual mode, which includes manually setting the focus points using this "stick".
(the Multi-Selector [aka: Joystick] is just above the big circular dial, the "Quick Control Dial")
(image courtesy of DPReview)
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05/06/2008 01:59:29 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by shutterpuppy:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
To address your example, let's say you are in Av mode. You set your aperture and the speed is automatically set. What if you don't want this speed? What if the subject is moving slowly and you want to emphasize this movement. You'll need to adjust the speed manually (while maintaining the DOF--keeping your aperture size). |
Thats what Exposure Compensation is for. Or you could use ISO adjustments to influence the shutter speed. |
In my original reply, you'll read why I don't like to use Exposure Compensation, per se. Here's what I wrote:
Another handy feature of Manual mode is that I don't have to worry about where the exposure compensation button is and how to set it. If you shoot in Manual mode, it's all natural, just turn the dials with either your thumb or your index finger (on Canon hardware) to over or under expose the image as you see fit. |
I guess I don't get your reply, since on the Canon (at least the XXD series, but perhaps not the Rebel line) the exposure compensation is accomplished with those same dials. In AP mode, the index finger controls the aperture and the thumb wheel controls the exposure compensation.
Of course, if you want to over- or underexpose more than two stops, then I can see the reason and need to swap into Manual mode. But for my style of shooting at least, this is a pretty rare occasion. |
I'm not familiar with the Rebel models, but on the 40D while in Manual mode, the index finger dial (top dial) controls the shutter speed and the Quick Control Dial (rear dial) controls the aperture. I don't have to be concerned about if I have turned the power switch to the "extended on" position or not because I'm always in "extended on" mode (you have to, in order to take advantage of Manual mode).
There are many ways to acheive the same thing with these cameras. It's all personal preference--that's what makes them so popular and easy to use.
Cheers!
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05/06/2008 02:09:58 PM · #47 |
I typically always use Manual mode unless i'm shooting something that requires panning like at an air show. I find manual produces better results for some reason...maybe it's the contrast that was discussed below. I found it to hard when your trying to move around the sky and turn the knob at the same time to keep the metering correct. For the most part i have found that the Xti metering is right on. Not sure why but it seems going to manual had made my overall photography come out better than when i let the camera pick and choose settings for me. I would definitely recommend it for anyone just to see if they can point out a difference.
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