What does it take to be creative?

04/29/2008 10:08:37 AM · #76

Originally posted by pawdrix:

There are many days that I'll go out to shoot and only take one or two shots and sometimes no shots at all. I'm not a big fan of forcing things. Once in a while I have nothing to say or that nothing is speaking to me and I guess that's ok. There are always other days.

I think there's a difference between forcing things and practice. I don't know that you get to be a great pianist by only playing when you feel like it. I'm not certain great novels ever get written only when the mood strikes. I doubt virtuoso sporting achievements happen without some practice or repetition when the muse isn't around. Most great painters worked on volumes of wasted canvases while trying to grope towards the real achievements.

I don't see photography and seeing as special or avoiding the need for practice and experience and 'doing scales'. I think being creative requires hard work. My favourite quote that captures that is the Arnold Newmann '1% inspiration, 99% moving furniture' quote. It is easy to see this process time and again in the contact sheets of all those held up as 'masters of photography'. 99% of what they shot was crap. 99% of what I shoot is crap. But if you don't shoot it, the 1% isn't ever going to appear.

Mostly though I think it is often about giving yourself permission to try things. Not finding all the reasons to not do it, but just try it and see. Switch off that inner voice or critic that tells you things can't be done or that they never work, when you are out taking pictures. Leave that level of editing for later when you have the results. So shoot under the mid day sun. Have too slow a shutter speed. Find some of those things that make you always think 'this never works' and try it again and try to make it work. Trying to stop saying 'no' so much and trying to find a way to say 'yes' more often. I've found that leads to my more creative periods.

Or not. But we expend so much time and effort explaining why things can't happen or wont work or shouldn't be done that that can get in the way of just doing it and seeing what is there, not what you've decided isn't there. That little voice in the head that says 'I'm not feeling it today' or 'there's nothing worth shooting here' rather than 'lets just try it and see' or 'what interests me here' and follow those threads and see where they lead. Every time I go out and shoot there's nothing worth shooting and I'm usually not feeling it. Some days that lasts for hours but it never goes away when I don't start. Other days I have to fire off a burst of 10 frames, just to get over that feeling that I can't take a picture because it won't be good enough. Certainly if I only ever take one frame, that's as good as it is going to get.

A big part of being creative is being productive. You have to take pictures to take pictures.

Message edited by author 2008-04-29 10:24:32.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/29/2008 11:11:31 AM · #77

Originally posted by Trinch:

As far as books, I am still waiting for the good, better, best book. In essence, three photographers. One a green amateur with little to no knowledge of the matter, the second an advanced amateur who knows the concepts but is still trying to put them together, and the third a seasoned professional. Each photographer is asked to photograph a particular scene and the book explains the differences between the three experiences. (Anyone interested in writing a book?)

I think that's an interesting idea. One thing that I enjoy a lot now is meeting up and shooting with other photographers at all skill levels. Workshops, flickr groups, whatever sort of thing and seeing the results when we all go and shoot in the same area with similar subject matter. The difference in end results and breadth of things that were found in the same area is always inspiring.

Time and again you hear people saying 'wow, I never saw that!'

I never really found Peterson's books particularly helpful from the point of view of creativity. They teach design concepts which are great, but they really don't explore creativity or being creative. Freeman Patterson's books were much better in that regard e.g., 'Photography & the art of seeing'

Message edited by author 2008-04-29 11:14:02.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

04/29/2008 11:34:02 AM · #78

Originally posted by Gordon:

[quote=pawdrix]...A big part of being creative is being productive. You have to take pictures to take pictures.

That's one way out. Focusing on productivity as a therapy is certainly more than practicing a positive attitude without anything else to help build one solid enough to carry us through. Negative Capability is even better, because it eliminates the need to fake an attitude before it can be adopted, which, IMO, is the reason why so much talk about positive attitude is more hype than it is worth.

If we have negative capability, we take pictures because we have nothing better to do (to amend your phrase to suit my sense).

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

04/29/2008 11:35:00 AM · #79

I think we all do things differently and take shots for different reasons. When knowing who's doing what and why then we might be able to give helpful advice.

It's difficult to define any of this for anyone and say "do this" or "practice that". I don't practice but I do need to be in rhyhm and at one point I did need to practice so I was ready or quick enough to capture a fleeting moment. I'm certainly better today than I was in 2005. I could experiment with things but to practice being creative doesn't ring for me. I don't know if the music analogy works here. Learning how to operate a piano or a guitar tie into creativity but being technically proficient or technically amazing does't mean that you have a single creative bone in your body. The world is flooded with guitarists that can run up and down the scales and a million miles an hour but have no style whatsoever.

From my experience, any regimen you set up might work for some people and be a complete waste of time for another group. There may be some paralells in the process and universal truths but to nail down in any way, how a creative mind works or how to become creative is too vast to do anyone justice.

Some things mentioned in this thread I can relate to and some things I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, knowing how I think and operate. I'm not saying anyones wrong but I do know that a few thing suggested would be a waste of my time. Still, having said that...it's all good.

Message edited by author 2008-04-29 11:51:28.

04/29/2008 11:42:42 AM · #80

Originally posted by pawdrix:

It's difficult to define any of this for anyone and say "do this" or "practice that". I don't practice but I do need to be in rhyhm and at one point I did need to practice so I was ready or quick enough to capture a fleeting moment. I'm certainly better today than I was in 2005.

I think it is a brave thing to be able to say 'I'm done with needing to practice' or being certain what is or isn't a waste of time without trying it.

Most of the time I'm just too afraid to try things.

Message edited by author 2008-04-29 11:43:07.

04/29/2008 11:42:43 AM · #81

So who wants to get out and shoot with me?

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

04/29/2008 11:45:56 AM · #82

I'll go out and shoot with you. We might be in different parts of the country, but tell you what, you pick a subject and we can go out and shoot it and see what we come up with .

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

04/29/2008 11:46:58 AM · #83

Originally posted by zeuszen:

I don't think there is any need to fake any sort of positive attitude. It isn't about having a positive attitude or a negative capability (which while superficially might sound like opposites, don't seem to have much to do with each other on further reading)

Getting on with it or being productive seems largely similar to the concept of Negative Capability - accepting things are what they are and that you can't control everything. The bit you can control is if you decide not to take pictures or not. You can't explore your receptive intuition if your first idea is 'there isn't a picture worth taking here' and then you stop.

Louis

Nikon D800

04/29/2008 11:53:29 AM · #84

Originally posted by timfythetoo:

I know I don't try enough. My normal excuse is that I don't have the time or the opportunity to try more. The pure setup shots I have been doing less and less of.

This seems to suggest though that set up shots are less creative than others, or automatically come with less meaning. I'm not so sure. These pictures mean much to me, and they're all set up.

[thumb]496084[/thumb] [thumb]618670[/thumb] [thumb]601746[/thumb]

Message edited by author 2008-04-29 11:53:58.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

04/29/2008 11:55:35 AM · #85

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by pawdrix:
It's difficult to define any of this for anyone and say "do this" or "practice that". I don't practice but I do need to be in rhyhm and at one point I did need to practice so I was ready or quick enough to capture a fleeting moment. I'm certainly better today than I was in 2005.

I think it is a brave thing to be able to say 'I'm done with needing to practice' or being certain what is or isn't a waste of time without trying it.

Most of the time I'm just too afraid to try things.

I need to practice more food photography so I will be more comfortable shooting a wider variety of products and in various lighting situations efficiently.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/29/2008 12:11:16 PM · #86

Originally posted by Gordon:

...The bit you can control is if you decide not to take pictures or not. You can't explore your receptive intuition if your first idea is 'there isn't a picture worth taking here' and then you stop.

I think your first idea can and should be immediately followed by a second one. The second one could be questioning the first. It's about learning to live with doubt and uncertainty. It's about inviting doubt and uncertainty into the process, so our ideals will have some reality, and we can walk on feet rather than fall through a cloud. It's a credible and natural process we want to develop and enter into. Production, well, let's just say it can get in the way.

04/29/2008 12:14:22 PM · #87

Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by Gordon:
...The bit you can control is if you decide not to take pictures or not. You can't explore your receptive intuition if your first idea is 'there isn't a picture worth taking here' and then you stop.

I think your first idea can and should be immediately followed by a second one. The second one could be questioning the first. It's about learning to live with doubt and uncertainty. It's about inviting doubt and uncertainty into the process, so our ideals will have some reality, and we can walk on feet rather than fall through a cloud. It's a credible and natural process we want to develop and enter into. Production, well, let's just say it can get in the way.

I think production is something vastly different from being productive. I can see now why you might be taking exception to that term.
All I am meaning by the term 'being productive' is getting on with it. not stopping at that first idea. Living with the doubt and uncertainty long enough to see what happens. Most people seem too afraid and come up with lots of reasons why they stopped early to justify or rationalise that fear.

Not good enough. Nothing interesting. Nobody would want to see it. I already know it wont work. Done before. Boring.

Get over yourself and just get on with it.

04/29/2008 12:16:18 PM · #88

Originally posted by JulietNN:

I'll go out and shoot with you. We might be in different parts of the country, but tell you what, you pick a subject and we can go out and shoot it and see what we come up with .

it would've been nice to go physically together and shoot, but since it is not possible...
What should we shoot?

04/29/2008 12:17:23 PM · #89

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by pawdrix:
It's difficult to define any of this for anyone and say "do this" or "practice that". I don't practice but I do need to be in rhyhm and at one point I did need to practice so I was ready or quick enough to capture a fleeting moment. I'm certainly better today than I was in 2005.

I think it is a brave thing to be able to say 'I'm done with needing to practice' or being certain what is or isn't a waste of time without trying it.

Most of the time I'm just too afraid to try things.

I need to practice more food photography so I will be more comfortable shooting a wider variety of products and in various lighting situations efficiently.

I want to shoot food too. I am actually going to shoot fish dish tonight.

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

04/29/2008 12:19:23 PM · #90

You decide, just pick something that you know you will come across today, then shoot it, then if you like we could both leave it 'as is' and then have a before and after shot. we could compare notes and see what each other would have done differently, then the same again in the post proccessing.

M, looking at the 2 shots that you have had for challenges, you have talent and you are creative.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/29/2008 12:41:15 PM · #91

Originally posted by Gordon:

...I think production is something vastly different from being productive. I can see now why you might be taking exception to that term.
All I am meaning by the term 'being productive' is getting on with it. not stopping at that first idea. Living with the doubt and uncertainty long enough to see what happens. Most people seem too afraid and come up with lots of reasons why they stopped early to justify or rationalise that fear.

Not good enough. Nothing interesting. Nobody would want to see it. I already know it wont work. Done before. Boring.

Get over yourself and just get on with it.

Same page.

timfythetoo

Apple iPhone 16 Pro Max

04/29/2008 12:41:56 PM · #92

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by timfythetoo:
I know I don't try enough. My normal excuse is that I don't have the time or the opportunity to try more. The pure setup shots I have been doing less and less of.

This seems to suggest though that set up shots are less creative than others, or automatically come with less meaning. I'm not so sure. These pictures mean much to me, and they're all set up.

[thumb]496084[/thumb] [thumb]618670[/thumb] [thumb]601746[/thumb]

These are the setup shots that I refer to within my own portfolio -

I guess overall these may be somewhat creative, but they really hold no meaning to me.

These are also setup shots but these hold plenty of meaning to me. I believe that the introduction of the model and capturing an emotion or interaction bring them beyond just the normal setup.

I desire to shoot more of these images rather than the previous mentioned.

But I would also like to start seeing more like you do Louis, and those of the likes of

Pawdrix,

Nixter,

goodman and others who are able to capture the everyday within the realm of everyday life and make it look way more than that.

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

04/29/2008 12:58:25 PM · #93

Originally posted by JulietNN:

sounds good, but I don't know what to shoot, you pick

tnun

Ricoh GR III

04/29/2008 12:59:57 PM · #94

maggieddd, you have certainly "created" a great thread. Have fun with

JulietNN - how not? You might also consider a side challenge, if one comes up that interests you or start one yourself. (I only began to feel comfortable here when I joined one: you get lots of feedback, and are way more likely to get affirmation on something that is peculiarly your own as well as good suggestions, not to mention looking more closely at other work and getting to know other people's style. Maybe not exactly about creativity per whatever se that is).

Gordon is right about the plunging in and just shooting and shooting, because you have to start... But

pawdrix's take is all about refining what your shooting and shooting has helped to show you in order to show you why you started shooting and shooting in the first place. All this to say that there are some days I take photos when I shouldn't, when I don't have the rhythm(pawdrix), when I myself am not focused.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

04/29/2008 01:02:21 PM · #95

Originally posted by timfythetoo:

But I would also like to start seeing more like you do Louis, and those of the likes of Pawdrix, Nixter, goodman and others who are able to capture the everyday within the realm of everyday life and make it look way more than that.

BTW I don't think anyone here can teach me to think creatively as you do...or kiwiness, aimethetoo or yanko whoever.

When I see a Challenge theme...I'm totally blank. Nothing there. I have a few "hack" ideas every now and then but never anything terribly clever.

I'm certain that I could do derivative things with a twist and a turn...perhas make them kinda my own BUT I do always lack the means of production. For example, I haven't encountered a single person under the age of 19 in about three weeks. ;)

Message edited by author 2008-04-29 14:53:52.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

04/29/2008 01:10:43 PM · #96

Originally posted by pawdrix:

BTW I don't think anyone here can teach me to think creatively as you do...or kiwiness or yanko or whomever. When I see a Challenge theme...I'm totally blank. Nothing there.

I can really relate to this. Challenges truly leave me scratching my head, and I apparently have no means to execute their theme into any kind of original photograph. Probably why I've stopped entering them completely. I'm clueless. Not that I think I'm creatively handicapped, or that I'm a crap photographer, but it seems that the restraint of the challenge theme leaves me atrophied beyond all hope. I think this is just a variation of Gordon's observation that many people seem to stop before even trying, that the game is up due to a glut of excuses, though I'm much better at simply taking pictures of stuff that's personally interesting, even if it's meaningless to most everyone else. To wit:

[thumb]669209[/thumb]

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

04/29/2008 02:53:17 PM · #97

A Flower,

04/29/2008 02:58:52 PM · #98

Originally posted by JulietNN:

A Flower,

deal, I will post something tomorrow