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04/28/2008 05:44:07 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
That's what I was alluding to when I asked whether the OP was interested in creating shots. Some of us may be on the wrong angle with our suggestions. |
I think though even if you are building from scratch or trying to find shots out on the street, the same basic tools and creative approaches apply. The building blocks are all the same. |
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04/28/2008 05:44:57 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
This is why I always tell people that they'll learn far more by making comments on other people's photos than from the comments they receive on their own images. To write a good -- dare I say -- analytical comment requires one to study the photo and figure out what "works" and what doesn't, both technically and emotionally. The more one does this, the easier it becomes to apply the same analysis to a prospective scene before taking a shot yourself. |
My own reason for my commenting efforts. I have learned more about what works and what doesn't by making myself analyze all the 5's than from anything else. |
that's one thing I have a hard time doing, commenting on the images. I can say that I either like it or not. I can't comment more beyond that |
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04/28/2008 05:46:06 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by maggieddd:
I can't even find anything interesting to photograph at my house. I am sure someone creative could find lots of interesting things but I just can't. What do you guys think? Can a person learn to be creative? |
I don't know that you can learn to be creative, but you can learn how to explore your own creativity. I hope that second part is true as I'm writing a book on just that subject. Most of my favourite ways of inspiring creativity is through the use of constraints. Often painful, frustrating, annoying constraints. I find that when I'm offered an infinite variety of choice, I can't find anything creative. Too many choices. Constraints make me focus down and try to rebel within those limitations and then I find myself being creative.
Here's something to try. You'll need an hour or two of free time, preferably during the day, so you have some natural light to play with. Lock (mentally or actually) yourself in a room, with your camera and one or two lenses (one is better than two - more of those constraints) and a tripod. A bathroom is usually a good option if there is a window or two.
Take 100 pictures.
Don't leave until you've done it. Give yourself permission to try new things. Wave the camera around. Slow down the shutter speed. Set up a tripod and explore macro aspects. Play with light coming through bottles. Shoot self portraits of yourself to capture how frustrated you are with this stupid assignment. Whatever it takes, but don't leave that room until you've taken 100 pictures. You don't have to show them to anyone, but give it your best effort to make good pictures. Look at the lines. Look at the light. Look at the shapes and forms. Sit there and slow down and look.
You'll probably find that the first dozen or 20 shots are really easy. Then you'll find that you hate me. And you'll probably hate the assignment. The next 20 or 30 will be a frustrating, painful rebellious time, probably swearing about this stupid exercise, wanting to quit, thinking there's nothing interesting to photograph and generally thinking this is dumb and there are better ways to spend your time. Somewhere along the way, you'll just accept what's going on, become resigned to it and start really looking again. Often then something quite marvelous can happen. |
I will probably end up cleaning the bathroom instead :)
Great exercise, I'll try it on the weekend |
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04/28/2008 05:58:30 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
That's what I was alluding to when I asked whether the OP was interested in creating shots. Some of us may be on the wrong angle with our suggestions. |
I think though even if you are building from scratch or trying to find shots out on the street, the same basic tools and creative approaches apply. The building blocks are all the same. |
You might be right but I think there's a difference between the process(s) or creative force of DeSousa...timfythetoo to Winogrand or Frank.
For example, I'm 100% certain that I don't think like the guys/gals that put shots together like scalvert or kiwiness. A good deal of their creative work is way before the camera enters into things and then the cameras job is mostly to record what happened on the front end of the process. Mentally I think we're worlds apart. I just point at things and hope that there's something people haven't seen a million times before...
[thumb]672276[/thumb]
I'm certain there are parallels but I do think it's hard to slice up and teach. When I teach cooking I try to break things down in hundreds of different ways but some people simply can't latch on. Their main problem is all the crap inside of their heads that has embedded an "I can't do that" atittude. When I can get them past that...which is almost impossible, then things might start to happen. That issue is prevalent in many people and if it's not addressed the rest is a waste of time. You see it here at DPC all over the place. It's that..."I always take crap" way of thinking.
Message edited by author 2008-04-28 18:16:29. |
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04/28/2008 06:18:45 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
That issue is prevalent in many people and if it's not addressed the rest is a waste of time. You see it here at DPC all over the place. It's that..."I always take crap" way of thinking. |
Yup, along with the 'I have to be somewhere special' to take a picture way of thinking. It is all about pre-judging things, rather than looking. Or letting that inner critic get involved, before you even try something.
I have to be in Iceland. I need to be on Canon beach. There's nothing interesting here. I have to be somewhere else. Something magical has to happen before I can do anything. That'll never work, I don't shoot that way. I always take crap. I always have to do . I can't do . There's nothing interesting here because I've already seen it all before.
Message edited by author 2008-04-28 18:22:16. |
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04/28/2008 06:24:53 PM · #56 |
There are lots of books to read and advice to follow on being creative... usually they clog my head more than they help...
There is one very simple technique from Freeman Patterson than I think is easy and can really help. If you see a scene that grabs your attention try to explain why in one sentence and then photograph what you said. (I cannot remember his exact words) The example he gave was a spiderweb in the morning sun and the sentence was something like "The dew on the web looks like sparkling jewels". He then found a perspective that made the dew drops sparkle in the morning sun like jewels on a string.
Creativity isn't always about creating something from nothing, in many cases it's about filtering out all the noise so you can bring the focus in on the amazing things that already exist but go unnoticed.
Hope this helps a little...
Message edited by author 2008-04-28 18:26:11.
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04/28/2008 06:40:34 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'm also curious whether you want to create images or capture them? There's a big difference between the two. |
You know pawdrix, I'd like to be able to do both. All my photography so far has been travel photography, pretty much capturing images, and I think I do OK. Lately I tried crating images and that's what is not working out for me. |
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04/28/2008 06:48:46 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
That issue is prevalent in many people and if it's not addressed the rest is a waste of time. You see it here at DPC all over the place. It's that..."I always take crap" way of thinking. |
Yup, along with the 'I have to be somewhere special' to take a picture way of thinking. It is all about pre-judging things, rather than looking. Or letting that inner critic get involved, before you even try something.
I have to be in Iceland. I need to be on Canon beach. There's nothing interesting here. I have to be somewhere else. Something magical has to happen before I can do anything. That'll never work, I don't shoot that way. I always take crap. I always have to do . I can't do . There's nothing interesting here because I've already seen it all before. |
The destination thing is what I fight the most...... I became aware of it a long while back - and for some reason it's still a fight. I have lived in some cool places and never bothered too much with photg in the local areas, but now I live far (far far - believe me here :-)) away from those places and I can think of umpteen dozen shots in my head - many would have been on the walk to work. I now live in a cool US city but still fight to find subjects of interest locally - when in reality I am surrounded by them.
I'm becoming too whacko-job now but the issue is in the mirror and that wanting a different time & reality :-)
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04/28/2008 06:56:52 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by robs:
The destination thing is what I fight the most...... I became aware of it a long while back - and for some reason it's still a fight. I have lived in some cool places and never bothered too much with photg in the local areas, but now I live far (far far - believe me here :-)) away from those places and I can think of umpteen dozen shots in my head - many would have been on the walk to work. I now live in a cool US city but still fight to find subjects of interest locally - when in reality I am surrounded by them. |
All I can do is sympathise :) I used to live about 15 minutes from one of the larger, mostly unspoilt and scenic areas in Europe. Never took any pictures. For a long time I felt I had to travel somewhere 'special' to be able to take pictures. I still suffer from that, even when I go somewhere special. I always feel the next great picture is around the next bend, over the next hill.
It is just the same way of seeing (or not seeing) that makes us think there is nothing interesting to photograph on the block we live on, or the street we walk to work, or the house we live in. We look around but we don't stop to see. If you can't do that at home, you can't do it in an interesting way elsewhere either. You might take the obvious pictures of what's new about the new or special place, but until you can dig under and really start to see what's there, you won't be able to really take the interesting pictures, in that special 'somewhere else' or right in front of your face right now.
I occasionally teach photography to friends. They always want to know where we are 'going to go' to take pictures. More often than not they don't like where we start and want to rush to somewhere 'better'. Every time I've tried certain exercises that aim to help them start to slow down and see, we get stuck in one unspecial location for hours, when at first there was 'nothing anyone would ever want to take pictures of' in that location.
Message edited by author 2008-04-28 18:59:03. |
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04/28/2008 07:14:24 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by robs:
The destination thing is what I fight the most...... I became aware of it a long while back - and for some reason it's still a fight. I have lived in some cool places and never bothered too much with photg in the local areas, but now I live far (far far - believe me here :-)) away from those places and I can think of umpteen dozen shots in my head - many would have been on the walk to work. I now live in a cool US city but still fight to find subjects of interest locally - when in reality I am surrounded by them. |
All I can do is sympathise :) I used to live about 15 minutes from one of the larger, mostly unspoilt and scenic areas in Europe. Never took any pictures. For a long time I felt I had to travel somewhere 'special' to be able to take pictures. I still suffer from that, even when I go somewhere special. I always feel the next great picture is around the next bend, over the next hill.
It is just the same way of seeing (or not seeing) that makes us think there is nothing interesting to photograph on the block we live on, or the street we walk to work, or the house we live in. We look around but we don't stop to see. If you can't do that at home, you can't do it in an interesting way elsewhere either. You might take the obvious pictures of what's new about the new or special place, but until you can dig under and really start to see what's there, you won't be able to really take the interesting pictures, in that special 'somewhere else' or right in front of your face right now.
I occasionally teach photography to friends. They always want to know where we are 'going to go' to take pictures. More often than not they don't like where we start and want to rush to somewhere 'better'. Every time I've tried certain exercises that aim to help them start to slow down and see, we get stuck in one unspecial location for hours, when at first there was 'nothing anyone would ever want to take pictures of' in that location. |
Could it be that we equate moving or being busy with 'working hard' so it seems that we must be moving, traveling or dashing about if we are going to work at photography? The absolute hardest thing for me to do is take my time and really see. The minute I slow down I feel like I'm missing something or not working hard enough. It's VERY hard to sit still and really see something.
Message edited by author 2008-04-28 19:14:42.
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04/28/2008 07:20:19 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'm also curious whether you want to create images or capture them? There's a big difference between the two. |
I feel pretty confident in my ability to create images. I liek to think I have a creative mind when it comes to setting something up and making it happen. I am pretty good at arranging an image and hitting the shutter to put it on my flash card.
But I so wish I had the eye to capture images. To see and capture moments in time, to catch the meaning in life and lives, to freeze slices of life happening in an artistic way. That is a challenge for me. |
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04/28/2008 07:43:13 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by maggieddd:
that's one thing I have a hard time doing, commenting on the images. I can say that I either like it or not. I can't comment more beyond that |
I think you can, if you just add the reason you like/don't like it.
Too many people seem to feel pressured (by themselves?) to suggest a way to "fix" or compensate for the "problem" they see -- forget that! You don't know anything about the conditions or photographer's intent -- it may look exactly how the photographer wants it to look.
What you (and only you) can say is "I like ___ because ..."
As a photographer I can't ask for more than your honest reaction. |
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04/28/2008 07:57:48 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by timfythetoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I'm also curious whether you want to create images or capture them? There's a big difference between the two. |
I feel pretty confident in my ability to create images. I liek to think I have a creative mind when it comes to setting something up and making it happen. I am pretty good at arranging an image and hitting the shutter to put it on my flash card.
But I so wish I had the eye to capture images. To see and capture moments in time, to catch the meaning in life and lives, to freeze slices of life happening in an artistic way. That is a challenge for me. |
Maybe that's because  aimeethetoo has the artistic flair in the family and you don't? :P
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04/28/2008 08:44:46 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I just point at things and hope that there's something people haven't seen a million times before...
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I am more impressed by someone who can shoot subjects/ideas that has been done a million times over yet still produce a one of a kind image from it, much like this gem:
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04/28/2008 08:53:09 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by timfythetoo:
I feel pretty confident in my ability to create images. I liek to think I have a creative mind when it comes to setting something up and making it happen. I am pretty good at arranging an image and hitting the shutter to put it on my flash card.
But I so wish I had the eye to capture images. To see and capture moments in time, to catch the meaning in life and lives, to freeze slices of life happening in an artistic way. That is a challenge for me. |
How often do you try ? and I mean really try, rather than try once and think 'I can't do that' and go back to creating from scratch ?
It is tougher, to let go of the ares you are confident in and work in the areas that make you uncomfortable or you aren't as good at. But that's where all the real satisfaction seems to come from too. Works both ways, too.
What you describe is largely what I feel most of the time too. It is what makes me feel empty about this shot
and wish I took more like this
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04/28/2008 08:56:41 PM · #66 |
OUCH! A little competition can always add to creativity TOO !!!
Anyway - One thing about these creative types is that they are always submitting to challenges !!!
The competition becomes fun and helps the creative drive.
Originally posted by yanko:
[quote=timfythetoo]
Maybe that's because aimeethetoo has the artistic flair in the family and you don't? :P |
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04/28/2008 09:11:34 PM · #67 |
| The balls to get beat badly in a challenge by water drops for the millionth time.. |
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04/28/2008 09:48:37 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I just point at things and hope that there's something people haven't seen a million times before...
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I am more impressed by someone who can shoot subjects/ideas that has been done a million times over yet still produce a one of a kind image from it, much like this gem:
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Funny thing....this one actually started out as a Water-Drop/Splash Shot but the little girl got right in the freakin way. |
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04/29/2008 01:39:13 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Too many people seem to feel pressured (by themselves?) to suggest a way to "fix" or compensate for the "problem" they see -- forget that! You don't know anything about the conditions or photographer's intent -- it may look exactly how the photographer wants it to look. |
GeneralE, I half agree and half disagree with that statement. While it is frustrating to get comments that your splendid soft focus portrait is out of focus, it is also helpful to get an idea of what is going through the viewers mind. If one of your intents is frequently viewed by others as a problem, it may be time to reconsider your intents.
That being said, I do make an effort to not sound authoritative in my comments. It's the not so subtle difference between, "Cropping the left hand kills the image" vs "I would have preferred to see the entire left hand." Basically, I am just sharing what would have made the photo better for me, not necessarily what would have made the photo better in general. |
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04/29/2008 06:11:06 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by timfythetoo:
I feel pretty confident in my ability to create images. I liek to think I have a creative mind when it comes to setting something up and making it happen. I am pretty good at arranging an image and hitting the shutter to put it on my flash card.
But I so wish I had the eye to capture images. To see and capture moments in time, to catch the meaning in life and lives, to freeze slices of life happening in an artistic way. That is a challenge for me. |
How often do you try ? and I mean really try, rather than try once and think 'I can't do that' and go back to creating from scratch ?
It is tougher, to let go of the ares you are confident in and work in the areas that make you uncomfortable or you aren't as good at. But that's where all the real satisfaction seems to come from too. Works both ways, too.
What you describe is largely what I feel most of the time too. It is what makes me feel empty about this shot
and wish I took more like this
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I know I don't try enough. My normal excuse is that I don't have the time or the opportunity to try more. The pure setup shots I have been doing less and less of. I shoot (and enter) more pictures of my kids than anything else (who knew) and with them I feel like I am finding a balance between setting up the shot and catching a moment. I might be more creating a situation and capturing the reaction rather than a full blown creation of the image. But I also feel no emptiness with any of those shots. My lit match, my curved forks - they do very little for me. My April FS on the other hand is already hanging as a stretched canvas on my wall. |
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04/29/2008 07:21:00 AM · #71 |
Wow! There's so much insightful stuff on this post already...
I've come to terms with the fact that much of my photography is a "happy accident," and I get the feeling that it is for others as well. I may go downtown looking to shoot buildings and wind up seeing a black swan with a nest full of eggs and one JUST hatched chick. The buildings will always be there, but the chick will be changing every minute of every day. I'm going to spend some time trying to capture that.
I was having trouble with the current sepia challenge. I've never really used sepia, so my mind was very limited on possible shots I could take. I set out on a three hour hike to get shots of a herd of free range cattle that are ALWAYS, time and time again, in the same area. Nope. Not when I set out to shoot them. But when I got home and started playing with the 300 other pictures I took that day I got some really cool results that I would have never Imagined.
My advice? Don't get pigeon holed on the "idea" of being creative. Look at things with an open mind and open eyes, and shoot everything in sight. I think you'll be surprised at what you get.
As a sidebar...This site will inspire you and break your heart all at the same time. The post by Gordon is a perfect example. There are shots that take a lot of time to set up and execute, and will consistently score well here. Other shots happen in the blink of an eye and are then gone forever. Both are creative, and both are very worth taking. As for Gordon's post, that wedding shot is amazing! |
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04/29/2008 07:23:15 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by electrolost:
The balls to get beat badly in a challenge by water drops for the millionth time.. |
Chuckle. That's all I'm gonna say. :-) |
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04/29/2008 07:37:59 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
Creativity isn't always about creating something from nothing, in many cases it's about filtering out all the noise so you can bring the focus in on the amazing things that already exist but go unnoticed.
Hope this helps a little... |
Sorry to keep commenting, but this is possibly the best slice of advice I've read thus far. It's how I used to respond to people who asked me about the pictures all over my desk, though I did it much less eloquently. They would ask me where I went to take a particular shot, and almost without fail, it was right around the corner. they had just never divided up a scene into the right pieces.
I'm stealing this, by the way. :-) |
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04/29/2008 08:32:15 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Mentally I think we're worlds apart. I just point at things and hope that there's something people haven't seen a million times before... |
I've been thinking a bit about this over night. A couple of things I suppose. Firstly the 'lock yourself in a bathroom' assignment isn't necessarily a 'go and create pictures' assignment. I think when I've done that in the past, almost all of the images were 'found'. Others that have done it created every shot from scratch. It isn't about one or the other, it is about taking the time to really look. What you describe yesterday is the same process - 'hoping that there's something that people haven't seen a million times before' that could be a green pepper, shot at just the right angle and given just the right amount of importance that people really look at it. It could be someone caught jumping over a puddle at just the right time. It might be someone suspended upside down on a trampoline, or it might be Salvador Dali in mid leap, with water and cats being thrown around.
What makes them special is showing something that people don't normally see, even if it is around them every day. That I think is the special gift that photography has - the ability to capture a moment and elevate it to the level of something worth spending more time to look at. If you set it up or if it happened to be there and you saw it seems like a secondary effect, not the main difference. The ability to see is the main thing to exercise to become a good photographer. |
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04/29/2008 10:00:04 AM · #75 |
âOne might compare the art of photography to the act of pointing,â Mr. Szarkowski wrote. âIt must be true that some of us point to more interesting facts, events, circumstances, and configurations than others.â
I think I mentioned John Szarkowski earlier somewhere but that statement he made about "pointing" at "more interesting" things is a sort of mantra that runs in my head when I choose a shot...or more importantly when I don't take a shot.
There are many days that I'll go out to shoot and only take one or two shots and sometimes no shots at all. I'm not a big fan of forcing things. Once in a while I have nothing to say or that nothing is speaking to me and I guess that's ok. There are always other days.
Message edited by author 2008-04-29 10:54:00. |
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