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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Outakes Poll - where do you stand?
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Showing posts 76 - 99 of 99, (reverse)
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 02/28/2008 09:07:23 AM · #76
Desertoddity, I see you've signed up for the March 'macro' side challenge. What happens if during the next month there is a DPC Macro challenge? Are we not allowed to post pictures to that thread for the week of voting? How about the week of submitting?
 02/28/2008 09:15:27 AM · #77
Originally posted by ZeppKash:
Desertoddity, I see you've signed up for the March 'macro' side challenge. What happens if during the next month there is a DPC Macro challenge? Are we not allowed to post pictures to that thread for the week of voting? How about the week of submitting?


are you asking me? i'm thoroughly confused now. but according to the rule, then i guess we're not allowed to post photos to that thread during voting. if i entered it, i certainly wouldn't post anything that i took of my challenge entry.
 02/28/2008 09:24:07 AM · #78
Originally posted by desertoddity:
if i entered it, i certainly wouldn't post anything that i took of my challenge entry.

That wouldn't have been allowed even before the outtake rule. The current policy was added to prevent people from posting topic-related photos that don't give away their entry.
 02/28/2008 09:25:34 AM · #79
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by desertoddity:
i always perceived the outtakes threads as being outtakes from the 'challenge' entrants...serious attempts that were considered as a challenge entry.

Someone who either missed the deadline or decided at the last minute not to enter still made a serious attempt at a challenge entry. Likewise, someone who entered a completely different concept/scene from their outtake. What's the difference between those and a challenge-related shot taken outside the dates or by someone with no plans to enter?


i see your point and agree. i don't really have a problem with it as long as they didn't enter for whatever reason. if they did enter, it should not be similar. i didn't vote for the last option in the poll because it just seemed like it was cause a lot of problems to 'police' the photos that did also enter the challenge to decide if they were disimilar enough from the entry.

Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by desertoddity:
Originally posted by oscarthepig:
I'd also like to know why it's such a big deal on a site that only awards virtual ribbons. I mean, who really cares?

maybe the people who get them? lol

I hate the outtake rule, but GeneralE strongly backs it. It's more likely that the opposite is true since ribbons already come with plenty of comments and high votes.


that wasn't really a serious response from me.
 02/28/2008 09:26:46 AM · #80
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by desertoddity:
if i entered it, i certainly wouldn't post anything that i took of my challenge entry.

That wouldn't have been allowed even before the outtake rule. The current policy was added to prevent people from posting topic-related photos that don't give away their entry.


then i don't understand the policy. if i can change my poll vote to the last option, i will

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 09:27:10.
 02/28/2008 09:35:27 AM · #81
Originally posted by desertoddity:
if i can change my poll vote to the last option, i will


One down, 497 to go. :)

GeneralE, If a DPC topic comes up that is similar to an ongoing monthly side challenge, you believe that posting further to the side challenge should locked?

02/28/2008 09:35:36 AM · #82
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Here's an idea - why not dilute the site down to nothing as a result of constant forum complaints?

When I started here, you could post a photo and ask for opinions any time you wanted. The SC removed any that compromised anonymity or looked like someone's entry, but otherwise you were free to (*gasp*) discuss photos on a photography site. I thought it worked pretty well, but people complained that it siphoned off comments, brought down their scores and/or swayed the voters in some way, so a policy was put in place to ban outtakes during voting. Incredibly, there was no surge in comments and people still complained about their scores and swaying voters. The only significant effect I see is a lot more forum threads about personal issues, politics, etc. and less photos to look at. :-/


Amazing, you mean that the entered images suddenly didn't inspire more interesting discussion, just because there weren't any other photos to talk about ?
Wow. You'd think then that the pictures themselves had some intrinsic level of interest or not, rather than everyone just having 5 comments they make each week. Who'd have thunk it ?
 02/28/2008 09:37:20 AM · #83
Originally posted by desertoddity:
Originally posted by scalvert:
That wouldn't have been allowed even before the outtake rule. The current policy was added to prevent people from posting topic-related photos that don't give away their entry.


then i don't understand the policy.

Methinks you have lots of company.
 02/28/2008 09:40:00 AM · #84
Originally posted by ZeppKash:
If a DPC topic comes up that is similar to an ongoing monthly side challenge, you believe that posting further to the side challenge should locked?

Haha... it'd be funny if there were ongoing portrait, landscape, macro, color and B&W side-challenges every week. ;-P
 02/28/2008 09:42:38 AM · #85
Originally posted by scalvert:
That wouldn't have been allowed even before the outtake rule. The current policy was added to prevent people from posting topic-related photos that don't give away their entry.

What about people who put photos into their portfolio that give away their entry? I've seen this several times recently. They may not post it in the forums as an outtake, but the photos can be seen by browsing the Recently Uploaded section.
02/28/2008 09:45:33 AM · #86
Originally posted by citymars:
What about people who put photos into their portfolio that give away their entry? I've seen this several times recently.

If reported, we ask them to move such shots to their Workshop or wait until the challenge voting is over to post them. A better question is, "What happens if someone repeatedly enters the same model/scene/idea?" We can't very well hide those even though they could be considered outtakes and obviously break anonymity.

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 09:51:26.
 02/28/2008 09:53:13 AM · #87
Outtakes by themselves (in a thread, etc...) IMO aren't bad as long as people adhere to maintaining anonymity (not giving away their challenge entry). Where outtakes start crossing the line (again IMO) is when discussion starts entering stating things like "there's too many of those in the challenge already", " is too easy, would've scored low", "YES! That would be the winner of this challenge IMO" - while the challenge is currently in voting.

On a related note, I think threads like this one (and they're not uncommon - just rotate the weekly subject) do more harm than good in attempting to influence the outcome of a challenge midstream (during voting).

Whereas threads that discuss a challenge subject prior to voting, such as the following two examples, are very positive for maintaining a learning environment at DPChallenge. Example 1, Example 2
 02/28/2008 10:05:23 AM · #88
Originally posted by GeneralE:
The term is "Sieg Heil" (Hail victory!), pronounced "zeeg hile"...

As long as we're nit-picking facts, it's actually more like "zeek". :-P
02/28/2008 10:17:14 AM · #89
I voted to allow discussion as long as the image is not an alternate shot that compromises the anonymity of the challenge entry.

For instance, I posted this in "peace":


This was an outtake that I could not post until after, because it gave away who the entry belonged to:


This was my potential entry for "leading lines" that did not get entered because I chose to enter into "Peace" instead:


I did wait until the challenge was over to post it, but I don't consider my aborted "Leading lines" entry to be any sort of compromise or taking away from anything else. Many subjects are so broad that there is no way you could prohibit all photos that fall into the category during a challenge.

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 10:17:39.
 02/28/2008 10:41:02 AM · #90
Originally posted by scalvert:


Originally posted by desertoddity:
Originally posted by oscarthepig:
I'd also like to know why it's such a big deal on a site that only awards virtual ribbons. I mean, who really cares?

maybe the people who get them? lol

I hate the outtake rule, but GeneralE strongly backs it. It's more likely that the opposite is true since ribbons already come with plenty of comments and high votes.


I can understand the point of trying to preserve anonymity in voting, but I still don't "get" the reasoning behind banning unrelated outtakes or images from non-entrants.

Speaking as a non-ribboner, I am one who doesn't care. It's just a game; it's just a tiny .gif; big deal.
 02/28/2008 10:50:00 AM · #91
The thread that triggered this whole discussion was not an outtakes thread. It was a suggestion to post the pet photos we took in attempting to enter the Pet challenge, but didn't actually enter.

So there would have been no way of anyone recognizing anything because the posters of the photos in the thread had not entered the challenge. Am I making sense? I was puzzled why there were protests.

I'm sure many of us take photos for a specific challenge and then end up not entering because we don't have an image we deem good enough. Those were the photos in the offending thread.

I too am not for posting outtakes before the challenge ends. But I don't see a problem posting photos by photographers who did not enter the challenge.
 02/28/2008 10:53:37 AM · #92
I am for "1 - Discussion of outtakes should be kept out of the forums until voting has ENDED (current policy). "

This keeps voting more anonymous and prevents favoritism among voters.

If the out takes look like the submitted one, you might as well post the names with the photos during voting.

Any discussion of exact samples of what's good or bad during the voting may sway voters toward certain photos. That allows for strategies theat possibly corrupt and manipulate the now anonymous voting process.

In many contests in the other world, outside of here there exists Blind testing of Foods, Drugs, Wine, Art, and including photographs entered.

[ADDED] There needs to be a way to promote more comments after voting. That needs some attention and discussion.

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 10:55:01.
 02/28/2008 10:55:08 AM · #93
Originally posted by redjulep:
The thread that triggered this whole discussion was not an outtakes thread. It was a suggestion to post the pet photos we took in attempting to enter the Pet challenge, but didn't actually enter.

So there would have been no way of anyone recognizing anything because the posters of the photos in the thread had not entered the challenge.

That's how such photos used to be treated, but now they're considered "outtakes" because they're related to the topic, and some people believe they steal attention and comments away from challenge entries (even though the data shows no such correlation). THIS IS NOT ABOUT POSTING OUTTAKES THAT LOOK LIKE THE PHOTOGRAPHER'S ENTRY! Those have always been prohibited (although poll option 3 appears to open that possibility).

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 10:59:56.
 02/28/2008 10:59:56 AM · #94
Originally posted by scalvert:
... some people believe they steal attention and comments away from challenge entries ...


That's too funny. Maybe "they" should take more interesting pictures that capture the viewer's attention? lol

ETA: Speaking of viewing...holy crap, I've looked at a lot of pictures: Total Images Viewed: 13,690

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 11:02:33.
 02/28/2008 11:11:11 AM · #95
Originally posted by oscarthepig:
That's too funny. Maybe "they" should take more interesting pictures that capture the viewer's attention? lol

"They" do...and then "they" enter them in a thing called a Challenge. :-)
 02/28/2008 11:15:06 AM · #96
Originally posted by glad2badad:

I think threads like this one (and they're not uncommon - just rotate the weekly subject) do more harm than good in attempting to influence the outcome of a challenge midstream (during voting).

Whereas threads that discuss a challenge subject prior to voting, such as the following two examples, are very positive for maintaining a learning environment at DPChallenge. Example 1, Example 2


It would be nice if people would read the challenge with enough care to prevent threads like that one. Given that some people don't read closely and/or don't understand some challenges (and might not look at past challenges :P ), I'm happy to see threads like that one so that voters like the OP of that thread don't just vote low due to their less than careful reading of the challenge.

It's not like that thread is dicussing an interpretation that involves only a photo or two that you can identify. They're talking about a fundamental interpretation issue that relates to many if not most of those photos, and I don't mind that people seek help in clarifying such issues so long as it's not about a small handful or just one photo. In the end it's up to the voter of course and I suppose this is veering off topic for this thread. Sorry
 02/28/2008 12:17:43 PM · #97
I have noticed that some people use themselves in their challenge pictures should this be allowed because it alerts the viewer to the owner of the photograph...?
 03/03/2008 12:41:59 PM · #98
At first I was a little down about this poll, but then I reconsidered: this is the second such poll, and now there is a much more sizable bloc of people who don't want to restrict outtakes.

Viva Outtakes!
 03/03/2008 01:15:07 PM · #99
Originally posted by electrolost:
I have noticed that some people use themselves in their challenge pictures should this be allowed because it alerts the viewer to the owner of the photograph...?

I guess no more self portrait challenges then?
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