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02/19/2008 01:22:15 PM · #76 |
wow every time I check out the challenges section. The brown challenge got change daily. A brown ribbon is the honour bestowed upon the image that places last in a challenge. Its a dubious honour, but one that has acheived some measure of cult status.
In the beginning it didn't said not you own. now it a cult status |
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02/19/2008 01:30:40 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Nobody:
I was just thinking,..... |
Good idea -- I recommend doing this several times a day :-)
Originally posted by Nobody:
The person who comes in last in this challenge will really have accomplished something.
The Uber-Brown. |
At last -- perhaps a goal with enough oomph to motivate me to enter ... ;-) |
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02/19/2008 01:59:46 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Nobody:
I was just thinking,..... |
Good idea -- I recommend doing this several times a day :-)
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I do my best not to - It only leads to trouble. |
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02/19/2008 02:04:11 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by Nobody:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Nobody:
I was just thinking,..... |
Good idea -- I recommend doing this several times a day :-)
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I do my best not to - It only leads to trouble. |
...or a headache! :-D |
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02/19/2008 02:05:45 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by C_Steve_G:
SO if I choose to reproduce a Tryptich, or other "multi-image composition", will it be legal? |
I believe that would be illegal. The challenge rules are the current "advanced editing" rules.
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02/21/2008 02:29:30 AM · #81 |
| A little late for this to receive consideration, but what I was trying to do was recreate the photo within the rules of the challenge it was entered in and according to the theme. This seemed to me to be within the spirit of this challenge, though to work it that way the two photos would have to appear side by side, appropriately labeled, for appropriate judging. The way it is, advanced editing for all, and no reference to the challenge or photo seems to defeat the spirit of the challenge. Oh well? |
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02/21/2008 01:39:00 PM · #82 |
I've just been looking through some brown ribbons to shoot something for the challenge....but my question is this:
Why is coming last in a challenge even lauded on a site like this? I mean, the cult of brown ribbon imho does more harm to DPC than good. Why? Because in voting people see these entries and it affects their voting mood, and therefore the next random image to be presented is going to get a harsher vote. If people are voting their way through 200+ images, these type of images are cumbersome and a waste of time.
The REAL brown ribboner should be someone who tried hard but came last. Not someone who deliberately aimed to be voted the least by being obnoxious...and there's quite a few in there. This is a site about challenges and competing in challenges, whilst learning....where is the value in brown ribbons for all of this??
I'd even go further and suggest a DNMC checkbox in voting...so that if 50% (or any sensible figure) of the voters agreed that it DNMC then it would be DQd, rather than competing with perfectly valid entries.
And yes, you can shout "who are you to decide what is valid" - but if the majority of voters who are spending their time voting agree, then the democratic masses can decide what is and what isn't valid/DNMC.
In short, brown ribbons should be an unfortunate consolation prize...not something to aim for because it's cool or because you can't turn out anything better and want the notoriety.
Anyone else feel the same after looking at all those brown ribbons??
N
Message edited by author 2008-02-21 13:39:50.
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02/21/2008 01:43:50 PM · #83 |
The vast majority of the browns are as you say unfortunate consolation prizes. There are those that chase them, but they are not a large group, nor do they chase them regularly. I think the goal of the challenge was to try to improve upon something that may have been a good idea but not well executed, or with which a different execution might be more appealing to the masses. In some cases there are brown ribbon winners who were completely satisfied with their shot and the way it turned out. The voters didn't see it that way.
All that said, I'm going for at least the last page in this one. :-) But bear in mind I really did work to get the shot I entered, and had specific goals in mind for it. I'm pleased with the result. |
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02/21/2008 01:43:56 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by C_Steve_G:
SO if I choose to reproduce a Tryptich, or other "multi-image composition", will it be legal? |
I believe that would be illegal. The challenge rules are the current "advanced editing" rules. |
I thought about doing this too - presenting the original brown ribbon on the left, and then my reinterpretation/reshoot on the right...but I'm certain that whilst it's in good spirit that it's breaking the Advanced editing ruleset.
It's a shame because it would have been nice to have had a special rule to allow it for this challenge.
N
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02/21/2008 01:47:54 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by C_Steve_G:
SO if I choose to reproduce a Tryptich, or other "multi-image composition", will it be legal? |
I believe that would be illegal. The challenge rules are the current "advanced editing" rules. |
I thought about doing this too - presenting the original brown ribbon on the left, and then my reinterpretation/reshoot on the right...but I'm certain that whilst it's in good spirit that it's breaking the Advanced editing ruleset.
It's a shame because it would have been nice to have had a special rule to allow it for this challenge.
N |
You could title the photo with the name of the original challenge...
or with the inspiration photo's title...
or with the image ID #....
Just a couple of ways to convey the information without breaking rules. |
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02/21/2008 01:49:27 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
In some cases there are brown ribbon winners who were completely satisfied with their shot and the way it turned out. The voters didn't see it that way. |
But being completely satisfied with your shot and it complying to some of the most basic requirements of the challenge are two different things - and the voters are all pretty clear when it comes to DNMC shoehorns etc and hence why they end up as browns.
We have challenges to actually challenge...if you get creative enough with anything you can make any photo fit the challenge, but where's the point of that?? What's the challenge? And how little regard does it give to those people who spent time and effort meeting the challenge who have to vote on these??! And who learns from these photos? No-one! Therefore the value to the DPC community is small.
N
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02/21/2008 01:50:28 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
You could title the photo with the name of the original challenge...
or with the inspiration photo's title...
or with the image ID #....
Just a couple of ways to convey the information without breaking rules. |
Yep...thanks...am going to copy the original image title with ID# - but the reality of it is that voters aren't likely to have the time or the inclination to goto the original image for each of the submissions when voting...
N
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02/21/2008 01:55:47 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Originally posted by KaDi:
You could title the photo with the name of the original challenge...
or with the inspiration photo's title...
or with the image ID #....
Just a couple of ways to convey the information without breaking rules. |
Yep...thanks...am going to copy the original image title with ID# - but the reality of it is that voters aren't likely to have the time or the inclination to goto the original image for each of the submissions when voting...
N |
True. Many of us won't look up the reference if provided. Some may even be annoyed (or baffled) by the image ID#. As always, proceed at your own risk and remember it's meant to be fun. ;) |
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02/21/2008 01:56:15 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
But being completely satisfied with your shot and it complying to some of the most basic requirements of the challenge are two different things - and the voters are all pretty clear when it comes to DNMC shoehorns etc and hence why they end up as browns.
We have challenges to actually challenge...N |
Not all of them are shoehorns and some actually fit the challenge very well, but just didn't have the aesthetics that please voters. Too much blur, for instance. I can think of several browns that I thought both fit the challenge and that I liked, though I will admit that this isn't always the case. :-) Then there are a few that were simply entered in the wrong challenge - this happened a few times after the site went to two open challenges each week. Saw a note earlier today from a gentleman who inadvertantly did that very thing (though I believe he self-DQ'd because of it.)
Yes, it's a challenge site. And yes, I think there are ways to learn from some of the browns. In some cases, it's what NOT to do and that in itself is a learning tool; in others it may be to approach a subject a bit differently (though perhaps not quite that differently) and that may teach someone to look at things a new way. |
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02/21/2008 02:08:40 PM · #90 |
| UNFORTUNATE consolation prize? NOT EXACTLY. I am way too insecure to TRY for the Brown; on the other hand my taste and level of talent more often than not place me in the nether reaches, and though I am not sorely dejected thereby I am made happier here at DPC at the idea of a cult status for the brown. It has occurred to me that people here who are very serious about the challenges will take it upon themselves to decide that my lack of progress scorewise makes me unworthy to continue.... |
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02/21/2008 02:13:01 PM · #91 |
| You do bitchin' way cool stuff - don't sweat it. :-) |
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02/21/2008 02:17:32 PM · #92 |
Too much thank you.
What I was getting at was a certain righteous tone that appears from time to time - things like people only wanting comments from "good" photographers.
Message edited by author 2008-02-21 14:30:40. |
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02/21/2008 02:17:39 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Originally posted by Melethia:
In some cases there are brown ribbon winners who were completely satisfied with their shot and the way it turned out. The voters didn't see it that way. |
But being completely satisfied with your shot and it complying to some of the most basic requirements of the challenge are two different things - and the voters are all pretty clear when it comes to DNMC shoehorns etc and hence why they end up as browns |
The problem is that some "shoehorns" are actually only the result of an uninformed voter -- not a failure of the photographer to "correctly" interpret the challenge topic. See the discussion of this photo for my own favorite example (of one of mine).
It is not always possible on the five or so seconds the average voter spends looking at a picture to adequately understand how the photographer has "creatively interpreted" the challenge topic -- I see very few photos for which I cannot find any relationship at all to the topic. |
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02/21/2008 02:26:26 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Originally posted by Melethia:
In some cases there are brown ribbon winners who were completely satisfied with their shot and the way it turned out. The voters didn't see it that way. |
But being completely satisfied with your shot and it complying to some of the most basic requirements of the challenge are two different things - and the voters are all pretty clear when it comes to DNMC shoehorns etc and hence why they end up as browns.
We have challenges to actually challenge...if you get creative enough with anything you can make any photo fit the challenge, but where's the point of that?? What's the challenge? And how little regard does it give to those people who spent time and effort meeting the challenge who have to vote on these??! And who learns from these photos? No-one! Therefore the value to the DPC community is small.
N |
After some of my recent challenge scores, no, I disagree with your suggestion. Particularly the notion that 50% of the voters should get to throw the entry out as not worth their time to look at. My entries were serious, on topic attempts and I'm learning from taking them.
No they don't conform to some generic standards for pretty photographs. So far I don't feel I've particularly hit my stride in taking a good image in the particular genre I'm exploring. So I spend time and effort taking them. I'm trying to improve. I'm learning from taking those photographs (and so apparently are some of the viewers, from the comments I'm getting)
So I respectfully suggest you are a bit wrong in this view. Mind you I've only been second last and third last in the 3 attempts, so I'm not really there yet.
Message edited by author 2008-02-21 14:27:52.
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02/21/2008 02:29:21 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
You do bitchin' way cool stuff - don't sweat it. :-) |
it's ok now  tnun yooz in Deb's Posse - ain't nobody going to mezz wid yoo !!
Or something like that : )
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Message edited by author 2008-02-21 14:31:07. |
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02/21/2008 02:32:56 PM · #96 |
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02/21/2008 02:33:35 PM · #97 |
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02/21/2008 02:35:44 PM · #98 |
messin wit u ?? no man I aint messin wit u - don't you be gettin that Deb's down here an involved . . .
I'm backin out man !!
or as we say here in Sunny Blighty "Gosh !!" |
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02/21/2008 02:37:11 PM · #99 |
| LOL!! Being in Deb's posse may not be good for you DPC-scoring health - just keep that in mind. :-) |
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02/21/2008 06:49:36 PM · #100 |
Guys, I think you misunderstand me...like certain trollhunts I'm only really talking about a really really small number of photos. Nothing radical here.
General, as you say if you look hard enough you can pretty much make any photograph fit a challenge - but that seems somehow counterintuitive to the very notion of a challenge, where there is a specific subject open to be interpreted by DPCers. Surely there has to be some kind of reasonable point at which according to a vast majority of people that certain photos really are DNMC.
Gordon, I'm not talking about closing down creativity or putting up barriers...or encouraging cliche or mainstream shots...but when 200 people all independently vote a photograph 1 because it DNMC is it not fair to say that according to this site and the voters it really doesn't meet the challenge.
I don't feel that strongly about this and have an open mind...and I do hear what you are both saying, and that maybe even a DNMC challenge checkbox would evolve into something that just produced cliche/mainstream images...I get that too...but it just feels like there must be a way to encourage people to produce photographs that are still out of the box, original and lateral thinking, unusual execution etc...that are still relevant to the challenge.
N
Message edited by author 2008-02-21 18:50:25.
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