What would you charge? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon RF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS USM

01/06/2008 12:49:37 AM · #1

I have just found out that a company has been using one of my images to promote their company. They took it from one of my clients discs without their permission.

The image is a portrait of a miner. My client has the model release form as it was their employee. But this other company decided they would use it. The mining company has assured me that they never gave them the disc for this reason...but instead for advertising of their own company at a 3 day field day that is organised by the offending company. I have a feeling that the mining company will be seeking legal action also.

I have spoken with my lawyers and they have asked me to find out what it is worth to me financially.

I have just found out and even though it isn't a full page image...they have admitted that they have the large print resolution...so they have had the ability to print as large as they want. I have also found out that they have used it for over two years in a montage of several images on the following applications.

- A page in a twelve page 2007 calendar distributed through the local newspaper to over 5,000 locations.
- A page in a twelve page 2008 calendar distributed through the local newspaper to over 5,000 locations.
- Business Cards
- Posters
- Advertising materials in newspapers and other areas?

Now, my dilemma...what do I charge them for using this image.

Venom

Canon EOS R

01/06/2008 01:12:49 AM · #2

Originally posted by Judi:

I have just found out that a company has been using one of my images to promote their company. They took it from one of my clients discs without their permission.

The image is a portrait of a miner. My client has the model release form as it was their employee. But this other company decided they would use it. The mining company has assured me that they never gave them the disc for this reason...but instead for advertising of their own company at a 3 day field day that is organised by the offending company. I have a feeling that the mining company will be seeking legal action also.

I have spoken with my lawyers and they have asked me to find out what it is worth to me financially.

I have just found out and even though it isn't a full page image...they have admitted that they have the large print resolution...so they have had the ability to print as large as they want. I have also found out that they have used it for over two years in a montage of several images on the following applications.

- A page in a twelve page 2007 calendar distributed through the local newspaper to over 5,000 locations.
- A page in a twelve page 2008 calendar distributed through the local newspaper to over 5,000 locations.
- Business Cards
- Posters
- Advertising materials in newspapers and other areas?

Now, my dilemma...what do I charge them for using this image.

YOWSERS!! Me thinks that they are kind of at your mercy. You could really stick it to 'em since they used your image w/o permission or you could reach some kind of "agreement".

You know like say "I'll only charge you "$XXX" but you agree to use "X" number of my pictures in the future". It would be job security, if you want to put it that way. Yes, No, maybe something to think about?

As far as pricing goes I'm still only a beginner so I won't even venture to guess (I'll leave those opinions to the little more knowledgeable. Sorry, I wasn't a lot of help. BB

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

01/06/2008 01:14:50 AM · #3

Yup...a bit of input...there were 4 other images of mine in the montage...from a shoot I did for them...but of the field days....nothing to do with mines. They paid me for those. They had absolutely no connection with me over my mining image.

So they already do use my imagery....lol!

BeeCee

Nikon D40

01/06/2008 02:45:06 AM · #4

Charge them something like 10 times as much as what you charged for the shoot you did do for them, and point out to them that next time it'll be cheaper to hire you than steal from you; and hire you they should, since they've proven they like your work.

chris48083

Pentax K10D

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

01/06/2008 03:02:39 AM · #5

id go as high as you think is possible, its a company so they probably have deep pockets and you might as well make them pay for it...

Mike_Adams

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/06/2008 03:21:56 AM · #6

I personally would wait and see what their offer to settle rounds out at. Of course come up with a number that will be satisfying to you, but first, I would wait to see what they come up with. They might surprise you with a number you never would have asked for. Rather than tip your hand and allow them the opportunity to either negotiate you down or slide in for an amount less than they were willing to pay get a number from them and then you and your attorney's are in an even better spot knowing what they wanted to start the settlement at. Clearly you are already in the driver's seat as they are and have been knowingly and illegally utilizing your imagery. :) Good luck and I hope this provides a windfall for you :)

Jimbo_for_life

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

01/06/2008 04:12:54 AM · #7

it best be high, they used your photo for 2 years, without permission and they knew. if it was for a ad that was benifiting there buisness money wise, i would be sure to charge them a little more.

if you really wanna be "that guy" you could if your going to court, put a arrest on them so they can only use images contracted between you and them for the period of 1 year. This would lock you in as the main photographer of their buisness and they would not be allowed to get photos from anyone else

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/06/2008 04:35:00 AM · #8

This is all great advise...as are the PM's. Thanks heaps.

I will be contacting another Legal Advisor tomorrow for further discussions.

OmanOtter

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

01/06/2008 04:59:29 AM · #9

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high on sticking it to them too hard. I can't speak for Australia, but in the U.S., you're going to look at what your actual damages are (i.e., what would this use of your photos have cost them had they purchased the rights from you to begin with) and POSSIBLY punitive damages IF you can prove that they did this intentionally (i.e., that the corporation (vice some low-level lackey) realized that they were using your image without authorization). Only in that case are you likely going to get punitive damages (by "punitive" I mean money over and above what the actual use was worth. Then, of course, you must deduct the cost of the lawyers (an amount that will increase the longer you fight this out). Personally, I think you should approach them, point out the error, inform them what the price really would have been for such a use, and then work something out that would include payment AND additional use of your services. If you sue them, you may get paid. But you'll also lose their business. If, on the other hand, you come across as reasonable and accommodating, you will probably be paid anyway AND win over a future client.

Message edited by author 2008-01-06 05:00:18.

rossbilly

Nikon D200

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

01/06/2008 05:24:47 PM · #10

Judi, I think a pertinent question involves IF you want to do more work for this company. In other words, was this simply an oversight that can be made 'right' with some money, and you appreciate their honesty & paying you? OR, have they destroyed your trust & you won't be wasting your time with them again?

Either way, I hope things work out for you... and hope you'll share the outcome / resolution with us (if you can).

Sunshine86

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

01/06/2008 10:42:52 PM · #11

sent you a message Judi, hope it can be of some help. :)

kevrobertson

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/06/2008 10:46:08 PM · #12

a spare 5D and a decent lens at least i think

Kev

DefyTime

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/06/2008 10:47:58 PM · #13

get paid Red...get REAL Paid!! Hope it turns out very well for ya.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/06/2008 10:57:08 PM · #14

I agree with Mike Adams. The first (and about only) rule I learned in negotiation is to always have the other party make the first offer. I'd talk to them, point out that you have them by the nuts, and ask them what they think is reasonable. Double their response, and voila. :)

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

01/06/2008 10:57:54 PM · #15

Judi, If you were affiliated with your local ProPhotog Association (like PPA) you could likely have them fight this battle for you. You should contact a Pro shooter association and ask them about your rights in your area. Chances are a good invoice and threat of lawsuit will get their attention. Still, I wouldn't expect a huge paycheck, chances are they are a small business with a small budget. Your best bet is cease use of your images and a minor monitary compensation for their inadvertant theft. Unfortunately, most people don't know they can't use images they "find" for their own profit. We need more education.