Who will be the next US president?

12/20/2007 06:26:57 AM · #126

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Is your friend's husband a lettuce picker? a hotel maid? dishwasher?

Those are the predominant types of jobs held by illegals.

I live in the Southeast US and there are many other jobs held by illegals. The building trades is one where they do quite well here. It's one area where locals are being displaced. The fact we allow them into the country without documentation is a security threat and it really sets them up for exploitation. I'd rather see the border sealed and the number of legal immigrants increased by 100 to 500 percent.

12/20/2007 06:31:50 AM · #127

Originally posted by LoudDog:

How many Americans would work for $15-20/hour?

Tens of millions of *LEGAL* residents of the good ol' USA work for 15 to 20 bucks an hour.
What's yer point. ;)

12/20/2007 06:34:48 AM · #128

Originally posted by karmat:

heck, let all (the rest) of the illegals come to NC.

They can get a driver's license without proof of citizenship.
When they get a driver's license they can register to vote.

Annnnd, if the governor has his way, if they are illegal, they can still attend community colleges in the state. (one source I read said for free, others didn't mention that).

Well, when questioned about the community college thing he indicated they'd have to pay out of state rates, so he didn't expect many to attend. I suspect there is something he's not telling us. Like the state of NC is going to pay most of the cost. What a load of crap.

Chinabun

Canon PowerShot SD990 IS

12/20/2007 06:35:38 AM · #129

He is a construction worker.

Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Is your friend's husband a lettuce picker? a hotel maid? dishwasher?

Those are the predominant types of jobs held by illegals.

I live in the Southeast US and there are many other jobs held by illegals. The building trades is one where they do quite well here. It's one area where locals are being displaced. The fact we allow them into the country without documentation is a security threat and it really sets them up for exploitation. I'd rather see the border sealed and the number of legal immigrants increased by 100 to 500 percent.

12/20/2007 06:42:42 AM · #130

Originally posted by eamurdock:

1) Ok, recognizing that "physically securing the border" in any real way is a practical impossibility. But I'm all for taking reasonable steps to control who comes in.

The US/Mexico boarder could be made much more secure. It would only take 3 to 5 billion dollars of the 1.5 TRILLION we've wasted in Iraq. Then we could update our guest worker program to give the workers better conditions. As it is now, it's a businesspersons dream.
That and increase the number of legal immigrants allowed from Mexico.

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

12/20/2007 07:40:02 AM · #131

Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by eamurdock:
1) Ok, recognizing that "physically securing the border" in any real way is a practical impossibility. But I'm all for taking reasonable steps to control who comes in.

The US/Mexico boarder could be made much more secure. It would only take 3 to 5 billion dollars of the 1.5 TRILLION we've wasted in Iraq. Then we could update our guest worker program to give the workers better conditions. As it is now, it's a businesspersons dream.
That and increase the number of legal immigrants allowed from Mexico.

Have you ever actually taken a look at the US/ Mexico border ? I mean drive along it for any significant period of time ? I don't think it could be any more physically secured than it currently is by the mostly inhospitable desert that it currently is. If people manage to get through that, any sort of fences are going to be pretty much a roadbump along the way.

Sure a lot of money could be thrown at it, but I think in the end it would be fruitless exercise. There's plenty of roadblocks and checkpoints within Texas already and they all seem to be easily bypassed. I think the physical size of the problem is typically ignored by this 'secure the border with a fence' notion.

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

12/20/2007 08:32:54 AM · #132

Vote for Slippy, and your wildest dreams will come true.
Thank you.

rox_rox

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

12/20/2007 09:11:18 AM · #133

Americans for better immigration has graded the candidates on their immigration stances.

Democrats

Republicans

12/20/2007 09:16:18 AM · #134

Originally posted by Chinabun:

If there is a president who will:

A) drug test people on welfare in order to receive a check (they drug test government workers so we can get paid, so why not them?)

B) give me FULL financial aid loans so I dont have to scrape to go to college just because I make more then 40,000/yr (cause the government dont take into consideration I have a mortgage and have to eat)

C) not tax me as high (because I have no children and get no cuts)

D) lower my medical insurance (because i'm in the 30-40 range now so i'm about to die so rates went up)

E) get rid of illegals who take our jobs (my best friend is about to lose her house because they fired her contractor husband and are paying illegals to do the job for half the cost)

AND! They should also fire the people who work in the immigration department when you call and inform them of the illegals (where they are, who they work for) and they never get back to you or act like they will do anything about it.

F) Get rid of letting "those people" start businesses and then hand the businesses off to their family members without having to pay taxes"

The average joe can have the hardest time starting a business. Makes business people not even want to be born here just so they can come over and reap the benefits of not paying taxes.

.....that's who I will vote for and that's just a little of what I want.

Wow! talk about the irony of democracy......

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

12/20/2007 09:18:12 AM · #135

Originally posted by rox_rox:

Americans for better immigration

would be more honestly stated as 'Americans for less immigration' or perhaps 'Americans for bringing the economy to a grinding halt'

rox_rox

Canon EOS-20D

12/20/2007 09:31:58 AM · #136

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by rox_rox:
Americans for better immigration

would be more honestly stated as 'Americans for less immigration' or perhaps 'Americans for bringing the economy to a grinding halt'

I'm not really familiar with that organization. I was attempting to tie the direction of the thread back into the main topic.

Honestly though, I don't believe that our economy hinges upon exploiting desperate people for their cheap labor. This idea is sort of like a huge Ponzi scheme. There are much better answers for rescuing our economy.

Message edited by author 2007-12-20 09:32:34.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/20/2007 09:32:04 AM · #137

Originally posted by kolasi:

Originally posted by LoudDog:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
You'd be willing to multiply your grocery bill by 5 and pay that??

It's not just the fact that an apple would cost $2, a head of lettuce $5, it would drive up the cost of milk, bread and just about any other food item to ridiculous levels.

How about doubling your room rate at hotels?

Tripling the cost of your meal out?

Lets see the math behind those numbers. How does a hotel room rate double just because the maid's pay goes up a little? Even if the maid's pay doubles? If it took an hour to do a room that would add what, $10/room? Per the illegal immigrant friendly NY Times they make about the same as legal citizens. only they don't pay taxes and they don't reinvest the money in the US.

But yes, I'm willing to pay more if it means all those jobs are now filled with tax paying Americans that spend their money here.

And, I agree with the article that there would possibly/probably be a labor shortage, which is why I'd be in favor of legal migrant workers that pay taxes, come here legally, and go home.

Frankly, I'm shocked that you are against oursourcing American tech jobs, but have no problem with manual labor being outsourced.

eh yeah with same logic about paying 10 fold for fruit, I could say well why should I pay 10 fold the cost of IT work when I can get it so cheap if its outsoursed.

Plus the prices will nto have to be that high, Dole and Sunkist will just have a lower profit margin which i could care less about

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against controlling immigration of manual laborers from other countries, but sealing off the borders is going to do nothing but drive up costs.

This is the one area where, so help me, I actually think the current president makes sense. His idea to allow farm workers and the like to enter the US and work legally is a good one.

You may not care about Dole and Sunkist's profit margins, but I'd bet their stakeholders do. If the agriculture industry (or any other industry) becomes not profitable, the investors will sell and the industry will collapse.

The difference between outsourcing technical work (and, no, I do not necessarily mean IT jobs, but manufacturing and engineering work) and letting manual laborers work here doing menial job is the technology that gets exported along with the job.

12/20/2007 09:42:12 AM · #138

Originally posted by rox_rox:

That site would also seem to like to curb legal immigration too, at least from their rating scheme. Guest worker programs for lower skilled jobs does seem like a reasonable suggestion. For higher skilled jobs all a guest worker program is doing is increasing global competition against US firms, as people work here, gain skills then get forced to go home and start a business.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED

12/20/2007 10:09:09 AM · #139

Originally posted by Gordon:

For higher skilled jobs all a guest worker program is doing is increasing global competition against US firms, as people work here, gain skills then get forced to go home and start a business.

So? Then they start to want imported goods and services that we provide. The truth is that we are a demand driven economy so immigrant workers are filling a demand. The other truth is that our economy is maturing from a secondary to a tertiary economy (and has been for thirty years) and there's bound to be some "growing pains". To blame immigrants is narrow minded and unenlightened. Study your economics book and think of the logistical nightmares of some of the solutions offered.

mileskea

Nikon D700

12/20/2007 10:13:11 AM · #140

What difference does it make who it is? It HAS to be an improvement on the incumbent postholder!:)

Message edited by author 2007-12-20 10:13:43.

12/20/2007 10:17:51 AM · #141

Originally posted by neophyte:

Originally posted by Gordon:
For higher skilled jobs all a guest worker program is doing is increasing global competition against US firms, as people work here, gain skills then get forced to go home and start a business.

So? Then they start to want imported goods and services that we provide. The truth is that we are a demand driven economy so immigrant workers are filling a demand. The other truth is that our economy is maturing from a secondary to a tertiary economy (and has been for thirty years) and there's bound to be some "growing pains". To blame immigrants is narrow minded and unenlightened. Study your economics book and think of the logistical nightmares of some of the solutions offered.

You might want to re-read what I posted. I think a guest worker program is a bad idea, in place of immigration, for higher skilled jobs. Current proposals to reduce green cards and h1-b visas only damages the US economy. Forcing highly skilled workers to leave the US doesn't help the US, yet that's what many would like to do.

Message edited by author 2007-12-20 10:19:23.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/20/2007 10:22:24 AM · #142

I read correctly the first time and I don't think that that repatriation is a bad thing. People repatriating their skills or money are just another part of the economic process. I do agree that the knee jerk reaction of the Government is short sighted. Read "The Irony of Democracy" this does a good job towards explaining the public pressure on the lawmakers.

Message edited by author 2007-12-20 10:24:55.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

12/20/2007 10:24:25 AM · #143

Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by LoudDog:
How many Americans would work for $15-20/hour?

Tens of millions of *LEGAL* residents of the good ol' USA work for 15 to 20 bucks an hour.
What's yer point. ;)

Was I not clear? They are not just doing the jobs that Americans won't do and they are not underpaid.

12/20/2007 10:24:57 AM · #144

Originally posted by neophyte:

though I'm most specifically not blaming immigrants as you said.

12/20/2007 10:33:40 AM · #145

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by neophyte:
I read correctly the first time and I don't think that that repatriation is a bad thing. People repatriating their skills or money are just another part of the economic process. I do agree that the knee jerk reaction of the Government is short sighted.

though I'm most specifically not blaming immigrants as you said.

I wasn't directing this at anyone specifically and I apologize if this is what you interpreted. Some views expressed in this thread are more insightful than others.

To get back on track.. I'd like to see anyone who has a true grasp of globalization and a strategy that's not just politically popular elected.

Message edited by author 2007-12-20 10:35:46.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

12/20/2007 10:34:01 AM · #146

Originally posted by Gordon:

Have you ever actually taken a look at the US/ Mexico border ?

Yup. A couple of times in the 60's I rode along most of the Rio Grande portion of the border. You also might recall I made no mention of a fence.

I'm not silly enough to think the security part is all of the equation either. Employers must be policed and forced to pay the price when they employ illegal immigrants.

The only true solution is for Mexico to redesign their country so huge numbers of it's citizens won't want to immigrate.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

12/20/2007 10:36:34 AM · #147

Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Have you ever actually taken a look at the US/ Mexico border ?

Yup. A couple of times in the 60's I rode along most of the Rio Grande portion of the border. You also might recall I made no mention of a fence.

I'm not silly enough to think the security part is all of the equation either. Employers must be policed and forced to pay the price when they employ illegal immigrants.

The only true solution is for Mexico to redesign their country so huge numbers of it's citizens won't want to immigrate.

So you were near the border 40+ years ago. Do you think it's the same now?

12/20/2007 10:36:41 AM · #148

Originally posted by LoudDog:

Was I not clear?

No. You're just loud. ;)