Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize - DPChallenge Forums

12/17/2007 10:40:44 AM · #126

Originally posted by ryand:

Yes, routerguy had it right, and from spazmo:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
And, of course, I'm sure that you ALWAYS tell the absolute truth, no matter the consequences, right?

Hey i'm up for debating, but i don't really care for personal attacks.

Who's attacking?

The question remains, do you hold others to standards which you, yourself do not meet? Specifically, in this case lying to some degree.

You're the one who called Al Gore a liar. I simply turned the question around.

12/17/2007 10:44:07 AM · #127

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

You're the one who called Al Gore a liar. I simply turned the question around.

So, you are calling me hypocritical, but ya'll just said that Al Gore being hypocritical is fine.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

12/17/2007 10:48:11 AM · #128

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by ryand:
Yes, routerguy had it right, and from spazmo:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
And, of course, I'm sure that you ALWAYS tell the absolute truth, no matter the consequences, right?

Hey i'm up for debating, but i don't really care for personal attacks.

Ok, so ignore the remark about your personal politics, and answer the rest. (Or don't if you're put off.)

I have an example from the movie which I'll bring up. When they were talking about the polar bears who died because they swam too far and they couldn't find any ice, well thats a lie, the story was actually that there was a bad storm and they were killed during the storm, then he turns around and wins an award for a "documentary" which is supposed to be completely based on completely true fact. There are also huge exaggerations, such as the rate that the world is warming, yet "documentaries" are movies that are utterly true.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

12/17/2007 11:04:41 AM · #129

Originally posted by Louis:

Also, even if he is a hypocrite, what does that matter? He's not the only source on the planet warning you of global warming. One person's hypocrisy does not negate an issue raised by thousands of scientists.

My point when I slammed Gore a while back was that, no, on no level is what he's saying untrue, what I wanted to know is, like the Internet, why is it that supposedly he's the one with all the brains and the guy on top of it all when there have been countless others over the years?

Add to that, he's not really doing anything to move forward, he's just "Informing us and making us all aware.". What a load of sh*t! There have been so many people who have been not only aware, but doing what they can to save their own little corner of the world on a daily basis for years, without this attention-grabbing prima-donna who acts like he's the answer to it all.

I'd bet my last dollar that if this didn't get the publicity that it does, he'd drop the whole subject like a hot potato and move on to the next flavor-of-the-day.

I just think he's a self-serving jerk.....I don't really think anyone disputes that we're killing the earth, just that giving Gore a Nobel not only won't fix anything, but that in an awful lot of people's minds, it sullies the integrity of the award.

I know in my mind, what was an honored and august achievement, has been cheapened. To put Al Gore in the same circle as the Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, Elie Wiesel, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King, and so many others who really made a difference is just a plain and simple disgrace.

It just irks me, and is a slap in the face to so many people who have been quietly working for decades to actually make changes in their lives to do things that are more conscious of leaving our footprint on this earth, to have this jerk accorded the credit for being a leader in awareness.

What a crock!

Message edited by author 2007-12-17 11:06:50.

Flash

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

12/17/2007 11:10:25 AM · #130

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by ryand:
Shoot, he can have a 100,000 sq. foot house if he'll stop badgering us about "global warming." But the point here is that he is being extremely hypocritical. Usually people that try and tell people about stuff live it out.

Did you read the newspaper article about how his house was upgraded, and is now one of the greenest houses in America? To quote the article: "...a building-industry group has praised the house as one of the nation's most environmentally friendly."

Kind of true but not completely.

The following are quotes from the article; BOLD is mine added for emphasis.

["One of the things that is tremendously powerful about what the Gores have done is demonstrate that you can take a home that was a dog, an absolute energy pig, and do things to correct that," Shinn said.

The Green Building Council's certification program has four levels, with platinum being the highest followed by gold. Gore's home was one of 14 to earn gold status and the only Tennessee home to earn any certification.
Electricity usage at the home remains well above regional averages, but Gore's power consumption decreased by 6,890 kilowatt hours, or 11 percent, between June and August, despite the heat wave.
Gore's electric use increased again after he had to take his solar panels off-line in August so his new geothermal system could be integrated into the system. But his natural gas use has dropped 93 percent in the three months since the geothermal pump was activated.
When the Gores' heated pool is hooked up to the system later this month, their energy use is expected to decline more, his spokeswoman said.
Gore has also said he invests in renewable energy such as solar and wind power to balance 100 percent of his electricity usage.
Stephen Smith, executive director of the Southern Alliance for Clean Energy, said the size of Gore's house limits how much he can cut his energy consumption.
"We all need to evaluate what we legitimately need in square footage," he said."]

So...Gore made some improvements in February of 2007, on a house that was an absolute energy pig (a house he bought in 2002), to become a gold level rated home, by a group which says it is a good as he could make, but he still should evaluate how many square feet he really needs - as should everyone else.

Again - what part of limiting house size is not clear? What part of an advocates position "Live Green", supported his purchase of this monstrous energy pig, that didn't get "upgraded" untill AFTER he made the movie, is not clear? He is an opportunistic hypocrite - period. If Al Gore living in a huge house that still uses more energy (AFTER IMPROVEMENTS) than the regional average is an example of what to do to be GREEN, then anyone who recycles a few can/bottles, turns off a few lights, shuts down their computer when not used, should at least be likewise commended.

Message edited by author 2007-12-17 11:11:35.

pidge

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

12/17/2007 11:14:38 AM · #131

Originally posted by ryand:

You realize the way your write it you are saying that the polar bears died because of the storm (only), whereas the article this is based says there was high winds, strong storms, AND the polar bears were seen farther offshore, swimming, than had been observed in previous years. The weather is not mentioned in the abstract, but there is also this article which sort of sums up the journal article

Charles Monnett1 Contact Information and Jeffrey S. Gleason1
(1) Minerals Management Service, Environmental Studies Section, 3801 Centerpoint Drive, Suite 500, Anchorage, AK 99503, USA

Received: 25 April 2005 Revised: 20 December 2005 Accepted: 20 December 2005 Published online: 12 January 2006
Abstract During aerial surveys in September 1987â��2003, a total of 315 live polar bears were observed with 12 (3.8%) animals in open water, defined for purposes of this analysis as marine waters >2 km north of the Alaska Beaufort Sea coastline or associated barrier islands. No polar bear carcasses were observed. During aerial surveys in early September, 2004, 55 polar bears (Ursus maritimus) were seen, 51 were alive and of those 10 (19.9%) were in open water. In addition, four polar bear carcasses were seen floating in open water and had, presumably, drowned. Average distance from land and pack ice edge for live polar bears swimming in open water in 2004 (n=10) were 8.3Â±3.0 and 177.4Â±5.1 km, respectively. We speculate that mortalities due to offshore swimming during late-ice (or mild ice) years may be an important and unaccounted source of natural mortality given energetic demands placed on individual bears engaged in long-distance swimming. We further suggest that drowning-related deaths of polar bears may increase in the future if the observed trend of regression of pack ice and/or longer open water periods continues.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

12/17/2007 11:25:06 AM · #132

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Louis:
Also, even if he is a hypocrite, what does that matter? He's not the only source on the planet warning you of global warming. One person's hypocrisy does not negate an issue raised by thousands of scientists.

My point when I slammed Gore a while back was that, no, on no level is what he's saying untrue, what I wanted to know is, like the Internet, why is it that supposedly he's the one with all the brains and the guy on top of it all when there have been countless others over the years?

I don't think that's the case, and I think North American culture needs a persona that champions a cause and has science-based credibility. But even if he's a spotlight-grabbing attention-getter (which is in itself kind of a ridiculous proposition in his case), who cares? Does that detract from the message? If it does, then you are at fault, for you have made the messenger more important than the message.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

12/17/2007 11:36:03 AM · #133

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
You're the one who called Al Gore a liar. I simply turned the question around.

So, you are calling me hypocritical, but ya'll just said that Al Gore being hypocritical is fine.

But you said being hypocritical wasn't OK. So, are you or aren't you?

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

12/17/2007 01:05:23 PM · #134

Originally posted by Louis:

I don't think that's the case, and I think North American culture needs a persona that champions a cause and has science-based credibility.

What science based credibility? The guy has a political science background; that only qualifies him to be a pubilicity grabbing opportunist, not someone who is likely to change the world through his contributions.

The people who have been supplying his path to glory are the ones who should have been accorded this award WITHOUT Al Gore, but instead, they fall to the list of also-rans......anybody able to recite ANY of the names of the people on his panel of experts without Google?

Originally posted by Louis:

But even if he's a spotlight-grabbing attention-getter (which is in itself kind of a ridiculous proposition in his case), who cares? Does that detract from the message? If it does, then you are at fault, for you have made the messenger more important than the message.

I already have stated that it doesn't detract from the message. But it's not a message that needed to be said in many circles......if you're talking about "Taking it to the masses" fine, but these may also be the people that are least likely to care. My point is that the message is entirely redundant to so many people of my generation, and I sincerely hope to the generations we have raised to follow our lead.

To tell you the truth, I resent the implication (Not *your* implication, just in general) that I need Al Gore to clue me in as to how to live right when I do more by rote about how I live than he does on purpose.

It just galls me that this guy has so much credibility.....we really are a nation of sheep if this guy is our champion.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

12/17/2007 01:18:07 PM · #135

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

What science based credibility? The guy has a political science background...

Not his. The science of global warming.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

To tell you the truth, I resent the implication (Not *your* implication, just in general) that I need Al Gore to clue me in as to how to live right when I do more by rote about how I live than he does on purpose.

That last claim is probably demonstrably false, given the new status of his home, but in any event, nobody is implying you need Al Gore. You simply need the facts. The facts plus a champion is a better concoction for your sheepy masses.

Edit: I'm wondering about your political affiliation. My implication in a response to ryand sounded like a swipe, but it was genuine question. I feel there is a direct link to despising Al Gore and potenitally dismissing global warming as a result (not you but in general), and one's right-leaning tendencies.

Message edited by author 2007-12-17 13:19:44.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

12/17/2007 01:55:29 PM · #136

Originally posted by Louis:

I feel there is a direct link to despising Al Gore and potentially dismissing global warming as a result (not you but in general), and one's right-leaning tendencies.

The message one hears is almost always colored by one's perception of the messenger.

Flash

Nikon D700

12/17/2007 02:07:04 PM · #137

Originally posted by Louis:

I feel there is a direct link to despising Al Gore and potenitally dismissing global warming as a result (not you but in general), and one's right-leaning tendencies.

I am not aware of those on the "right" claiming that the Globe is NOT warming. What we disagree on, is what the root causes are (manmade vs historical), the amount of impact that man is responsible for, and lastly the daily example set by GW's poster child. Please save this to your memory.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

12/17/2007 02:07:34 PM · #138

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Louis:
I feel there is a direct link to despising Al Gore and potentially dismissing global warming as a result (not you but in general), and one's right-leaning tendencies.

The message one hears is almost always colored by one's perception of the messenger.

Used to be more fun when you could cut the messenger's head off and send it back as your reply.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/17/2007 03:02:54 PM · #139

Originally posted by Flash:

Originally posted by Louis:
I feel there is a direct link to despising Al Gore and potenitally dismissing global warming as a result (not you but in general), and one's right-leaning tendencies.

I am not aware of those on the "right" claiming that the Globe is NOT warming. What we disagree on, is what the root causes are (manmade vs historical), the amount of impact that man is responsible for, and lastly the daily example set by GW's poster child. Please save this to your memory.

What is in my memory is the fact that the current administration edits scientific publications and controls what scientists can say if the conclusions are in conflict with the position of the administration, none of which are qualified scientists.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

12/17/2007 03:03:10 PM · #140

//www.generationim.com/about/

Generation Investment Management was co-created by Al Gore. It is a for profit investment firm based in London that invests in companies that supply green products and technologies. Because it is privately owned by its employees, it does not need to publish financial data, so we do not know how much profit they make or how much Al Gore is paid by the company. An investment firm makes money when the companies they invest in make money. Thus, as more money is put into green products and research, GIM will make more money. GIM does donate 5% of their profits to green research. The other 95% of the profit goes to the owners/investors.

12/17/2007 03:03:17 PM · #141

Originally posted by routerguy666:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Louis:
I feel there is a direct link to despising Al Gore and potentially dismissing global warming as a result (not you but in general), and one's right-leaning tendencies.

The message one hears is almost always colored by one's perception of the messenger.

Used to be more fun when you could cut the messenger's head off and send it back as your reply.

Ahhhh! The good old days....

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

12/17/2007 07:02:06 PM · #142

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

But you said being hypocritical wasn't OK. So, are you or aren't you?

I don't think being hypocritical is okay, I try my best not to lie, i won't say I've never lied, but we are getting way off from the original point. Also I haven't tried to persuade a nation with lies.

Louis

Nikon D800

12/17/2007 08:14:03 PM · #143

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
But you said being hypocritical wasn't OK. So, are you or aren't you?

I don't think being hypocritical is okay, I try my best not to lie, i won't say I've never lied, but we are getting way off from the original point. Also I haven't tried to persuade a nation with lies.

You mean like George Bush?

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

12/17/2007 09:12:41 PM · #144

Originally posted by Louis:

You mean like George Bush?

I wasn't really thinking along those lines, I'm not sure of any he has lied to us about, i would honestly be interested in knowing what you say he has lied about, not that he is perfect, but he is certainly better than some we have had.
I was thinking more along the lines of Al Gore, or the president who had an affair while in office, then denied it when he was under oath in the courts, and whose wife is now running for president.

Message edited by author 2007-12-17 21:27:51.

dacrazyrn

Nikon D300

12/17/2007 09:14:32 PM · #145

Originally posted by Louis:

You mean like George Bush?

I always love this one. AWESOME comeback.

12/17/2007 09:39:17 PM · #146

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Louis:
You mean like George Bush?

I wasn't really thinking along those lines, I'm not sure of any he has lied to us about, i would honestly be interested in knowing what you say he has lied about, not that he is perfect, but he is certainly better than some we have had.
I was thinking more along the lines of Al Gore, or the president who had an affair while in office, then denied it when he was under oath in the courts, and whose wife is now running for president.

The only time GW Bush lies is when his mouth is moving.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

12/17/2007 09:40:55 PM · #147

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Louis:
You mean like George Bush?

I wasn't really thinking along those lines, I'm not sure of any he has lied to us about, i would honestly be interested in knowing what you say he has lied about, not that he is perfect, but he is certainly better than some we have had.
I was thinking more along the lines of Al Gore, or the president who had an affair while in office, then denied it when he was under oath in the courts, and whose wife is now running for president.

The only time GW Bush lies is when his mouth is moving.

I was kind of thinking along the lines of examples.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

12/17/2007 09:43:28 PM · #148

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

What science based credibility? The guy has a political science background...

Originally posted by Louis:

Not his. The science of global warming.

Okay.....so what use is he?.....8>)

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Louis:

Umm.....I'd be careful of that if I were you. You have no way of knowing how much work I did SPECIFICALLY with good intent and the sideline advantages that went with the theme of my business. I had my business for 17 years and I've always been way more careful how I did my job than most others in my field, including when I worked for other companies.

AND.....I was cleaning up after other people as part of what I did.....Gore's cleaning up his act with his own home certainly doesn't qualify as being on the same level whatsoever as what I do.

I live and operate in the real world, not the world of spin doctors and hype.

I'd bet you my last dollar that no way on earth would Al Gore bend over and pick up a piece of trash and deposit it in a trash can just because he saw it and it needed to be done.

I just do that because I give a shit. And I don't do it for the six o'clock news or to win an award, I just do it. You won't see my name on a sign adopting a piece of road, but you may see me picking up somewhere that I am.

Originally posted by Louis:

I'm wondering about your political affiliation. My implication in a response to ryand sounded like a swipe, but it was genuine question. I feel there is a direct link to despising Al Gore and potenitally dismissing global warming as a result (not you but in general), and one's right-leaning tendencies.

I'm theoretically of the same generation he is, but I'm cut from a different cloth. I'm not a political animal and pretty much keep my opinions to myself because I'm neither particularly well informed, nor do I care all that much. The way the system works, it's reasonably safe to trust the American way and try and do the best that I can in the immediate area that I live.

What that's done in return is make me less likely to badmouth politicians in general, and the president in particular, especially when ANY rational, reasonably well informed American knows that any one man really cannot bury us and get us in all the trouble that one president after another has been getting blamed for in one manner or another for the last four or so decades.

So......as a registered non-affiliate of either side, I try and make reasonably well informed choices when I vote depending on the offerings, as does my wife, but I don't spend a lot of time with it, and if my wife and I are totally at cross-purposes on the candidates, we go have a nice dinner rather than cancel each other's vote out.

That cloud your question enough on where I am?.......8>)

I probably believe, and know, as much or more about some of the multitude of ways that we're fouling our nest simply by virtue of the fact that I'm something of an anomaly.....a fundamentally blue collar guy, with a white collar, old money education and background who escewed form for function, and got most of my real education in the real world by actively learning and doing almost everything I needed to do myself. I'm fascinated with how things work, I have natural aptitude and a quasi-photographic memory when it comes to disassembly, repair, and reassembly of almost anything. So I have been exposed to all kinds of industry, manufacture, production, and have been dealing with the end result and cleaning up afterward all my life.....taking the copper pipe from the plumbing job to the recycler, breaking up old furniture to dispose of it properly......the fabric may be trash, but instead of throwing it out whole, we'll strip the wood out of it and use it as kindling and/or patch wood for a myriad of little projects. And recycling, on so many levels just makes good sense. You wouldn't believe how much I dismantle and reuse some of the oddest things, and what I don't use, but is serviceable, I pass along. For instance, for some strange reason, people give me their old computers that will have something minor wrong that I'll take care of, or have a friend fix, and I'll pass it along to a friend who can't afford a new one or donate it to a halfway house or women's shelter. Yeah, maybe I waste a little time and gas to do that, but I can't stand the thought of a perfectly serviceable system like that hitting the scrapper for a few dollars and a little time worth of repairs. If I get one that's pretty much junque, I give the functional ancillaries to the guy that I scrounge repair parts from. Sometimes, I'll just get one that is too tangled for me to spend the time, and I'll just give him the whole unit. So right there, you're talking a little mini-network of recycling that I just do here and there because I'm a little conscientious and the stuff comes my way. Oh, did I mention that I'm *not* a computer guy?

I do cardboard here and there, I have friends that I contact when I find someone somewhere who has an old outbuilding that needs taken away who use the lumber for "period" paneling in new construction....I just pay attention to what goes on around me. It's not just about recycling, it's about how you live.

In the long run, what *I* do doesn't affect you, it affects the people around me, and my kids, and the friends of my kids who may get one of my old computers or that come along on one of our adventures, or the neighbor lady who needs her garage cleaned out, and the stuff moved on, and we'll take the time to separate the trash from the recyclables, and we'll sell that antique wood stove to the antique dealer.....and give her the money. It's just living right, and it is its own reward in the long run. I may not change the world, but I can make damn sure that this little corner is a good and decent place to live......like it was before too many senseless, careless people f*cked it up.

You really think I need any advice from Al Gore?

Merry Christmas!.....8>)

12/17/2007 10:22:34 PM · #149

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Louis:
You mean like George Bush?

I wasn't really thinking along those lines, I'm not sure of any he has lied to us about, i would honestly be interested in knowing what you say he has lied about, not that he is perfect, but he is certainly better than some we have had.
I was thinking more along the lines of Al Gore, or the president who had an affair while in office, then denied it when he was under oath in the courts, and whose wife is now running for president.

The only time GW Bush lies is when his mouth is moving.

I was kind of thinking along the lines of examples.

WMD's, Declaring Victory in Iraq, Anytime he says he cares about someone who is not one of his business cronies, When he says he doesn't know who outed Valerie Plame,