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11/11/2007 12:43:53 AM · #1 |
Japanese tourist kicked-off Amtrak train for taking photos.
Be careful if you ride Amtrak and want to take pictures!
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11/11/2007 12:45:05 AM · #2 |
Wow. I just went to NYC recently on Amtrak and they didn't boot me off - thank goodness!
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11/11/2007 12:51:07 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by L2:
Wow. I just went to NYC recently on Amtrak and they didn't boot me off - thank goodness! |
Well it was some guy that got booted off. I doubt a woman such as yourself would get the boot. Us guys have it tough!
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11/11/2007 12:55:23 AM · #4 |
| Very sad, although I don't get the whole story from that link. For all I know he could have been taking photos (however innocently) of the conductor at the controls or up a passenger's skirt. If he was just shooting scenery out the window, then I hope the security guys get some serious reprimands and offer a huge apology. |
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11/11/2007 01:12:32 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Very sad, although I don't get the whole story from that link. For all I know he could have been taking photos (however innocently) of the conductor at the controls or up a passenger's skirt... |
The main article says that the security folks said, "Sir, in the interest of national security, we do not allow pictures to be taken of or from this train."
So I guess he wasn't taking upskirt photos (unless it was Condalisa Rice or government official). ;-)
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11/11/2007 01:26:30 AM · #6 |
| Most alarming. He was kicked off because Condi was wearing a skirt? |
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11/11/2007 02:12:07 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
The main article says that the security folks said, "Sir, in the interest of national security, we do not allow pictures to be taken of or from this train." |
Was the train passing through Area 51? ;-) |
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11/11/2007 05:07:35 AM · #8 |
I personally think it is very disturbing that paranoia has hit people in charge so hard as to be forced into behaving aggressively towards foreign visitors. I have seen this kind of violence before where officials, police or the likes have mumbbled some kind of order at a foreigner and then on hearing the foreigner does not understand they simply become louder and start shouting the same orders as if the person did not hear.
I'm certain the tourist was innocently just taking photos (not upskirts, that must be a Russian tennis thing) Maybe a simple notice on display written in multi language as to resemble the muli-cultural society to the likes of -:
TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS ON THIS TRAIN MAY RESULT IN YOU BEING THROWN OFF AND SUBJECT TO INTERROGATION.
Write that in several languages then nobody can complain can they. |
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11/11/2007 08:18:04 AM · #9 |
Amtrak has always advertised themselves as a way to see the country........shouldn't that also apply to preserving the memories of your trip as well?
I can't see how you can get away with that if you don't have such a disclaimer posted.
What about the whole "Photographer's Rights" and "Public Domain" thing?
The link to The Photographer's Right:
//www.krages.com/phoright.htm
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11/11/2007 08:55:30 AM · #10 |
To be completely fair, we don't have the whole story here. There are no names, and nothing that makes this verifiable. From the information we have, we don't know, for example...
* Whether the passenger had in fact taken any photographs that could reasonably arouse suspicion.
* Whether the conductor, in an earlier leg of the trip or in another car, had previously instructed the passenger to stop, and the passenger had moved to this car to ignore that order.
* Whether the following police investigation found wrongdoing, or grounds for reasonable suspicion.
As to the Photographer's Right, that document specificially states: "In any case, when a property owner tells you not to take photographs while on the premises, you are legally obligated to honor that request." As owner of the train, and absent evidence of illegal discrimination, the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak), or its agents, do have an absolute right to prohibit photography on their trains. In addition, train crews, like flight crews, legally have broad authority over activities on their trains.
That said, I hope that appropriate complaints were files by the passenger in question, and by the passengers who witnessed the alleged incident. To be sure, Amtrak should fully investigate, and if the events happened substantially as the linked blog would have us believe, then I share your outrage and feel very strongly the conductor should be disciplined. We should keep in perspective, however, that there's a lot we don't know about the situation, and what information we have been given was presented in the context of promoting a particular point of view.
~Terry
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11/11/2007 12:01:27 PM · #11 |
I took the train to Washington State last year and took pictures almost constantly, and no one bothered me about it, even when we disembarked for some time while the train was halted so a crew could perform track repair:
 Taken from the lounge car:  |
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11/11/2007 01:31:28 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by tnun:
Most alarming. He was kicked off because Condi was wearing a skirt? |
Condi wears skirts? |
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11/11/2007 02:43:52 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
To be completely fair, we don't have the whole story here. There are no names, and nothing that makes this verifiable. From the information we have, we don't know, for example...
* Whether the passenger had in fact taken any photographs that could reasonably arouse suspicion.
* Whether the conductor, in an earlier leg of the trip or in another car, had previously instructed the passenger to stop, and the passenger had moved to this car to ignore that order.
* Whether the following police investigation found wrongdoing, or grounds for reasonable suspicion. |
True.....we also don't know if there *wasn't* any such things, either.....8>)
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
As to the Photographer's Right, that document specificially states: "In any case, when a property owner tells you not to take photographs while on the premises, you are legally obligated to honor that request." As owner of the train, and absent evidence of illegal discrimination, the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak), or its agents, do have an absolute right to prohibit photography on their trains. In addition, train crews, like flight crews, legally have broad authority over activities on their trains. |
Absolutely, however, in most cases that's written to cover situations like retail stores that don't want their competition snapping away at their pricing and displays, and companies who don't want their environments on 8X10s in their competitor's corporate boardrooms; hardly representative of the kind of application that a tourist on a sightseeing trip on a train, which is touted as such in the company's own main advertising campaign.
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
That said, I hope that appropriate complaints were files by the passenger in question, and by the passengers who witnessed the alleged incident. To be sure, Amtrak should fully investigate, and if the events happened substantially as the linked blog would have us believe, then I share your outrage and feel very strongly the conductor should be disciplined. We should keep in perspective, however, that there's a lot we don't know about the situation, and what information we have been given was presented in the context of promoting a particular point of view.
~Terry |
True......but there seems to be an awful lot of situations where photogs get run out of places that they shouldn't.
That said, there's been some guy around here taking picture of kids at play and school from a distance.
Makes *ME* want to catch the guy and haul him into the cops!!!
Makes it difficult for us real photogs.
ETA: Just went to Amtak's site, and they don't say anything one way or the other about cameras and photography that I can find uner electronic devices, security, or any other category I could think to research.
Not expressly allowing or forbidding it in their customewr literature sure makes it hard to enforce these days where you have disclaimers on everything imaginable.
Message edited by author 2007-11-11 14:57:11.
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11/11/2007 02:59:21 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I took the train to Washington State last year and took pictures almost constantly, and no one bothered me about it, even when we disembarked for some time while the train was halted so a crew could perform track repair:
Taken from the lounge car: |
Dude.....
How much for the full size image?????
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11/11/2007 03:07:13 PM · #15 |
In one of the linked discussions there's some plausible speculation that the original story may be apocryphal as well. Several people pointed out that AMTRAK offers Tips for taking pictures from their trains right on their website and have even sponsored a photo contest ("... featuring our logo ..."!!).
They certainly didn't bother me the last time I traveled with them, even when taking shots which actually could be (loosely) considered security-related:
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11/11/2007 03:13:10 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by tnun:
Most alarming. He was kicked off because Condi was wearing a skirt? |
Condi wears skirts? |
Oh yes. It's Janet Reno who wears the pants.
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11/11/2007 03:29:21 PM · #17 |
Hmm....
I didn't find that.
Isn't really helpful to me......I don't use any of the film they specify!......8>)
Oh, WAIT!!!!!
I don't use film AT ALL!!!!!
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11/11/2007 03:55:10 PM · #18 |
I cannot believe that he was taking innocent pictures and got kicked off. When I went to Seattle last year ( a three day trip) I took over 10 rolls of film. The conductor (stevedore, uh, etc) who was in charge of the sleeper I was in even let me hang out one of the doors to get an unobstructed/not-thru-the-window shot of the main train and the mountains. It was HIS idea... which I jumped on.
While I think about it... when they caught me smoking in the bathroom (smoking car was 5 cars back) all they did was look at me, shake their head and make sure that I disposed of my cigarette in a safe, and immediate way.
This foreigner must have been doing sumpin' wrong, methinks!
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11/11/2007 08:47:56 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I took the train to Washington State last year and took pictures almost constantly, and no one bothered me about it, even when we disembarked for some time while the train was halted so a crew could perform track repair:
Taken from the lounge car: |
Dude.....
How much for the full size image????? |
Try this version ...  |
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11/11/2007 09:19:10 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Taken from the lounge car: |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Dude.....
How much for the full size image????? |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Try this version ... |
MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH better!
Thanx!
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