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11/09/2007 06:28:13 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
A free month membership to the person that votes the most each month. Or something like that... |
but it only takes 2 or 3 people to vote on all the images in all the challenges and then Langdon is dishing out free-memberships left, right & center.
Another suggestion, actually plagiarized from someone in this thread is just a campaign suggesting people to "Get out and vote".. make it a banner on the frontpage, make it bigger than the tiny news release we have, have a voting month.. Obviously that will taper off pretty quickly, but coupled in with my original idea, yeah, I think that could just work! |
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11/09/2007 06:28:27 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
A free month membership to the person that votes the most each month. Or something like that... |
This would never entice me. I'd rather just pay the money and be done with it.
I have posted above my thoughts on voting. I suppose I look at it this way... I enjoy this site and learn much from it. I like to enter challenges and I can sit back and get as much as I want from here for just my membership fee (or for free if I am only a registered user).
Making voting and comments part of the deal forces me to participate in the site and if I'm not willing to do that little bit when I expect everyone else to vote and comment on my entries - why am I here? |
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11/09/2007 06:30:12 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
I like Marie's idea. It's out of the box for this crew and that is exactly what we need. Make it a privilege to be able to enter challenges and get voted on, commented on, not a right. This would foster an even better learning experience for this site (it's already good). I like many of the ideas, but Marie's really changes the dynamic and that just might be what we need! |
I pay my money once a year, I don't need to do more to be able to enter a challenge. Also, some months (especially the summer season when I shoot a lot of weddings) I don't have the time to sit and vote on challenges, but I still get the odd shot when I am out and about that I can shoe-horn into a challenge, to punish me for being too busy in real-life is a bit harsh. |
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11/09/2007 06:30:26 PM · #54 |
Eh what are ya gonna do it seems that not even enticing people will get them to vote, as for me I pay to play if I had to do more than that I wouldn't.
Message edited by author 2007-11-09 18:39:58. |
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11/09/2007 06:31:52 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by RamblinR:
I'd rather just pay the money and be done with it.
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Some can't "just pay the money"...
Message edited by author 2007-11-09 18:32:04. |
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11/09/2007 06:32:09 PM · #56 |
| Could follow the Australian model and fine people for not voting. |
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11/09/2007 06:38:04 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by frisca:
voter drop-off is one of the areas that SC has been very concerned with over the last few months. We've been trying to figure out WHY its happening, but maybe the reasons don't matter as much as finding a way to encourage people to vote more.
I think this is a great idea, and it separates voting from commenting, which was the usual way people felt gratified for voting (and we all know how people feel about commenting!) |
Not that you asked but if I may suggest this is probably the root cause?
Too many repeat challenges and too many are stock related
At least if you are going to repeat a challenge select only those that have shown to be quite popular. A few that come to mind would be Wildlife, Postcard, Self Portraits, Deja Vu, Sports, or anything that allows you to make an album, poster or some design out of your photo. Anything would be better than Something Old, Bokeh and Filling the Frame, which all seem to target only those starting out. Give us some more challenging tasks, ones that require either strong emotional content or abstract concepts to weed out some of the dry stock stuff, which are usually dull and boring because people just keep doing the same tricks/concepts.
ETA: I'm always late to these threads so if this has been suggested already (and by someone other than [user]routerguy666[/user]) then just ignore.
Message edited by author 2007-11-09 18:40:01.
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11/09/2007 06:39:50 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
How about a little dispenser that after every vote gives the voter a Liv'r Snap?
Worked for me training my dog. |
Ahh, so very Maslow. Hierarchy one wouldn't work in a virtual reality. |
Yeah, thinking back, Liv'r Snaps taste awful too. |
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11/09/2007 06:41:43 PM · #59 |
| I think the obvious issue is there are too many challenges and most of them are stock related. |
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11/09/2007 06:48:08 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by bergiekat:
I like Marie's idea. It's out of the box for this crew and that is exactly what we need. Make it a privilege to be able to enter challenges and get voted on, commented on, not a right. This would foster an even better learning experience for this site (it's already good). I like many of the ideas, but Marie's really changes the dynamic and that just might be what we need! |
I pay my money once a year, I don't need to do more to be able to enter a challenge. Also, some months (especially the summer season when I shoot a lot of weddings) I don't have the time to sit and vote on challenges, but I still get the odd shot when I am out and about that I can shoe-horn into a challenge, to punish me for being too busy in real-life is a bit harsh. |
Ok, I'm a little confused at your post. (This reply is not a personal attack - please do not take it that way)
Do I understand this to mean that because some are so busy (and the rest of us aren't!!!) that they just pay their membership and if they don't want to vote at all that's fine. They don't enter many challenges because of time constraints and just 'shoe-horn' entries for all the rest of us to vote on just for them.
Hmmmmmm.... and that's really the mentality we need to encourage around here.
My suggestion for voting/commenting is to weed out this type of person. If you want to enter a challenge you must participate in the site, not just reap the rewards.
Edited to correct grammer
Message edited by author 2007-11-09 19:02:57. |
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11/09/2007 06:55:06 PM · #61 |
I would handle the problem somewhat like professional golf does. They have a similar situation; a lot of contestants, and limited interest in the less competetive contestants. I would, after the first 3 days of voting, make a cut. I would eliminate all but the top say 40% from voting. The next 4 days would just be voting on these entrants. It would allow people who want to vote on everything their option to do so, and it would allow people who would prefer to concentrate on the higher scoring images (I didn't say better images) to do that. I would leave all the photos open for comments until the voting ends.
Another thing I would do to stimulate interest (it's pretty radical) would be to allow more discussion of the challenge in the forums during voting. Discussion stimulates interest and interest would increase voting. I think it would be interesting; imagine...Hey the photo with the zebra, don't you think dnmc? Everybody would look, and argue, and vote. |
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11/09/2007 07:22:10 PM · #62 |
I honestly don't know what the answer is to get people to take the time to vote. I can really only relate my own feelings here...
For me, there are two motivations for voting. First, I just feel like voting is an obligation of being a member here. I know that not everyone has the time to vote on all of the shots, but I just feel like the whole thrust of the site revolves around people voting on challenge images.
Secondly, I strongly feel that I learn the most from the site by voting. Seeing all the different styles of shots, good and bad, is really how I've learned the most from the site.
Every week, I set aside time to vote. It has just become part of my routine. And I look forward to Mondays and Wednesdays when the new challenges appear. For me, it's not a burden to vote; it's a privilege and a learning experience.
I really wouldn't want to come up with new methods of encouraging people to vote that would make people feel "forced" to vote for the sake of voting. I'd much rather try to get people to realize that voting is a fun experience that benefits them as much as the people who took the shots. |
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11/09/2007 07:55:21 PM · #63 |
| My thought is if you enter a challenge, you have to vote on 20% or your entry will be voided. |
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11/09/2007 09:18:24 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by RamblinR:
Do I understand this to mean that because some are so busy (and the rest of us aren't!!!) that they just pay their membership and if they don't want to vote at all that's fine. They don't enter many challenges because of time constraints and just 'shoe-horn' entries for all the rest of us to vote on just for them.
Hmmmmmm.... and that's really the mentality we need to encourage around here. |
That's a rather elitist statement, but I can see that you're picking up on the negative connotation of "shoehorning".
I have not had time to plan for challenge shots in about a year. I shoot what I can, when I can, and I don't do so with DPC in mind. If I go to the park to escape the chaos at work and by some miracle I have my homework done, I might take my camera. And while there, I might get a photo that just happens to maybe fit a challenge.
So I enter it. I don't much care if you or anyone else thinks it's a shoehorn. I think it's pretty.
And then homework catches up with me again, and I spend the entire weekend studying for a graduate level law exam instead of voting on your precious entry.
People have lives. I wish I had the time to vote that I used to have, but I barely even find the time to keep photography in my life at all, and frankly, I come first. Then work and school. Then you. You, meaning the whole of DPC, rank no higher than fourth at best on my list of priorities. The pace of my life would make your head spin.
Bottom line: some of us are really, really, really busy, and shockingly, we really don't appreciate it when people here call us out as slackers. It's rude and irresponsible of you to even imply it.
How do you entice the less busy folks to vote?
I think that a certain quantity of voting should be a requirement before allowing a new user to submit, which may help weed out those unwilling to put in the effort.
But more than anything, I think that providing a "safe" environment in which c&c is welcome will encourage voting as well. Scores threads in which people berate generic unknown user X for voting their pictures 1's or leaving unfavorable comments should be axed since anyone reading that tripe gets the sense that their votes and comments are unwelcome. The atmosphere here has become considerably more toxic since I joined up last year. People are snippier, angrier, and SC has to make administrative posts about playing nice. People have flat out said many times exactly why they don't comment - the hate mail they get isn't worth it. When you bite the hand that feeds you, don't act so surprised when you realize no one is feeding you anymore. Voting and commenting go hand in hand, and the sportsmanship here has indeed slipped a bit.
That's my best suggestion. Can the negative posts. Give strikes for hate mail. Make a push for constructive critiques in the forums. Stop accusing your fellow users of trolling or anything else that makes you look a wee bit sanctimonious. Stop judging the people and start judging the photos. And when you get a comment or a vote you don't like, for Christ's sake, act like adults!
Now back into the fray... the litterbox needs to be cleaned, I have a chapter of marketing to read for Monday, a law test on Wednesday, and I haven't gotten my dinner yet. God forbid should I be not voting.
Message edited by author 2007-11-09 21:21:51.
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11/09/2007 09:43:23 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by RamblinR:
Ok, I'm a little confused at your post. (This reply is not a personal attack - please do not take it that way)
Do I understand this to mean that because some are so busy (and the rest of us aren't!!!) that they just pay their membership and if they don't want to vote at all that's fine. They don't enter many challenges because of time constraints and just 'shoe-horn' entries for all the rest of us to vote on just for them.
Hmmmmmm.... and that's really the mentality we need to encourage around here.
My suggestion for voting/commenting is to weed out this type of person. If you want to enter a challenge you must participate in the site, not just reap the rewards.
Edited to correct grammer |
What's wrong with not having time to enter challenges or spend time voting? Or not even being here to enter the challenges? There are a lot of people on this site for a lot of different reasons. That's what makes the site as good as it is. If everyone was on here for only one thing, to enter the challenges, then you would have a very dull forum... or a very nitch forum that would only appeal to a very select few.
I've never entered a challenge. I've not voted on nearly as many as I'd like to either. Although I'm a single voice in a very big pond I still feel that in spite of not entering challenges, I've still contributed to this site, just as have hundereds of others that are in the same catagory. Amost every single person on here, no matter what they do or don't do, contribute to this site in one way or another. If we were "weeded" out you would find this site a much different and probably not as fun place to be.
Mike
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11/09/2007 09:55:15 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
But more than anything, I think that providing a "safe" environment in which c&c is welcome will encourage voting as well. Scores threads in which people berate generic unknown user X for voting their pictures 1's or leaving unfavorable comments should be axed since anyone reading that tripe gets the sense that their votes and comments are unwelcome. The atmosphere here has become considerably more toxic since I joined up last year. People are snippier, angrier, and SC has to make administrative posts about playing nice. People have flat out said many times exactly why they don't comment - the hate mail they get isn't worth it. When you bite the hand that feeds you, don't act so surprised when you realize no one is feeding you anymore. Voting and commenting go hand in hand, and the sportsmanship here has indeed slipped a bit.
That's my best suggestion. Can the negative posts. Give strikes for hate mail. Make a push for constructive critiques in the forums. Stop accusing your fellow users of trolling or anything else that makes you look a wee bit sanctimonious. Stop judging the people and start judging the photos. And when you get a comment or a vote you don't like, for Christ's sake, act like adults!
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I was thinking along those lines a bit as well, I haven't been commenting as much as I had simply for the fact that you give and never recieve, I still vote just quit commenting so much. It doesn't matter if the photo is good or bad, they all deserve a fair chance to be voted and commented on equally. I know alot of people count on my vote, as I'm counting on thiers, if it wasn't for that, what would be the point of this site?
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11/09/2007 10:00:04 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by frisca:
...finding a way to encourage people to vote more. |
Pay 5c per click (voting) to members.
Charge $20 to those don't vote %20
Randomly select good voters and give "steakhouse gift certification"
Voting should go up :P |
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11/09/2007 10:02:24 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by vtruan:
My thought is if you enter a challenge, you have to vote on 20% or your entry will be voided. |
Cool! Works for me. Usually I vote on the challenge I'm NOT entered in, and I almost always vote 100%.
Based on this suggestion it would save me a lot of time if for some reason I wasn't in the mood for voting. If I'm in Popcorn right now I'd need to cast 15 votes to hit 20%. I'll just pass on the Single Light Source challenge with 199 entries (need 40 to hit 20% on that one).
Forcing people to do things they don't want to do can sometimes make them grumpy. Do you want grumpy people voting on your challenge entry?!
People should vote as they see fit (within the rules obviously). We don't need more rules and restrictions on what we can and cannot do at DPC. There's enough of that already.
Mark ( Simms) made a good suggestion at the beginning of this thread. Give a few pats on the back for those that have the time and make that extra effort to do a lot of voting. Many will be motivated by the additional stat and recognition - it will work. Combine that with a "Get out the vote" campaign and you may get results.
Personally I don't think this is that big of an issue. Free Studies are nearly always the challenges that initiate this train of thought in the forums...so, adjust the Free Studies as suggested by splitting them up to keep them smaller and more managable for the voters.
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11/09/2007 10:02:42 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
That's a rather elitist statement ..... |
I don't see anything elitist about wanting everyone entering a challenge to actually be part of the voting. I had thought that was being fair. Having to vote on 20% of the entries can be time consuming for everyone but voting on entries is how the competition works.
Originally posted by Rebecca:
Bottom line: some of us are really, really, really busy, and shockingly, we really don't appreciate it when people here call us out as slackers. It's rude and irresponsible of you to even imply it. |
I have not meant to offend with my posts. If you have taken it that way my apologies. They asked for ideas I offered. Further comments were made I offered my thoughts.
Edit (spelling)
Message edited by author 2007-11-09 22:19:51. |
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11/09/2007 10:13:47 PM · #70 |
Not too drastic but a simple addition to the profile stats to include percentage of images voted on since (pick a date). Maybe start over each month in case someone gets behind and gives up altogether. This way each month they have a clear board to try to do better. I think most people would like to keep the percentage on their page at a respectable level.
Message edited by author 2007-11-09 22:16:40. |
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11/09/2007 10:24:20 PM · #71 |
It's probably worth mentioning that in the past, we have tried requiring voting or commenting on a certain percentage of entries in order to be eligible to enter the next challenge.
The idea seemed good at the time, but the results can only be described as disastrous. Comment quality was quite poor, and there was a widespread and probably accurate perception that people were "speed voting" just to get it done with. Entrants were unhappy, voters were unhappy, and it was generally a bad situation all around.
My concern is that if people aren't voting, it's because they're not seeing voting as a fun, rewarding, or worthwhile use of their time. Perhaps the question that needs to be asked, is what can we do to make the voting process more fun, more rewarding, more worthwhile, or just plain easier?
~Terry
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11/09/2007 11:24:26 PM · #72 |
i'm guilty
after year 1 and a bit i slowed down to a trickle the number of votes placed
what happened is multifold / i found the number of entries went up & i was going blind looking at poor images or really good images that were carbon copies of others images. i got tired of voting when we went to split challenges (two years ago Oct ) and continued to drop off when we had monthly free study challenges ..
i felt like my photographic soul was being sucked out
200-300 images & only a handful of innovative (good) images ..
(yes i'm guilty of mediocrity myself .. )
some of the heroes left, new ones appeared .. but it is not the same .. some of the jerks left as well
or maybe they grew tired of the baiting (and some stayed ..)
i think that we should move back to two a week / drop the monthly drop the other weekly .. force people to try to fit a topic rather than a choice
if you really want free studies do it in a week ..
reality is - i would rather take pictures than vote
but i haven't had much time to that either ..
sigh ..
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11/10/2007 12:04:05 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
My concern is that if people aren't voting, it's because they're not seeing voting as a fun, rewarding, or worthwhile use of their time. Perhaps the question that needs to be asked, is what can we do to make the voting process more fun, more rewarding, more worthwhile, or just plain easier? |
The obvious answer is also no doubt the hardest. Improve the overall quality of the images on display. |
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11/10/2007 12:17:30 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
My concern is that if people aren't voting, it's because they're not seeing voting as a fun, rewarding, or worthwhile use of their time. Perhaps the question that needs to be asked, is what can we do to make the voting process more fun, more rewarding, more worthwhile, or just plain easier? |
The obvious answer is also no doubt the hardest. Improve the overall quality of the images on display. |
But is that not our responsibility as voters to do by commenting on the images that we feel are less than average quality?
Message edited by author 2007-11-10 00:19:28. |
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11/10/2007 12:30:30 AM · #75 |
I think there have been a lot of good suggestions so far, I have been watching this thread all day. As far as I can tell any of the ideas that would force somebody to vote are a bad idea. Forcing people to vote may increase votes, but I think people would be more annoyed, than happy to vote. I, like many others, like to vote not only to participate in the site, but to use it as a learning tool. If you are voting for other reasons the voting probably isn't at a good quality and I think everybody will suffer as a result. I think making the voting more manageable, and more enjoyable will just get people out voting again. If the free studies are getting 500+ votes, split them up like people have suggested, when I see SOME CHALLENGE IX I am not as excited as when I see something that is going to make me have to work harder and think outside the box, this also makes people want to vote more because they want to see what people have done.
As a recap, the solution is not to require voting, but to make it easier, and more enjoyable to vote. Build it and they will come.
As a side note, I agree with what was said above, why do people think they need to send me an email when I don't give them what they want to hear, if I say something in a comment and then receive an email trying to tell me why my comment was wrong, it makes me not want to comment anymore. Take comments/voting with a grain of salt, not everybody will see it your way, that is the beauty of it all.
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