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11/04/2007 06:16:42 PM · #1 |
| Yes. It doesn't matter what you call it. It's conscious bigotry directed at a group of people. Don't like the term? Ok, replace it with "discrimination" then. Is it a problem? Sure. Apart from the myriad little injustices that people put up with on a daily basis from their neighbours, family, churches, and media, which individually could be considered petty and inconvenient, but taken together could be the stone on the back of the traveller that killed him, discrimination of this kind, unchecked and state-approved, leads to this. |
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11/04/2007 06:21:51 PM · #2 |
| Doesn't say it was state approved, said it was perpetrated by extremists in the police force. Same sort of people who are killing all sorts of other civilians. Sorry, no shock and awe here. |
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11/04/2007 06:21:52 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Louis:
discrimination of this kind, unchecked and state-approved, leads to this. |
Nah, sharia law leads to that.
Which raises the point that homophobia has its roots in religious beliefs. |
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11/04/2007 07:33:02 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Louis:
...Ok, replace it with "discrimination" then. Is it a problem? Sure. Apart from the myriad little injustices that people put up with on a daily basis from their neighbours, family, churches, and media, which individually could be considered petty and inconvenient, but taken together could be the stone on the back of the traveller that killed him, discrimination of this kind, unchecked and state-approved,... |
Replace that with nerdophobia, obesophobia, blah, blah, blah. Is there a difference to homophobia?
I got picked on and called names through Junior High, because I was smart and had a computer (early 80's). But I also was a good athlete and kicked ass in wrestling...but I weighed between 65-85#, and OF COURSE, the bullies were much bigger than I.
I get no special rights for that. Mainly because I am a white male...I have less (if not any-for some) rights and protections than most other "groups" in the US.
Not that has anything to do with the Middle Eastern Laws, but there ya go.
Message edited by author 2007-11-04 19:33:54.
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11/04/2007 07:48:45 PM · #5 |
Homophobia is a dumb word to me. I'm not afraid of homosexuals or what they do, I have freinds that are Homosexuals. I just believe it is a sin in my Christian view.
Also, what really bothers me is that my sister is "Gay". Yes, she has been all my life. She was Gay since an early age, probably just after she was born. My folks had no idea what they had done. She was fine until the late 60s when so many came out and used her name in vain. She has gotten over being Gay and continues to be a Christian and loving Gay. I will always hate agressive homosexuality because it almost ruined my sisters name. Luckily, she hasn't changed since she was aware that she'll always be Gay in our eyes. Now in her 50s, she still is the sweetist wife and partner anyone could have. Oh, by the way her name is Gay, yes, real name is "Gay". Caught ya... I really hate the Homosexual term "Gay" and now you know why. Van
Message edited by author 2007-11-04 19:51:03. |
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11/04/2007 08:29:38 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Replace that with nerdophobia, obesophobia, blah, blah, blah. Is there a difference to homophobia? |
The other groups don't have lobbyists. |
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11/04/2007 08:55:44 PM · #7 |
Any idea taken to the extreme leads to this kind of injustice.... It's sad that humanity can be responsible for this kind of behavior.
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11/04/2007 10:09:58 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
[quote=Louis] ...Replace that with nerdophobia, obesophobia, blah, blah, blah. Is there a difference to homophobia?
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I seriously doubt that the groups you refer to were ostracized by society, castigated by the church, the victim of randam acts of violence, subjected to a myriad of abuses, assaulted and often killed, and all that simply because they dared to love somebody.
Therein my friend lies the difference.
Ray |
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11/04/2007 10:18:24 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
[quote=Louis] ...Replace that with nerdophobia, obesophobia, blah, blah, blah. Is there a difference to homophobia?
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I seriously doubt that the groups you refer to were ostracized by society, castigated by the church, the victim of randam acts of violence, subjected to a myriad of abuses, assaulted and often killed, and all that simply because they dared to love somebody.
Therein my friend lies the difference.
Ray |
Thank you. |
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11/04/2007 10:26:41 PM · #10 |
Well put Ray.
And as far as believing it is a sin according to Christian religious doctrine, then why aren't atheists, deists, Jews, and other non-Christian practicers discriminated against in the same way? Do they not violate the literal "word" of the Bible as well? They are protected by freedom of expression of their own beliefs.
I guess I just don't get it. Why does this particular segment of the population elicit such strong reactions and offend so many people who claim to be modeling their lives after Christ? Wasn't Jesus the one who never turned ANYONE away from His table?
Just my 2 cents... |
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11/04/2007 10:37:41 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by SJCarter:
... And as far as believing it is a sin according to Christian religious doctrine, then why aren't atheists, deists, Jews, and other non-Christian practicers discriminated against in the same way?
I guess I just don't get it. Why does this particular segment of the population elicit such strong reactions and offend so many people who claim to be modeling their lives after Christ? ... |
Because to many heterosexuals, homosexuality is repulsive and goes against human nature as intended by God (one man, one woman - procreation, etc...). |
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11/04/2007 10:38:39 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Yes. It doesn't matter what you call it. It's conscious bigotry directed at a group of people. Don't like the term? Ok, replace it with "discrimination" then. Is it a problem? Sure. Apart from the myriad little injustices that people put up with on a daily basis from their neighbours, family, churches, and media, which individually could be considered petty and inconvenient, but taken together could be the stone on the back of the traveller that killed him, discrimination of this kind, unchecked and state-approved, leads to this. |
Nope. Next question?
Most people I know do not discriminate against people because of a personal problem. I know I don't. However, Christian churches rightly do to a degree -- not because homosexuality is a sin, and certainly not worse than any other -- but because the person is willingly engaging in the sin without repentance. The treatment would and should be the same for someone flagrantly committing adultery, murder, robbery, fornication, etc.
Heard an interview with Mel White the other day and he seemed somewhat reasonable until it came to that -- the church speaking out against homosexuality is causing people to kill themselves, etc. blah blah blah. The root cause is that THEY aren't happy with their chosen lifestyle and are seeking acceptance of their choice by forcing everyone to agree with it.
Homosexuality is nothing like racial or gender discrimination in that it is a chosen behavior. While the attraction, urge, or weakness may seem to come naturally, the behavior is STILL a matter of choice. Indisputable. One need not act on those urges -- like an alcoholic need not act on their urges and weaknesses. One can prove race or gender or age. Homosexuality is self-reporting.
In response to the original link, that was completely wrong. The kid did not deserve that punishment for his wrong. But Islam isn't about peace either and doesn't have the tolerance Christianity does.
Message edited by author 2007-11-04 22:42:43.
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11/04/2007 10:53:20 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
I seriously doubt that the groups you refer to were ostracized by society, castigated by the church, the victim of randam acts of violence, subjected to a myriad of abuses, assaulted...
Ray |
Never seen Revenge of the Nerds, eh?
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11/04/2007 10:54:35 PM · #14 |
Louis, the people who speak against you make your case more eloquently than you do. Homophobia is thriving. In the U.S., a black man can run for President, a woman can run for President, but neither they nor any viable Presidential candidate will say that homosexuals should have the same right to get married that anyone else does.
(I'm waiting for the great wits here to tell me that sure they have the right to marry, as long as it's a person of the opposite sex)
Message edited by author 2007-11-04 22:59:09. |
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11/04/2007 10:57:09 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But Islam isn't about peace either and doesn't have the tolerance Christianity does. |
True Islam is very much about peace, just as true Christianity is about peace. Sadly, there are extremists who have perverted it to their own ends, and those extremists get most of the attention.
Christianity has had its share of militant extremists too.
In any case, this is way off topic.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2007-11-04 22:59:44.
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11/04/2007 10:59:27 PM · #16 |
I think we all agree that homophobia is very real, and that in some cases it is state-supported, or at the very least tacitly approved. The only dispute is whether the linked article is an example of state-supported homophobia, not whether it exists at all.
~Terry
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11/04/2007 11:02:28 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But Islam isn't about peace either and doesn't have the tolerance Christianity does. |
There are as many intolerant Christians as there are intolerant Muslims. Look back through history, and it's probably more.
Message edited by author 2007-11-04 23:03:14. |
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11/04/2007 11:10:20 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But Islam isn't about peace either and doesn't have the tolerance Christianity does. |
There are as many intolerant Christians as there are intolerant Muslims. Look back through history, and it's probably more. |
There were a few Christians, yes. But most of those you refer to were Catholics.
Message edited by author 2007-11-04 23:14:28.
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11/04/2007 11:12:57 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I think we all agree that homophobia is very real, and that in some cases it is state-supported, or at the very least tacitly approved. The only dispute is whether the linked article is an example of state-supported homophobia, not whether it exists at all.
~Terry |
Homophobia implies a "fear" and as such is very much UNREAL. It's a deliberate misnomer in an attempt to marginalize those who have very real concerns about a lifestyle chosen by less than 2% of the population. It's not about "fear".
You may as well call those who have concerns about drug abuse drugophobes or M.A.D.D. a bunch of alcophobes.
It makes just as much sense.
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11/04/2007 11:14:45 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Homosexuality is nothing like racial or gender discrimination in that it is a chosen behavior. |
That statement betrays the ignorance of many so called "Christians". |
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11/04/2007 11:21:17 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Homosexuality is nothing like racial or gender discrimination in that it is a chosen behavior. |
That statement betrays the ignorance of many so called "Christians". |
You mean wisdom I think.
Homosexuality is, without dispute, a chosen behavior. Because you don't actually have homosexuality without activity -- and that activity need not be chosen.
Additionally, you wrongly use "so-called" to discredit the views of Christianity. According to our beliefs, homosexuality is a sin. Period. You can whine and throw a fit, but that's the way it is according to God. However, He still loves all of us and sent His Son to die for all our sins -- mine, yours, everyones'. Homosexuality is just one of those sins.
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11/04/2007 11:23:35 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But Islam isn't about peace either and doesn't have the tolerance Christianity does. |
There are as many intolerant Christians as there are intolerant Muslims. Look back through history, and it's probably more. |
There were a few Christians, yes. But most of those you refer to were Catholics. |
It's not Catholics gunning down doctors with sniper rifles.
It's not Catholics leading hateful protests at military funerals.
It's not Catholics spewing "God Hates Fags" on TV.
It's not Catholics running mega-churches, swindling people out of their hard earned money then embezzling that money for drugs and hookers.
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11/04/2007 11:25:09 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Nope. Next question?
Most people I know do not discriminate against people because of a personal problem. I know I don't. However, Christian churches rightly do to a degree -- not because homosexuality is a sin, and certainly not worse than any other -- but because the person is willingly engaging in the sin without repentance. The treatment would and should be the same for someone flagrantly committing adultery, murder, robbery, fornication, etc.
Heard an interview with Mel White the other day and he seemed somewhat reasonable until it came to that -- the church speaking out against homosexuality is causing people to kill themselves, etc. blah blah blah. The root cause is that THEY aren't happy with their chosen lifestyle and are seeking acceptance of their choice by forcing everyone to agree with it. |
THEY would not have to feel guilt over it if it was accepted, as it should be. That is not their problem, it is society's. The problem is others trying to force them to love or be attracted to a gender they are not. All they want is for you to let them be.
I think you and anyone opposed to homosexuality are asking a lot more than they. But of course you think you are right in your beliefs so you will never see it that way.
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Homosexuality is nothing like racial or gender discrimination in that it is a chosen behavior. While the attraction, urge, or weakness may seem to come naturally, the behavior is STILL a matter of choice. Indisputable. One need not act on those urges -- like an alcoholic need not act on their urges and weaknesses. One can prove race or gender or age. Homosexuality is self-reporting.
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Homosexuality is not a choice or a weakness, just as a man loving a woman is not. If the world were homosexual and you were hetero should you be made to feel that what you felt was wrong? NO. You love who you love, and most people cannot help that. Homosexuality is not a choice. Why would someone CHOOSE a life of persecution and subject themselves to intolerance?
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11/04/2007 11:25:41 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Homosexuality is nothing like racial or gender discrimination in that it is a chosen behavior. |
That statement betrays the ignorance of many so called "Christians". |
You mean wisdom I think.
Homosexuality is, without dispute, a chosen behavior. Because you don't actually have homosexuality without activity -- and that activity need not be chosen.
Additionally, you wrongly use "so-called" to discredit the views of Christianity. According to our beliefs, homosexuality is a sin. Period. You can whine and throw a fit, but that's the way it is according to God. However, He still loves all of us and sent His Son to die for all our sins -- mine, yours, everyones'. Homosexuality is just one of those sins. |
WITH MUCH DISPUTE.... as is the existence of God and the rightfulness of you and your beliefs. I don't care what you believe but don't try and pretend you know what is best for everyone else's life.
Message edited by author 2007-11-04 23:27:19. |
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11/04/2007 11:29:24 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But Islam isn't about peace either and doesn't have the tolerance Christianity does. |
There are as many intolerant Christians as there are intolerant Muslims. Look back through history, and it's probably more. |
There were a few Christians, yes. But most of those you refer to were Catholics. |
It's not Catholics gunning down doctors with sniper rifles.
It's not Catholics leading hateful protests at military funerals.
It's not Catholics spewing "God Hates Fags" on TV.
It's not Catholics running mega-churches, swindling people out of their hard earned money then embezzling that money for drugs and hookers. |
None of those are Christians either. They may appropriate and abuse the name of Christ, but they do not follow His example in the slightest.
1. To Christians, murder is wrong. Abortion as well as murdering the doctor who murders babies.
2 & 3 are the same pretty much. Christians don't believe God hates fags as He says quite clearly He loves us all. He does hate the sin of homosexuality, but no more so than any other sin. As for the funerals, those non-Christian idiots are claiming to speak for God and pronounce His judgement on the soldiers. Christians know He does not work that way.
4. Those people are charlatans again abusing the name of Christ. They are not Christians. Sadly, there are people without the discernment who send them their money too.
I'm sorry the examples you choose to see of Christianity are actually the ones deserving of your label "Christian". Christians are nothing like that.
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