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10/24/2007 12:34:41 PM · #26 |
I'm surprised no one has pointed out that one of the basic premises of this thread was wrong. It scored just over 5, not 4. That means it's a decent shot but not spectacular, and this is the important part, by typical DPC voting preferences. I think Konador did a good job of explaining why.
But here's the thing: don't equate in an absolute sense concepts like skill and artistry with DPC scores. There are many venues, and they often disagree with each other. JPGmag.com prints a lot of stuff I consider poor photos. On the other side, my Sept. free study (which scored below 5) has made it past the first round of judging at betterphoto.com.
So take DPC scores for what they mean: you didn't wow DPC voters. But do YOU like it?
Now, I can understand eventually deciding that your concept of "good" and the average DPC vote's concept of "good" don't mesh. If you then can't find any other reason to stick around, then I wish you luck as you seek communities where those concepts do mesh.
But you might be surprised to find those communities right here, too, just outside the usual boundaries of average challenge scores.
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10/24/2007 12:38:40 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Every image deserves the score it gets. |
Reminds me of the late John Cage: "Is there too much suffering in the world?" - "No, it's exactly the right amount." |
I think of it as more like the answer to the question, "How much is this thing worth." - "It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay."
Maybe it's the same thing. |
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10/24/2007 01:01:17 PM · #28 |
| Maybe it's time to talk to your doctor about Prozac. |
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10/24/2007 01:17:52 PM · #29 |
After reading the many responses, I still think it boils down to my lack of ability to see what has good photo potential. Here is the shot I was going to submit but thought it did not say anything about point of view, so I decided to pass. then the morning the challenge was about to end, I remembered the goose shot and thought "Now there is a shot for point of view. It has a great point of view." Now maybe the pumpkin shot would not have done better, but I guess I need to see if overall it is considered more photographically sound.
It is located here
Link to pumpkin shot
Message edited by author 2007-10-24 13:20:38. |
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10/24/2007 01:25:35 PM · #30 |
| What point of view does it portray? |
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10/24/2007 01:25:43 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by JunieMoon:
After reading the many responses, I still think it boils down to my lack of ability to see what has good photo potential. Here is the shot I was going to submit but thought it did not say anything about point of view, so I decided to pass. then the morning the challenge was about to end, I remembered the goose shot and thought "Now there is a shot for point of view. It has a great point of view." Now maybe the pumpkin shot would not have done better, but I guess I need to see if overall it is considered more photographically sound.
It is located here
Link to pumpin shot |
If your aim is to please the DPC people, I think that's the time that you really lose. Otherwise, your score shouldn't matter if you really like your submission.
Mastery in photography doesn't come overnight and whining certainly won't help.
Keep on shooting and practice until you come to a point in time wherein you can say to yourself... "Ahhhh, I get it."
IMHO, you are way better than me so great job! So what if nobody likes that duck shot? There's always next time, right? Too bad, you quit! :-(
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10/24/2007 01:27:47 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by JunieMoon:
All right, enough. I obviously took a shot that got the score it deserved because it wasn't "unique." I am sorry to have brought it up. Thanks for those who have tried to help.
I am hoping after this I can finally totally remove myself from here. I have tried losing the addiction and I think this will finally do it for me. It has proven that I have a real twisted view of photography, and my scores from past challenges really show that. My scoring of challenge entries also prove that I haven't got a clue because most of the time I score the lower overall 30% in the upper 20% as far as my votes go. So since I seem to have a different view of photography which is way different from the majority here, then I cannot expect to choose entries that will do well. My votes and what I value and vote on are just way too different from the majority of voters here. Also remember, a 5 means you have an average photo, not great, not bad. Anything more is above average, and you should be pleased by any photo you have rated higher than 5. Really, you should be pleased with any photo you take that gives you enjoyment and pleases you.
I cannot cut it, I have never been able to with this group, and I guess that my struggle to excell will never go anywhere. You can't excell if you don't got it, and I don't got it. Thanks to friends from the past. It is time to take the bookmark off for the site. |
Don't let this discourage so easily. If you look at my portfolio, you will see what type of pics I was taking when I first started to what I am taking now. Not much has changed, but I have read many tutorials here and have tried to improve on the caliber of my shots. Lighting, shutter speeds, iso, f stops, and points of focus tutorials have helped me greatly. I am still way far from being any type of professional, but that is not my plans. I wanted to improve the way I take pictures, so they will be a little more than just a snapshot, for my enjoyment only. Whether I sink or swim in these challenges, if I can get some advice on what would or would not have made a difference on the shot, I have accomplished my task of learning something. No site you use will ever have everyone with the same style or taste of photography as you. If you take a pic, and you like what you see, then you have a good pic. Doesn't matter who else likes it, as long as you are happy with it. Criticism is only a path that will help you in the future. You just have to use to accept or not accept the advice you are given.
Message edited by author 2007-10-24 13:37:15. |
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10/24/2007 01:29:04 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
What point of view does it portray? |
That was the point. Other than it looks like a farm silo through the pumpkins, it didn't seem to have one. |
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10/24/2007 01:30:35 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Simms:
But never once (from what I recall) did she moan about it. |
Of course she did. And so have you. It's only human. Give her a break. |
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10/24/2007 01:33:54 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by JunieMoon:
Originally posted by routerguy666:
What point of view does it portray? |
That was the point. Other than it looks like a farm silo through the pumpkins, it didn't seem to have one. |
Then why would you even consider submitting it?
Maybe you suffer from the common malaise "gottasubmitsomething-itis". The only cure is time. |
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10/24/2007 01:43:21 PM · #36 |
Oh gees, I just looked at the date of this absolutely cute shot of my new kitten. I took it on the 12, two days after the point of view challenge was announced. It wouldn't have won, but I'll bet if it had gone in it would have done better. The title is My Dirt. Point of view is things that cats find interesting that we consider nothing at all interesting.
Link to My Dirt
Message edited by author 2007-10-24 13:57:49. |
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10/24/2007 01:47:02 PM · #37 |
I'll tell you what. I have recently started a photoblog at aminus3.com and boy does it boost confidence that may get lost here in DPC land. It's nice to post shots that you love that don't "meet a challenge". I have received over 180 comments in less than a month on the photos that I have posted so far and all of them have been so nice and encouraging.
My current entry in Rainbow is doing less than amazing sitting in the mid 5's, but I KNOW it is a good shot. Just chill out, enter a challenge every now and again and roll with it. If you stop enjoying it, dont enter. Simple as that. Just don't stop taking photos... THAT would be bad and would be letting the bozo's here influence you. |
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10/24/2007 01:47:08 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by JunieMoon:
Oh gees, I just looked at the date of this absolutely cute shot of my new kitten. I took it on the 12, two days after the point of view challenge. It wouldn't have won, but I'll bet if it had gone in it would have done better. The title is My Dirt. Point of view is things that cats find interesting that we consider nothing at all interesting.
Link to My Dirt |
Stop worrying how good it would have done. That may be one of the reasons you are so discouraged. Just because it doesn't do well, doesn't mean it's not a good shot. |
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10/24/2007 01:48:08 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Simms:
But never once (from what I recall) did she moan about it. |
Of course she did. And so have you. It's only human. Give her a break. |
She asked for peoples opinion, and she got it. that is a good enough 'break' don't you think? if people ask for opinions then don't like the reaction they get then maybe it is best not to ask in the first place.
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10/24/2007 01:56:22 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Originally posted by JunieMoon:
Originally posted by routerguy666:
What point of view does it portray? |
That was the point. Other than it looks like a farm silo through the pumpkins, it didn't seem to have one. |
Then why would you even consider submitting it?
Maybe you suffer from the common malaise "gottasubmitsomething-itis". The only cure is time. |
Well, I have not submitted to challenges generally for 2 months. So it isn't that submit something itis. I actually thought that the shot I sent was really good for the challenge. You see, I don't want to submit images that get lower than 20% anymore so I am really picky. Normally if I feel no shots will get above a certain percent then I won't submit any. The fact that this happened with this shot just proves I am still unable to pick images out that have some merit. I had hoped that I had gotten better at choosing. This score shows I am still unable to do that. It really makes one very unsure about their sense of things. My sense will never be there about the pics. Still, when I look at the site these other examples came from, it seems to me that the photos there have a much better sense of things. Looks actually like two different photographers, though they are both me. Strange.
The Other Site
Message edited by author 2007-10-24 14:09:06. |
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10/24/2007 02:00:52 PM · #41 |
| I'm fairly new here so bear with me... It's my opinion that if you're looking for a pat on the back there are better places. If, however, you are looking for something to inspire you to take you to that next level then you are in the right place. To me the challenges are about getting me to think creatively, not taking pictures that I normally would be taking, trying new things, learning, and growing as a photographer. of course I'm a little disappointed with some scores...who isn't really? I've submitted a couple of shots that I know I should have taken more time to do right and that they didn't measure up to my own standards, let alone the group standards here. So...don't give up and keep trying, this is supposed to be fun. |
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10/24/2007 02:20:55 PM · #42 |
I think we all denote how good a shot is by how well the score is. If we continually get low scores, then it has to be because the shots are not good. It is called negative reinforcement. It also continues the downward spiral by basically preventing us from taking certain shots because we feel our sense is just wrong. Therefore how can anything we come up with be any good? You see, the shots I submit that I don't think are good usually do well. So where does a sense of good vs bad ever occur? We never seem to develop that sense no matter how hard we try. Anyway, I don't intend to stop using my camera. I don't plan to throw it away or stop taking day trips specifically for photo ops. It just feels so selfish not to be able to share something we love so much, yet I don't want to bore folks either. So anyway, I do have a photoblog, as mentioned a few posts ago, just not where that person mentioned. I have sharing with family and friends. I do watch some of the folks here (I am a voyeur you know) Maybe one day things will change.
Originally posted by rugman1969:
[quote=JunieMoon]
Stop worrying how good it would have done. That may be one of the reasons you are so discouraged. Just because it doesn't do well, doesn't mean it's not a good shot. |
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10/24/2007 02:23:08 PM · #43 |
DPC is not the be all and end all of photography.
I've had a couple of shots win contests elsewhere (in the real world) but were buried in the 5's on this site.
Message edited by author 2007-10-24 14:23:39.
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10/24/2007 02:26:23 PM · #44 |
A low score doesn't exactly mean the picture is good, bad or indifferent. Just that it isn't popular with the people who happened to vote on it.
Using the scores as some indicator of intrinsic value isn't very useful, unless your goal is to make popular pictures.
If you want to become a photographer who can appeal to the particular aesthetic of those who participate and vote at DPC, then your score is a good guide. But that's about it. There's a whole range of other goals, directions and motivations for taking pictures that you could easily consider 'good' that have nothing to do with widespread peer group appeal.
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10/24/2007 02:33:40 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
A low score doesn't exactly mean the picture is good, bad or indifferent. Just that it isn't popular with the people who happened to vote on it. |
So true... voters have been known to knock down images that are perfect technically and compositionally, even if they meet the challenge and have been known to favor images that are technical nightmares.
One of my top scoring images, is what I would consider a technical wreck, yet voters really liked it.
It's certainly not th highest quality image in my challenge entries portfolio. It suffers from lighting issues, my reflection in the bulb and sharpening artifacts. Yet there it is, my second highest scoring image and highest placing image.
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10/24/2007 02:35:42 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
A low score doesn't exactly mean the picture is good, bad or indifferent. Just that it isn't popular with the people who happened to vote on it.
Using the scores as some indicator of intrinsic value isn't very useful, unless your goal is to make popular pictures.
If you want to become a photographer who can appeal to the particular aesthetic of those who participate and vote at DPC, then your score is a good guide. But that's about it. There's a whole range of other goals, directions and motivations for taking pictures that you could easily consider 'good' that have nothing to do with widespread peer group appeal. |
It is still hard to keep this in mind. Actually, my motivation is taking on a different direction. What do I love? Farmlife. What do I enjoy shooting most? Farmlife. I look at photographers like Dorothea Lange and even Curtis. Lange took shots of migrant workers because they touched her. During that time her shots may have held little meaning because migrant workers were common. Now her shots are so historically valuable because she took a segment of the population that is now not as prevalent. Curtis went and did portraits of Native peoples because maybe he got paid, maybe the govt wanted a record, whatever, but nobody has ever done shots like him.
I see the farm life in Connecticut dying by acres every year. I want to take photos of it because it may not be here. That is my motivation. I am approaching farm families that are still working the land so I can do portraits of them, using Curtis as my guide. Popular? Not so with dp. Valuable? To me and maybe historical societies in the future. Worthwhile? Most definitely.
My Other Site
Message edited by author 2007-10-24 14:42:36. |
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10/24/2007 02:42:51 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by MAK:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Simms:
But never once (from what I recall) did she moan about it. |
Of course she did. And so have you. It's only human. Give her a break. |
She asked for peoples opinion, and she got it. that is a good enough 'break' don't you think? if people ask for opinions then don't like the reaction they get then maybe it is best not to ask in the first place. |
Look at what I quoted. Simms misrepresenting sherpet in order to make JunieMoon feel inferior. That is not what JunieMoon asked for. |
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10/24/2007 03:49:54 PM · #48 |
| For years i tried to get good at golf. I was obsessed with it. But then it got frustrating and stressful. The best thing i ever did was put the clubs in the attic. |
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10/24/2007 03:50:05 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
A low score doesn't exactly mean the picture is good, bad or indifferent. Just that it isn't popular with the people who happened to vote on it.
Using the scores as some indicator of intrinsic value isn't very useful, unless your goal is to make popular pictures.
If you want to become a photographer who can appeal to the particular aesthetic of those who participate and vote at DPC, then your score is a good guide. But that's about it. There's a whole range of other goals, directions and motivations for taking pictures that you could easily consider 'good' that have nothing to do with widespread peer group appeal. |
For example: your shot would probably be great for a wildlife magazine. Just because dpc members didn't find it to be quite the top outstanding photo, doesn't mean it isn't a good shot. As was stated before, DPC is not the end all of photography. It is merely a stepping stone in the large world of photography. The majority of people may like certain shots, so those shots will always be voted higher than others. Don't take it personally, no one here sees a photo the exact same way you do. |
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10/24/2007 03:54:44 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
For years i tried to get good at golf. I was obsessed with it. But then it got frustrating and stressful. The best thing i ever did was put the clubs in the attic. |
LOL
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