Flora II Challenge Results Recalculated

10/21/2007 01:57:19 PM · #102

Originally posted by Atropos:

Wouldnt surprise me if thats the way it goes, would save a lot of headaches for SC.. Its not that far down the road where all Basic challenges will need to be shot in JPG and not RAW. mark my words.

10/21/2007 02:37:48 PM · #103

i don't think it's as simple as just pushing the shutter and let everything fly. in this case it was a violation, but that's gotten me thinking about the entire photo processing series of events.

consider canons ' picture styles '. those can be set before pushing the shutter.

now imagine there is a motion blur ' picture style ' ( sharp focus based on focus point selected - blur fading in a chosen direction tied to the the other focus points ). i set that before i take the shot. inadvertantly, or intentionally applying an effect to the photo via a processing algolrithm that the camera has pre-programmed - yet the same effect ( applied in photoshop ) wouldn't be allowed under the editing ruleset for the challenge i intend to enter the photo in.

that void needs to be plugged...

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 14:42:35.

10/21/2007 03:04:02 PM · #104

Originally posted by soup:

imagine there is a motion blur ' picture style ' ( sharp focus based on focus point selected - blur fading in a chosen direction tied to the the other focus points ).

Some people would consider a Lens Baby exactly that. You could also attach a physical star filter, fog filter or a few dozen others to your lens to create a special effect that wouldn't be allowed if you created it in PS. So? You can already create a shallow DOF look with a DSLR and fast lens that would require selective PS blurring with most point and shoot cameras. We each must do what we can with the tools and rules available to us.

"Basic Editing permits overall adjustments to help polish your captured image. These rules are intended to allow you to fine tune your entry and correct basic imperfections in exposure, contrast, color, etc." Creating a star filter or motion blur in PS doesn't fall under the umbrella of polishing your captured image, and the workarounds are merely side effects of a tools-based set of rules. It's been that way since version 1 of the Basic rules, but allowing all effects or judging when a legal tool becomes an illegal effect each present their own set of potential problems. For the third time in this thread alone: WE KNOW. WE'RE DISCUSSING IT!

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 15:07:52.

10/21/2007 03:06:50 PM · #105

a filter/lens choice is different than an in camera effect...

simplify...

i'm discussing it too ;}

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 15:08:07.

10/21/2007 03:12:10 PM · #106

i choose to shoot tri-x BW film and develop it in a color chem bath. > that's an out of camera choice.

i choose to shoot tri-x 400 and set the cameras' film speed at 800. > that's in camera choice.

you see what i am getting at?

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 15:15:18.

10/21/2007 03:13:04 PM · #107

Originally posted by soup:

a filter/lens choice is different than an in camera effect...

I disagree, but it's a moot point. The editing rules place limits on POST processing, and speculating what some as-yet unavailable camera feature may allow under the current rules is pointless. Like in-camera overlays, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

10/21/2007 03:16:49 PM · #108

i say cross it now. and disallow in-camera effects altogether - outside of sharpen, contrast, saturation,color space, and color temp.

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 15:17:20.

10/21/2007 03:17:53 PM · #109

Originally posted by soup:

Good for you. I choose to shoot with a digital camera that records EXIF data and, while we might both get identical results, only one of those is legal for DPC.

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 15:18:17.

10/21/2007 03:27:39 PM · #110

well - whatever. it isn't a ' moot ' point. it's an aside to the current DQ debate - it should have been DQ'd...

the allowable capabilities of a given camera need to be in line with the post processing capabilities allowed by the rule set of a given challenge.

to simplify the whole thing. don't allow in-camera effects filters.

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 15:29:06.

10/21/2007 04:09:10 PM · #111

Originally posted by soup:

the allowable capabilities of a given camera need to be in line with the post processing capabilities allowed by the rule set of a given challenge.

If that's your contention, then a physical star filter on the lens should be no different. A filter applied WHILE you take the shot is, by definition, not post processing.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

10/21/2007 04:32:45 PM · #112

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by routerguy666:
If the soft focus effect used by the camera is merely a faded gaussian blur, then what difference does it make if it happens in post-processing via photoshop or the camera itself. The effect is legal. It's application is legal. Which microprocessor applies it after the image is captured hardly seems relevant to the discussion.

the effect could not be reproduced with GB and Fade (we tried it), so the only legal method to get this result was not used.

Thanks for the explanation. Sorry I was 'ranting', but if it didn't take 2 days of beating around the bush to answer the first frigging question I asked then maybe it wouldn't seem like I wasn't letting the point go for god's sake. Is the in-camera effect just a faded gauss blur - answer: no. Jesus christ.

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 16:34:29.

10/21/2007 07:12:25 PM · #113

is the ' in camera ' effect applied before or after the shutter is pressed?

Originally posted by scalvert:

If that's your contention, then a physical star filter on the lens should be no different. A filter applied WHILE you take the shot is, by definition, not post processing.

MikeJ

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

10/21/2007 07:19:25 PM · #114

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by soup:
the allowable capabilities of a given camera need to be in line with the post processing capabilities allowed by the rule set of a given challenge.

If that's your contention, then a physical star filter on the lens should be no different. A filter applied WHILE you take the shot is, by definition, not post processing.

Ok, I think I get it... if you put the filter on the lens before you take the picture, it's ok. If you take the picture and it's a long exposure and you put the filter one while the exposure is going on, it's ok. Got it. Uh, one other question... how long after the picture is taken do you have to wait before you put a filter on your lens and not be DQ'ed? Is it best to wait till after the voting starts or after the challenge is over?

Mike

;)

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

10/21/2007 07:32:05 PM · #115

Originally posted by soup:

is the ' in camera ' effect applied before or after the shutter is pressed?

In this case, you apparently select a picture you've already taken and then apply the effect from the camera's menu.

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

10/21/2007 07:45:21 PM · #116

Originally posted by MikeJ:

Why do you care? People who actually enter challenges here have legitimate concerns that don't need to be mired in such manure.

10/21/2007 09:10:51 PM · #117

you don't put it ( the filter ) on after........

Originally posted by MikeJ:

10/21/2007 09:12:30 PM · #118

why don't you care?

Originally posted by dudephil:

Why do you care?

Message edited by author 2007-10-21 21:12:41.

MikeJ

Canon EOS-1D Mark II