Flora II Challenge Results Recalculated

10/20/2007 11:04:42 AM · #1

The image formerly in second place has been disqualified for the use of an effects filter in Basic Editing. Congratulations to the new yellow ribbon winner,

madcrabber.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/20/2007 11:17:41 AM · #2

She said the filter was in camera. Did she misrepresent?

Canon EF 200mm f/2.8 L II USM Lens

10/20/2007 11:48:01 AM · #3

It was indeed an in-camera filter; however, it was applied during post-processing and not "while photographing the entry."

skewsme

Canon EOS-6D

10/20/2007 12:44:16 PM · #4

That rule is not so easy to interpret. Seems like further explanation and clarification is warranted.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

10/20/2007 01:29:19 PM · #5

Originally posted by skewsme:

That rule is not so easy to interpret. Seems like further explanation and clarification is warranted.

I agree and disagree. Weird huh?

Here is the rule:

use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry, with the exception of combining multiple captures in-camera.

I definitely interpret that meaning you can use any feature only before/while pressing the shutter button but I can see where it might be a problem if someone was just skimming over the rules. An extra line of "this does not include using features of your camera for post processing" wouldn't hurt.

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 13:29:50.

10/20/2007 01:33:18 PM · #6

Originally posted by L2:

It was indeed an in-camera filter; however, it was applied during post-processing and not "while photographing the entry."

So, based on this, in a minimal editing, straight-from-camera challenge, you CANNOT use the camera's B/W mode, correct?

R.

10/20/2007 01:37:35 PM · #7

You could use the B/W mode if you set the camera to that mode before you press the shutter.

If your camera allows you to "convert" a shot to B/W "after the fact" it is essentially post-processing.

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

10/20/2007 01:39:06 PM · #8

Originally posted by dudephil:

Originally posted by skewsme:
That rule is not so easy to interpret. Seems like further explanation and clarification is warranted.

I agree and disagree. Weird huh?

Here is the rule:

use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry, with the exception of combining multiple captures in-camera.

I definitely interpret that meaning you can use any feature only before/while pressing the shutter button but I can see where it might be a problem if someone was just skimming over the rules. An extra line of "this does not include using features of your camera for post processing" wouldn't hurt.

When processing an image in RAW, one is literally processing the image "out of the camera" after the shutter button has been pressed. Does this mean that RAW images are not eligible for Basic challenges?

10/20/2007 01:41:31 PM · #9

Originally posted by L2:

You could use the B/W mode if you set the camera to that mode before you press the shutter.

If your camera allows you to "convert" a shot to B/W "after the fact" it is essentially post-processing.

That's an interesting distinction, inasmuch as the actual captured image is color, and the color is converted by the camera software during in-camera PP.

So what you're saying is basically that if you are shooting JPG and make an irrevocable decision before pressing the shutter, that's OK? Since you can't change it?

Meaning that in the case of the soft-focus filter, IF it were possible (I don't know if it is) to specify "soft focus" in the menu for this particular shot BEFORE pressing the shutter release, then this would have been OK?

R.

R.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/20/2007 01:42:18 PM · #10

RAW images are eligible for Basic Editing challenges, not for Minimal Editing challenges.

RAW conversions are not the same as applying an effects filter.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

10/20/2007 01:42:22 PM · #11

Originally posted by sfalice:

As long as they're legal edits, it's OK. Sharpening during RAW conversion would be fine in Basic, while adding a vignette would not. The point here was that applying a soft focus filter is not allowed in post-processing, and it doesn't matter where that post processing takes place.

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 13:45:25.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

10/20/2007 01:42:48 PM · #12

Originally posted by sfalice:

Does this mean that RAW images are not eligible for Basic challenges?

RAW images are eligible for basic editing challenges - as long as the post processing is legal. If the dq'd image had used an in camera feature that adjusted the saturation or sharpness this image would still be on the front page. They used a post processing step that isn't legal in basic. No matter whether it's done in camera or not, it's still illegal post processing.

10/20/2007 01:43:10 PM · #13

Originally posted by sfalice:

That;'s sort of what I am leading up to :-)

R.

ETA: Never mind :-)

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 13:45:37.

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

10/20/2007 01:47:22 PM · #14

So to sum it up, the ONLY effects you can use in-camera during basic editing are effects that would be legal if applied during computer PP? Are there ANY exceptions to this?

R.

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

10/20/2007 01:52:27 PM · #15

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

So to sum it up, the ONLY effects you can use in-camera during basic editing are effects that would be legal if applied during computer PP? Are there ANY exceptions to this?

R.

You can do a few extra effects in camera: You can swing around your camera while making the picture, or zoom in/out of the subject, but you can't add zoom/motion blur in post-processing. :)

Otherwise, yes, that's the idea. For basic editing, the only in camera effects you can use are those that would be legal if applied in post-processing.

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 13:54:44.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

10/20/2007 01:53:22 PM · #16

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

So to sum it up, the ONLY effects you can use in-camera during basic editing are effects that would be legal if applied during computer PP? Are there ANY exceptions to this?

R.

I read the rule to say that the ONLY effects you can use for in-camera POST processing are the ones deemed legal no matter what editing software you use. The only thing that you cannot use PRIOR to pressing the shutter is the multiple exposure feature on some cameras.

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 13:53:43.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/20/2007 01:54:53 PM · #17

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

So to sum it up, the ONLY effects you can use in-camera during basic editing are effects that would be legal if applied during computer PP? Are there ANY exceptions to this?

Some cameras can apply an effect during the capture, which are legal. Any effects or spot editing that aren't legal in Basic won't be legal if they're applied in-camera after you take the shot either (merging separate files, adding special effects, applying a clip-art frame, etc.). It would be crazy to allow someone to remove redeye with their camera if the same spot edit isn't allowed on your "other" computer.

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 13:56:07.

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

10/20/2007 02:04:05 PM · #18

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
So to sum it up, the ONLY effects you can use in-camera during basic editing are effects that would be legal if applied during computer PP? Are there ANY exceptions to this?

Some cameras can apply an effect during the capture, which are legal.

But HOW do you make this distinction? Can you give me an example of an effect applied "during" the capture, rather than in the camera's "processing" of the captured information?

R.

see

Canon PowerShot S95

10/20/2007 02:04:33 PM · #19

damn I'm a slow typest.

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 14:06:38.

trevytrev

Canon EOS-5D

10/20/2007 02:04:34 PM · #20

I never interpetated the rule as such but I think that they are saying that the effect coming from the camera has to take place at the time of the shutter depression. So if you take the picture with the camera and then apply an in camera feature or filter, that would not be legal under the challenge rule set, then it is also considered illegal coming from the camera. If that same filter or feature is applied as the picture is taken then it would be considered legal. I have no idea how they can tell if it was before or after the capture but I'm sure it is recorded in the EXIF data.

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 14:06:14.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

10/20/2007 02:08:12 PM · #21

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

But HOW do you make this distinction? Can you give me an example of an effect applied "during" the capture, rather than in the camera's "processing" of the captured information?

R.

DURING - Go through menu, select option, take picture.

POST PROCESSING - Take picture, go through menu, select option.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/20/2007 02:09:26 PM · #22

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by scalvert:
Some cameras can apply an effect during the capture, which are legal.

But HOW do you make this distinction?

Effects applied after the capture result in altered EXIF data. The original file required for validation would not have the effect, so it's really not that hard to figure out that something was applied in post processing. An example of a legal in-camera effect might be something like an orange filter in B&W mode.

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 14:10:05.

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

10/20/2007 02:09:48 PM · #23

nm :)

Message edited by author 2007-10-20 14:15:44.