Enforce "Nude" flag on voting please...WARNING

10/19/2007 01:45:23 AM · #276

Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by ursula:
He, he, no I don't think it quite happens like that. But even if it did, I think a "1", especially a "1" with a comment, would be preferable to having some category of images not even appear during voting.

It is true that nudes get more than their share of low votes, but by the same token they also get more than their share of high votes, both of the extremes for pretty much the same reasons. It sorta balances out in the end. But it is important that all images be treated the same way by those presenting them for voting, regardless of the prejudices of the voters.

[edited spelling :) ]

With that comment, you've essentially revived what everyone seems to be opposing. Someone forcing someone else's values upon them as they are some higher moral authority or some deeply insightful governor. You state that it is important for everyone to see the images and treat them the same way. With that, have YOU not imposed your values upon others? Is that any different and how is it more right than being given an opportunity to filter what you choose to vote on? And regarding the low votes given to nudes, we at DPC know there are no such things as trolls. ;-)

No, you misinterpret what I said. What I said is that it important for those presenting the images (the site, DPC) to give the same opportunity to all images, all photographers participating in the challenge. It is up to the voters to look at them/vote on them, or not, their choice. As for my values, you don't have the slightest idea what they are since I didn't publish them, although if you take a look at my portfolio you might get a bit of an idea about it. :)

As for trolls, they only live under bridges, but they have laptops.

Message edited by author 2007-10-19 01:51:15.

10/19/2007 01:48:38 AM · #277

Originally posted by _eug:

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by MikeJ:

.... And even if nothing changes, respect of others should still be given... by all sides of any issue.

Mike

And that is another reason why I think it is so important to make all images entered to a challenge available the same way during voting: respect for the photographers entering the images. They all deserve the same respect for their images during the voting stage from those presenting the images. DPC doesn't prohibit images of nudes. There is no reason to treat nudes any different during the voting stage than let's say flowers or black/whites.

This is the thing that bothers me with those 'folks' who use the Christian argument. Respect your neighbor, right? Just because he chooses a different lifestyle, doesn't mean he's not your neighbor. You still RESPECT HIM, otherwise stop calling yourself a Christian.

Damn did I just send this thread to rant? I guess it borders on such...

I am a Christian. I believe in Christ as my Lord and Saviour, and I try to love and respect my neighbour, all of them, even the old lady a couple houses down the road who keeps wanting me to go out for tea with her and I'm such a terrible loner and absolutely hate going out with anyone for tea or anything else.

But about your statement, I don't quite understand what you were trying to say :)

10/19/2007 01:50:07 AM · #278

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

You know, Ursula and I are about as far apart in styles and subject matter as two artists can get. Yet, we openly share mutual admiration of one another's work.

Sometimes, I look at her work and wish I could somehow merge it with my own.

Good art, is good art, no matter the subject matter or style. Why try to shut the doors on some art?

:)

That's very true.

10/19/2007 01:57:26 AM · #279

Originally posted by ursula:

But about your statement, I don't quite understand what you were trying to say :)

I think he was just trying to outdo me on the porn addiction comment. Bad Eug!

10/19/2007 01:58:50 AM · #280

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by ursula:

But about your statement, I don't quite understand what you were trying to say :)

I think he was just trying to outdo me on the porn addiction comment. Bad Eug!

Ah! OK. I'm calling it a night, you guys behave yourselves now, OK?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/19/2007 02:00:06 AM · #281

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by ursula:

But about your statement, I don't quite understand what you were trying to say :)

I think he was just trying to outdo me on the porn addiction comment. Bad Eug!

Ah! OK. I'm calling it a night, you guys behave yourselves now, OK?

OK, night night... :-)

_eug

Nikon D50

10/19/2007 02:02:19 AM · #282

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by _eug:
This is the thing that bothers me with those 'folks' who use the Christian argument. Respect your neighbor, right? Just because he chooses a different lifestyle, doesn't mean he's not your neighbor. You still RESPECT HIM, otherwise stop calling yourself a Christian.

Damn did I just send this thread to rant? I guess it borders on such...

I am a Christian. I believe in Christ as my Lord and Saviour, and I try to love and respect my neighbour, all of them, even the old lady a couple houses down the road who keeps wanting me to go out for tea with her and I'm such a terrible loner and absolutely hate going out with anyone for tea or anything else.

But about your statement, I don't quite understand what you were trying to say :)

I'm trying to say that through life I run into professed "good Christians" who have not been as tolerant as you. I thank you for being as tolerant as you are. It's one of the qualities I love about you. It's the ones that brow beat others that make it bad for the rest. That's all I'm saying.

Leroy, back to your corner! ;)

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/19/2007 02:04:25 AM · #283

I love Ursula more!

Ivo

10/19/2007 02:05:29 AM · #284

Originally posted by ursula:

It is also up to the forum participants to determine which threads they choose to view is it not? Then why can you disable certain forum categories and not certain images? Ursula, you're right, I have no idea about your values and that is not the issue. The issue as I see it is why is it so unimaginable that someone should be able to choose the content matter viewed on this site? I can certainly block certain threads like "Rant" but why not the same filtering for challenge photos? For me, the nudity issue is of no consequence but for a child that surfs the site, it may be. Look at is this way, some women choose to breast feed in public and others do not. Which way should it be and is it appropriate? Hmmm.....tough one to answer. Is what we claim to be art, art for everyone? I guess if you create a half-hearted moral standard by blocking nudity photos on the front page, you'd better be consistent if you leave the door unlocked to the back pages.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

10/19/2007 02:10:06 AM · #285

Originally posted by ursula:

Take her out for tea; take her picture. Just don't show her any nudes. :-) (Well, except for the awesome one by Nico Blue - that one you should show her.)

srdanz

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

10/19/2007 02:12:56 AM · #286

Originally posted by Ivo:

I think that you are either misinterpreting the feature of the site to filter certain forum categories and images, or intentionally swaying the discussion that way.

It is not half-hearted moral standard - it is simply Langdon's decision to cater to a number of loudest complainers without making a sacrifice to the site's core function: challenge participation and voting on it.

Extending this feature to images in voting would jeopardize the voting results, only that and that's all. It has nothing to do with moral standards, if there were any to begin with.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/19/2007 02:16:02 AM · #287

Ivo, it's been said numerous times that it's impossible to do this w/o affecting vote integrity.

I know this thread has been all over the place and into places it should not have gone, but.. THAT is the issue.

Keep in mind, I pretty much quit submitting nudes because of the nude trolls. I'd love to "enlighten" some of those voters. But, this course of action will backfire on its proponents.

Imagine this: I'm not alone in having issues with putting nudes before non-appreciative voters. This feature goes live. More of us are coming out with more and better images. Oops, now we have more nudes.

Now keep this in mind, there are some really good nude photogs on this site in striking distance of ribbons. They will get on the front page with the skewed voting.

If this wasn't a major coding job it would only take about two weeks to prove this to you. You'd all be screaming foul play.

Oh, and Ivo, the adult content forum tag was MY idea. It sorta works. But obviously wasn't the right band-aid for the booboo.

Message edited by author 2007-10-19 02:20:29.

_eug

Nikon D50

10/19/2007 02:21:37 AM · #288

Hehe imagine trying to find out if it's friend voting or nude voting. "Sorry SC, I was just voting all the nudes 9 or 10. Friends? No I have no friends. I just liked the nudes."

Ivo

10/19/2007 02:23:07 AM · #289

Originally posted by srdanz:

Am I swaying it? Just as the argument that trolls do not sway votes seems to come up time and time again, how would we assume the choice not to vote on certain images would have a significant impact on the final outcome? Regarding the site's core function? It has evolved significantly from the time we both originally started participating. Would it be naive to think the DPL league has no effect on voting?? Ummmmm ..... sure.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/19/2007 02:23:10 AM · #290

Originally posted by _eug:

Hehe imagine trying to find out if it's friend voting or nude voting. "Sorry SC, I was just voting all the nudes 9 or 10. Friends? No I have no friends. I just liked the nudes."

I'll be honest. I think I got suspended from voting earlier this year for doing just that :-)

_eug

Nikon D50

10/19/2007 02:27:40 AM · #291

Originally posted by Ivo:

Reread the thread again then. It's been stated how it would affect votes. A couple of times even.

Ivo

10/19/2007 02:35:06 AM · #292

Originally posted by _eug:

Reread the thread again then. It's been stated how it would affect votes. A couple of times even.

Its also been argued over and over again that trolls do not affect the votes. I personally think the "troll" element has far greater impact than the minuscule number of votes that would not be given by those who chose to pass an image by.

Anyhow, we're both wrong and this philosophical debate will have very little bearing on what Langdon chooses to do with his site anyhow. ;-)

srdanz

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

10/19/2007 02:42:34 AM · #293

To me, there is a major difference when you vote on the image because you know who made it (a reference to DPL issues that transpired) and voting on an image that reflects how the image impacted you (voting on an image that rubs you in a wrong way).

To me again, the second reaction is a part of the challenge. The challenge is to meet the requirements and appeal to the voters (if you are aiming for high score).

Both types of voters (friend-voters and "prude-voters") do influence the votes. The former in an illegal way, the latter perfectly legally.

Preventing the first type is something that the site strives to achieve, because it has nothing to do with the image quality and what it entices with the viewers. Removing or in any way influencing the second kind would be just wrong.

Why only nudes I ask again?

roba

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

10/19/2007 02:43:00 AM · #294

i can't believe i just read this entire thread.

and what's worse - it took me until ~post 4009 to figure out what the heck GKG was (thanks for adding the tagline Leroy!)

MQuinn

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 Zuiko Digital Zoom

10/19/2007 02:44:27 AM · #295

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Keep in mind, I pretty much quit submitting nudes because of the nude trolls. I'd love to "enlighten" some of those voters. But, this course of action will backfire on its proponents.

I told ya, Safety glasses with grinding would add to that one:o)

Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D

10/19/2007 02:54:17 AM · #296

Originally posted by MQuinn:

I told ya, Safety glasses with grinding would add to that one:o)

Yup, yup... shoulda listened :-D

LanceW

Nikon Z9

10/19/2007 03:03:03 AM · #297

Originally posted by travis_cooper:

I don't think there is anything new to add, except that it has been driving me crazy to see people misspelling ridiculous, there is a spell check when you make your post, use it. It isn't rediculous, it is ridiculous. Sorry, I just had to throw that in.

Yeah, that really helped the thread. Gotta say, I'm glad I "aint" one of ur kids...

redeculus....

;-)

taterbug

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

10/19/2007 03:05:18 AM · #298

First off, I am pro-nude. I very much enjoy well done artistic nudes, I think the human body is quite beautiful and incredible. But I can appreciate and respect those that do not wish to see nudity, for whatever reason.
But....I am very, very anti-cherry picking. I have participated in discussions before, and wish that thumbnails were not available at all once a person starts voting until they are done. But they are, and cherry picking goes on. I hear people state that they do it frequently. People in this very thread have stated that they do. IMO, cherry picking can skew voting, so there fore, voting already gets skewed as long as cherry picking is allowed here. So I would say, fine, let the few people who do not wish to see nudes have them stay hidden.

However, I do have an idea at a solution (especially if cherry picking were no longer allowed): If a person goes to vote that does have their anti-nudity flag on, if there are any photos flagged in that challenge at all, a warning pops up and states that 'Warning-there are nude photos in this challenge, you WILL see nudity if you vote on this challenge.' or something like that, or even as far as not allowing voting on that challenge if their filter is on.