Are our product ads okay at DPC - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

10/15/2007 12:30:18 AM · #26

Couple points on this:

I'd hate to see DPC become a bunch of posts advertising mortgage brokers, real estate agents, life coaches, on-line porn sites, consulting sevices, penis enlargement, my top secret photo editing procedures... or anything else people do to earn money.

Thus my $.02 is I'd rather not see any advertising on the site other then prints which are actually sold through the site or simple links to you external business on your profile.

But if DPC does want to allow advertising, if you allow some do you have to allow all? If you want to allow any I'd think you'd need some documented rules. Is it fair to allow one person and delete another's ad without documented rules?

And... I'd hate to see people charging for their advice and forums full of advertising become the norm at DPC.

Message edited by author 2007-10-15 00:31:33.

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

10/15/2007 12:32:06 AM · #27

Originally posted by LoudDog:

DITTO!!

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

10/15/2007 12:36:09 AM · #28

Originally posted by LoudDog:

And... I'd hate to see people charging for their advice and forums full of advertising become the norm at DPC.

This is what I am thinking all along, that are we goign to pay for tutorial section to people who wrote it, since they spent time and effort doign it. If yes, then where it is all going to lead us.
Or does this method of 'sharing' our knowledge a good idea.

Nikon D200

10/15/2007 12:36:49 AM · #29

Originally posted by LoudDog:

...
Thus my $.02 is I'd rather not see any advertising on the site other then prints which are actually sold through the site or simple links to you external business on your profile....

What about forum signatures? Do you think it should be allowed there?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

10/15/2007 12:37:24 AM · #30

Originally posted by L2:

Originally posted by LoudDog:
...
Thus my $.02 is I'd rather not see any advertising on the site other then prints which are actually sold through the site or simple links to you external business on your profile....

What about forum signatures? Do you think it should be allowed there?

humm good point.

taterbug

Nikon D300

10/15/2007 12:55:04 AM · #31

I think we should all get sponsors. Make our avatars big enough to put little jumpsuits and caps on them with all our sponsor patches. Then all of our forum posts should go like:

"Yeah, the Wonderbread Canon 40D was running great this challenge, but with the weather conditions out there, we just couldn't get the aperture dialed in right. But the team will be working hard back in the studio, and I'm sure we'll have a good run in next weeks challenge."

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

10/15/2007 01:01:23 AM · #32

Originally posted by L2:

What about forum signatures? Do you think it should be allowed there?

Sure, as long as Langdon recodes sig blocks to explicitly remind people they can turn off seeing other's sigs in their preferences.

fotomann_forever

10/15/2007 01:28:08 AM · #33

Originally posted by taterbug:

:-D
I hate that Wonderbread camera, go Budweiser 350XT!

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/15/2007 01:48:01 AM · #34

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by taterbug:
I think we should all get sponsors. Make our avatars big enough to put little jumpsuits and caps on them with all our sponsor patches. Then all of our forum posts should go like:

"Yeah, the Wonderbread Canon 40D was running great this challenge, but with the weather conditions out there, we just couldn't get the aperture dialed in right. But the team will be working hard back in the studio, and I'm sure we'll have a good run in next weeks challenge."

:-D
I hate that Wonderbread camera, go Budweiser 350XT!

Finally Mattel Barbie camera will have some competition. :P

EyeTrap

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM

10/15/2007 02:33:41 AM · #35

If a special forum is created , it will have to be monitored. I can see it quickly becoming abused, especially if word of mouth spreads that dpc allows advertising. Won't be spam like email since it takes a little more effort to do but could have users frequently posting/bumping their threads etc to where it becomes a useless forum.

Some thoughts to limit this

1) could limit posts to one per user per day/week
2) limit the advertising posted to be strictly related to photography (printing, equipment, repairs, etc)... no mortgages etc as another poster pointed out.

With regards to signatures, advertising is already being done with professionals having links to their sites. I think so far it hasn't been abused and most are being self responsible.

There is that slippery slope though... once advertising starts, no matter what form, it will be hard to go back or limit.

ralph

Nikon Z9

10/15/2007 07:32:31 AM · #36

advert forum .. good idea
being able to ignore an advert forum - great idea
the default for new users - ignore

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

10/15/2007 07:39:39 AM · #37

Originally posted by zxaar:

So where do these types of thread belong.
I know SC is considering this issue. So wish to see what others feel about it.

IMHO they dont belong on this site at all. One of the benefits of being a paid member and logging in is so I dont have to see those F'ed up ads that others get to see. I dont want to see them from other members now either. If I want commercials I'll watch TV.

MattO

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

10/15/2007 07:45:23 AM · #38

Originally posted by L2:

I've voiced my opinions, usually to def SC ears, about non-members selling their items in their signatures before. IMHO selling on this site should be limited to the Buy/Sell forum and to what is allowed there now. It works as it is why change it now? Prints, simple links in the signature, and links to webpages is OK. But imagine how big some of the signatures would be if we allowed this. I know you can turn them off, but why should I have to when we can simply limit the size and content.

MattO

10/15/2007 07:50:35 AM · #39

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by zxaar:
So where do these types of thread belong.
I know SC is considering this issue. So wish to see what others feel about it.

IMHO they dont belong on this site at all. One of the benefits of being a paid member and logging in is so I dont have to see those F'ed up ads that others get to see. I dont want to see them from other members now either. If I want commercials I'll watch TV.

MattO

Yes, I agree with you completely here. I also think they do not belong to this site at all. But apparantly if we point this out, we would be called rude. This is how I am feeling from this whole day's events and posts.

Message edited by author 2007-10-15 07:51:33.

danielv

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

10/15/2007 07:56:22 AM · #40

Originally posted by levyj413:

How about:
1) Rename "Buy/Sell" to "Buy/Sell Equipment."
2) Create a new member-only forum "Sell Services and Products'
3) You have to be a member, period. No time delay - you pay your $25, you can post. That's self-enforcing, so no additional SC burden. It might also attract some new paying members.

Try it out for a while, and if there's too many posts in that forum on the home page crowding out normal discussion, think about it again.

Alternatively, create a business section of the home page forum listings to keep the ads separate from the discussions, and move buy/sell there, too.

Yes, you can filter those forums out, but I'd bet a tiny percentage of members knows that.

Message edited by author 2007-10-15 08:05:24.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

10/15/2007 08:11:28 AM · #41

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by L2:

Originally posted by LoudDog:
...
Thus my $.02 is I'd rather not see any advertising on the site other then prints which are actually sold through the site or simple links to you external business on your profile....

What about forum signatures? Do you think it should be allowed there?

I've voiced my opinions, usually to def SC ears, about non-members selling their items in their signatures before. IMHO selling on this site should be limited to the Buy/Sell forum and to what is allowed there now. It works as it is why change it now? Prints, simple links in the signature, and links to webpages is OK. But imagine how big some of the signatures would be if we allowed this. I know you can turn them off, but why should I have to when we can simply limit the size and content.

MattO

I agree.

As for the general idea of advertising/soliciting for business I'd prefer not to see this escalate at DPC, however, if it IS going to be allowed then put that stuff in a separate forum area that can be hidden via user preferences.

pamelasue

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/15/2007 08:33:50 AM · #42

I support both Jeff and Nicolas' ideas on this ... I don't have signatures turned on (find them VERY irritating) but don't think that anyone should be allowed to promote their products that way ... except for DPC prints and a website link ... I'd really hate to see DPC turn into a bunch of ads by people who have zero interest in this site other than to make a quick buck ...

Another thought to expand on Jeff's ideas ... consider making the "sell products and service" forum section posts NEVER available on the home page ... make member go searching for products if they're so inclined ...

I have no issues with Joey's post because he was allowed to sell his first DVD here ... and the fact that we all knew the second one was coming ... there were/are a lot of members here that were looking forward to the release of the second one ...

Originally posted by mouten:

I support jeffrey's proposal. Including the part that says you try and change if abused.

Except a time delay might be a good idea like having been a paid member for the last 6 months.

The rules of the "sell services and products forum" could include things along the lines of: only active members can post, ie accounts opened for the sole intent to promote products could be canceled by SC.

You could also consider (if technically manageable) to restrict the number of threads that one member can start (say for example 1 per quarter or whatever appropriate).

Originally posted by levyj413:
How about:
1) Rename "Buy/Sell" to "Buy/Sell Equipment."
2) Create a new member-only forum "Sell Services and Products'
3) You have to be a member, period. No time delay - you pay your $25, you can post. That's self-enforcing, so no additional SC burden. It might also attract some new paying members.

Try it out for a while, and if there's too many posts in that forum on the home page crowding out normal discussion, think about it again.

Alternatively, create a business section of the home page forum listings to keep the ads separate from the discussions, and move buy/sell there, too.

Yes, you can filter those forums out, but I'd bet a tiny percentage of members knows that.

danielv

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

10/15/2007 08:49:19 AM · #43

Originally posted by pamelasue:

Another thought to expand on Jeff's ideas ... consider making the "sell products and service" forum section posts NEVER available on the home page ... make member go searching for products if they're so inclined ...

or set it to be hidden on the home page by default (contrary to other forums), and people can make it visible on the home page again if they wish to.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

10/15/2007 09:12:48 AM · #44

I think they should be allowed. I just don't think anyone else should be able to post to them. Put them in a separate forum since it won't be able to be bumped. You will have to go look at the forum. Buy if you wish, don't if you wish. The hostile comments that spring out of jealousy should just not be allowed. Nor should price comparisons. I don't go to Macy's and tell the sales clerk that I won't buy their product because I can get a knock off at Wal-Mart. That's just plain ridiculous. I also wouldn't say I can afford Macy's but just choose not to. That's even more ridiculous. Macy's could care less about my finances.

Since this is in reference to JoeyL, I will say this... a lot of people encouraged the making and selling of the first DVD. Everyone who bought it was more than happy with what they bought. They were supporting a "cause" and a young up coming photographer was going to be able to afford better equipment. Then the big green monster came along, hey, that "kid" made it! Why not me? I helped him. Blah, blah, blah. Grow up people!

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

10/15/2007 09:52:07 AM · #45

Originally posted by Kelli:

Everyone who bought it was more than happy with what they bought. They were supporting a "cause" and a young up coming photographer was going to be able to afford better equipment.

You are correct that people did buy just to help. Because we (DPC) are helping society.

Originally posted by Kelli:

Then the big green monster came along, hey, that "kid" made it! Why not me? I helped him. Blah, blah, blah. Grow up people!

You are little wrong here. Nobody is asking any favours from Joey because they helped him. In fact they are not asking anything.
I did not want to say anything personal about your this kid. But I think it would be fair to mention this, now since what you said is said by many people.
You see this kid made some money first time. DPC encouraged it. Second time though it is different. It is a product from a person who is taking it professionally. If you want to learn what I know you have to pay.
Yes this is professionism. The advice is not free.
So why would you get a free or cheap publicity. Why would you be allowed to advertise here.
Can not have it both ways.

Personally: I feel sad to see this type of attitude. Why? Because I am very helping person. I would never tell anybody that you have to pay to know what I know (though in make perfect sense in business world).
I spent around 15 years learning painting. I went to museums for 2.5 years every weekend. Spent hours learning techniques of great master. But if someone asks me, I would never say pay me if you want to learn. No I can not fall to that level. I am helping soul, and I am proud of it. Same thing about my engineering. In last three years I have helped at least 200 people with their projects and work. But thought of money never ever crossed me.

This kid has shown professionism in asking money. He has right to do so. But then we also have right to ask whether it is really alright to adertise like this. and earn money.
If it were not all about money I have no problem.
I wish him all the best. Just that I do not want to be him.

/Arjun

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

10/15/2007 09:52:33 AM · #46

Please stay on topic.

This is not a discussion about Joey or his dvd, or the thread that was about that. It is about having you (or ya'll, since I'm in the South) help us, the SC, come up with some workable guidelines about services and products for sell.

LoudDog

10/15/2007 09:53:50 AM · #47

Originally posted by L2:

I can, and do, turn those off. Thus I don't think it's a big deal. Links or non annoying clickable ads in a profile or signature isn't a big deal to me. I just don't want numerous posts asking to buy this product or hire me for that.

10/15/2007 10:01:11 AM · #48

Originally posted by karmat:

Please stay on topic.

Sorry about that.

LoudDog

10/15/2007 10:06:39 AM · #49

Originally posted by zxaar:

Originally posted by LoudDog:

And... I'd hate to see people charging for their advice and forums full of advertising become the norm at DPC.

This is what I am thinking all along, that are we goign to pay for tutorial section to people who wrote it, since they spent time and effort doign it. If yes, then where it is all going to lead us.
Or does this method of 'sharing' our knowledge a good idea.

This is actually my biggest concern. You expressed it better then I did. Why should I make a tutorial or share my opinion/knowledge for free in the forums when I can make a DVD, charge $300 for it, and push it on you instread?

Maybe all the great photogs here should make DVD's and when ever someone asks a question they can all push their products rather then help. Or us less talented can re-sell other people's DVD's for a commission!

(note: I have all the respect in the world for Joey and commend him on his entrepreneurial endeavor, I just don't think this is the place to advertise it.)

david_c

Canon EOS-7D