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10/11/2007 01:35:42 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
You own full editorial control over your image, but you don't own editorial control over my opinion of your image. |
I can't control your opinion, no. But, I can control if your opinion is visible now. But, /I have to throw out the baby with the bath water. It's stupid.
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Isn't censorship in whatever form the ultimate control over opinion?
I don't disaree completely with your idea of the delete comment button, but call it what it is, censorship.
And any venue that allows censorship loses credibility since you are never sure about the content.
A better option might be to have the user choose if he/she wants comments on a portfolio image or not. And let the comments come to the image owner in by PM or email. Just a thought. |
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10/11/2007 01:37:21 PM · #127 |
One of the features of paid membership is the ability to control a DPCPrints store.
Images contained in a DPCPrints portfolio are not subject to comments. |
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10/11/2007 01:39:14 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by karmat:
As it stands, if a comment is truly derogatory, it will be dealt with, as will the "offender." |
It's not always dealt with to the owner's satisfaction. You should not be the final arbiter concerning what is derogatory or harmful to a user, especially since the current "all or nothing" solution (reuploading a picture) is available to us anyway.
Originally posted by karmat:
It is the INTERNET, people are going to have an opinion, and they are going to voice it. If you don't want people commenting on your pictures, don't post them where comments can be left! |
This is an oversimplification of the concern. All the proponents in this thread aren't babies. All can take a genuinely constructive or harshly worded or inane criticism and let it stand. All want the choice the site currently isn't offering, and which other sites do. That's just about the size of it. |
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10/11/2007 01:41:50 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Isn't censorship in whatever form the ultimate control over opinion?
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Censorship is something performed by someone that has power over another, ie a government. You are grossly abusing the word here, my friend.
Is pulling my images, censorship? Because you can't express your opinion on them at all, now. Now, your logic fails, because in your logic, I have exercized the ultimate censorship. I'm not even allowing you to form an opinion, nonetheless state it.
The censorship argument doesn't work, sorry. Try something new.
Message edited by author 2007-10-11 13:44:04.
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10/11/2007 01:44:32 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Isn't censorship in whatever form the ultimate control over opinion? |
Censorship is exercised by governments against mass information, not by individuals against editorialising on their own property. I don't subscribe to the "small 'c'" censorship viewpoint. All the proponents in this thread are not out to rewrite history, they are in favour of editorial control over their photographs. Will some use it to prune out genuine criticism that's disfavourable to their skills? Yes. Do some members use the forums to berate, belittle, and deride the skills of other? Yes, but they still seem to be useful.
Originally posted by scarbrd:
A better option might be to have the user choose if he/she wants comments on a portfolio image or not. And let the comments come to the image owner in by PM or email. Just a thought. |
This is a more convenient of the current "all or nothing" option (reuploading), and isn't really a solution in my view. |
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10/11/2007 01:47:41 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Challenge entries can't be removed from the server. The ToS states they will remain on the server. In theory, they are entered to be judged. So, I have no qualms about challenge entries being left delete button free, including post challenge. |
I just wanted to say I agree with this as well. |
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10/11/2007 01:53:47 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
A better option might be to have the user choose if he/she wants comments on a portfolio image or not. And let the comments come to the image owner in by PM or email. Just a thought. |
Hey. That's a great idea for portfolio images! I mentioned a toggle (receive/don't receive) comment switch earlier but hadn't considered the PM/email idea.
One downside to that is I like to browse the 'Recently Commented' section of the Photos area of DPC and that might not work quite as well with the PM/email option. I guess the photos could still show up. There just wouldn't be any comments to read. :/ |
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10/11/2007 01:54:11 PM · #133 |
Originally posted by silverscreen:
Imo. it's entirely up to the owners of this site how they want to run it and what the users (including paying ones) should be allowed to do - and it's up to the the users if they can live with those rules or not. |
Although this request has nothing to do with site rules, but rather site functionality, you're otherwise abolutely right. And it's up to users to have the courage to ask for changes if they can't live with the way the site works.
The users direct the course of the site. Think of all the recent large (DPL) and small (portfolio paging) site enhancements implemented due to user requests. I would even argue that we have the right to ask for changes that make our experience more enjoyable, and the owners have the responsibility to fairly judge those requests. It would be a lousy place if that didn't happen. Sure, some might be perfectly happy to have the site offered to them as is, with no tweaking according to demand, but the vast majority would not. |
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10/11/2007 01:57:01 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by Louis:
The users direct the course of the site. Think of all the recent large (DPL) and small (portfolio paging) site enhancements implemented due to user requests. I would even argue that we have the right to ask for changes that make our experience more enjoyable, and the owners have the responsibility to fairly judge those requests. It would be a lousy place if that didn't happen. Sure, some might be perfectly happy to have the site offered to them as is, with no tweaking according to demand, but the vast majority would not. |
"...but the vast majority would not."
I was mostly with you up until that last remark. You cannot possibly know what the "vast majority" does or does not want. |
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10/11/2007 02:02:26 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I was mostly with you up until that last remark. You cannot possibly know what the "vast majority" does or does not want. |
Sure you can. You take a poll... you take a sample of the opinions of the community.
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10/11/2007 02:07:32 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I would even argue that we have the right to ask for changes that make our experience more enjoyable, and the owners have the responsibility to fairly judge those requests. It would be a lousy place if that didn't happen. Sure, some might be perfectly happy to have the site offered to them as is, with no tweaking according to demand, but the vast majority would not. |
I agree completely with this statement - and I can even accept a "Delete Comment" button as long as it's only on portfolio pictures.
But, as I said before, I fail to see the logic...
If you are so eager to have this button to get rid of all those nasty comments you (apparently) are receiving, how can you say it's OK if it isn't implemented on challenge entries? The users who find pleasure in rude comments will just make those comments on the challenge entries... |
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10/11/2007 02:10:54 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Perhaps one issue that truly needs to be considered in this instance is that what some consider as opinions could very well be construed as "Libelous" statements by others and subject to litigation. |
A legally libelous statement would violate the site TOS and Forum Rules and would be removed when reported. This is a non-issue. |
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10/11/2007 02:11:37 PM · #138 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I was mostly with you up until that last remark. You cannot possibly know what the "vast majority" does or does not want. |
You don't agree that most people would rather participate at a website that is directed by user requests, and not a website that doesn't change and where requests are ignored? Surprising. You currently participate at a site described by the former whatever your opinion is, however.
Edit: +ly
Message edited by author 2007-10-11 14:15:11. |
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10/11/2007 02:13:15 PM · #139 |
Originally posted by silverscreen:
If you are so eager to have this button to get rid of all those nasty comments you (apparently) are receiving,... |
I never said I received even one comment that needed special treatment. Also, I'm sorry you can't see the logic, but that's my opinion. Delete button for portfolio, but not for challenges. |
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10/11/2007 02:15:30 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I was mostly with you up until that last remark. You cannot possibly know what the "vast majority" does or does not want. |
Sure you can. You take a poll... you take a sample of the opinions of the community. |
That would be a viable way, and it does take place. To speak in general terms, he was making an assumption that knowledge of the "vast majority" was a known entity. |
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10/11/2007 02:17:31 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I was mostly with you up until that last remark. You cannot possibly know what the "vast majority" does or does not want. |
Sure you can. You take a poll... you take a sample of the opinions of the community. |
That would be a viable way, and it does take place. To speak in general terms, he was making an assumption that knowledge of the "vast majority" was a known entity. |
I know, but had to make another plug for a poll :-)
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10/11/2007 02:20:29 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I was mostly with you up until that last remark. You cannot possibly know what the "vast majority" does or does not want. |
You don't agree that most people would rather participate at a website that is directed by user requests, and not a website that doesn't change and where requests are ignored? |
Your request is not being ignored -- just not implimented at this time.
Do you really think a website could function if it had to immediately reformat itself to accomodate every user request?
I'm sure your suggestion will receive its due consideration, as do all things posted to the Web Site Suggestions Forum Section ... reprogramming this site often takes quite a bit of time, even for something less complex than this suggestion. It's not like Langdon can just put a button on the page and that takes care of it.
BTW -- you will be affecting other people's statistics, namely their "Comments Made" number at least ... |
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10/11/2007 02:26:29 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I was mostly with you up until that last remark. You cannot possibly know what the "vast majority" does or does not want. |
Sure you can. You take a poll... you take a sample of the opinions of the community. |
That would be a viable way, and it does take place. To speak in general terms, he was making an assumption that knowledge of the "vast majority" was a known entity. |
I know, but had to make another plug for a poll :-) |
Plug away! :P |
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10/11/2007 02:29:29 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Isn't censorship in whatever form the ultimate control over opinion?
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Censorship is something performed by someone that has power over another, ie a government. You are grossly abusing the word here, my friend. |
Censorship -- the control of the information and ideas circulated within a society. Looks like I nailed it. DPC is a society, and you want control of information and ideas on your portfolio images.
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Is pulling my images, censorship? Because you can't express your opinion on them at all, now. Now, your logic fails, because in your logic, I have exercized the ultimate censorship. I'm not even allowing you to form an opinion, nonetheless state it.
The censorship argument doesn't work, sorry. Try something new. |
Take a breath and try to listen to other opinions on the matter. There is no point in having a discussion if you can't consider the others' point of view.
I stand by what I said, I appreciate where you are coming from on this and I'll leave it to you now.
Peace/Out |
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10/11/2007 02:37:53 PM · #145 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
BTW -- you will be affecting other people's statistics, namely their "Comments Made" number at least ... |
Why? That stat could still represent that a comment was made.
Does my posts stat change if you hide/delete one? I'm genuinely asking a question there.
Does the comments made stat change if SC deletes a comment? Are deleted comments deleted or hidden, now?
Message edited by author 2007-10-11 14:39:00.
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10/11/2007 02:38:39 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I was mostly with you up until that last remark. You cannot possibly know what the "vast majority" does or does not want. |
You don't agree that most people would rather participate at a website that is directed by user requests, and not a website that doesn't change and where requests are ignored? |
Your request is not being ignored -- just not implimented at this time.
Do you really think a website could function if it had to immediately reformat itself to accomodate every user request?
I'm sure your suggestion will receive its due consideration, as do all things posted to the Web Site Suggestions Forum Section ... reprogramming this site often takes quite a bit of time, even for something less complex than this suggestion. It's not like Langdon can just put a button on the page and that takes care of it. |
Sigh... did you read my post carefully?
Edit: If you did, you'd see that I was saying this site is run on its users, that suggestions are apparently taken seriously, and that people have the right to make requests (as opposed to demands). Also, you'll note that I never suggested every request be implemented.
Cripes.
Message edited by author 2007-10-11 14:42:04. |
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10/11/2007 02:41:27 PM · #147 |
Did you guys know that you can ask SC to lock your image from further commenting and we do this a lot more readily than we remove comments that may be offensive to you, but do not violate the ToS? However, once we turn off commenting, we're not going to turn it back on without an overwhelmingly compelling reason. We're not into flip-flopping.
Did you also know that we have tools available that are less harsh than you or us removing the comment, like asking the commenter to reconsider their words (most of the time they do!) and this way, we are not the comment police because we don't require anyone change their comment, but we make a good 'mediator' where tensions may be high.
Overall, the system isn't broken! We have these tools and 99% of the time, they work very well. Nothing else on this site works that well on any given day!
Message edited by author 2007-10-11 14:44:11. |
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10/11/2007 02:43:08 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by frisca:
Overall, the system isn't broken! |
No, but additions and enhancements may make it more appealing. |
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10/11/2007 02:50:02 PM · #149 |
Ahh, here we are again.
14 people for.
23 people against.
9 people insulted in the discussion.
Still no Girls Kissing Girls challenge. |
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10/11/2007 02:50:59 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by frisca:
Overall, the system isn't broken! |
Overall being the key word and yes, I agree. But it could be even more efficient with more user accessible tools.
Which brings me to another question... if SC can delete comments, why would it be hard to implement a user accessible delete button. A function is a function, no matter who initializes it.
Message edited by author 2007-10-11 14:52:35.
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