Creating Personal Style - DPChallenge Forums

09/28/2007 06:52:47 PM · #51

OK, again let me preface by saying - I think these are good images, I just don't like them - it's not a style of work that I want to call my own.

This will make you chuckle, I'm sure, but I generally don't like nature/landscape stuff as much as other things, but I was hoping the convenience of being 5 minutes away would keep me looking for stuff I liked enough to put together a body of work. Before deciding I didn't wish to continue, I took in the neighborhood of 300 images. At first, my "print ready stuff" looked like this:

[thumb]592827[/thumb] [thumb]592828[/thumb] [thumb]592823[/thumb] [thumb]592824[/thumb] [thumb]592825[/thumb] [thumb]592826[/thumb]

While this project was going on, another photographer whom I respect very much,

jdannels, was starting make waves over on //www.onexposure.net - his portfolio over there is awesome (click here).

Looking at his stuff, help convince me that my own stuff lacking (again, personal preference, not everyone is going to love Joe's style ... I do). So I took the image I had and tweaked my photoshopping:

[thumb]592820[/thumb] [thumb]592821[/thumb] [thumb]592822[/thumb]

I like these better. The B&W conversion helps improve the mood of what I wanted to show. Although, I think maybe just muting the colors and adding more contrast could possibly have achieved the same goal ... who knows. In any event, I stopped here ... I just don't like them.

Perhaps an analogy to music will help. To me, the 1st bunch are the B52's, the second set is more Dave Matthews Band, but ultimately I think I'm looking for Linkin Park.

More edgy, more contrast, blacker blacks ... but not gothic or emo.

From the entire project, this is the only shot I really like:

[thumb]592821[/thumb]

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

09/28/2007 06:56:05 PM · #52

I'm headed to the movies with the wife, but thanks in advance for your thoughts ... I'll check back later.

zxaar

09/28/2007 07:04:48 PM · #53

Originally posted by hopper:

Looking over my images over the summer, I've noticed I take a lot of nature/macro shots ... too many actually, but it's convenient to do so, living in the suburbs. There's a certain look or feel to others' work that I'm drawn to which my own photos lack.

I'm looking to change my style.

I have been thinking about almost similar thing. But my stress is not on a particular style. But my stress is more on type of photography.

Now a days I am thinking about this question:
what to shoot?
Bugs, flowers, sun sets all these everybody shoots. And there are plethora of them on internet.

I have now started to think in terms of 'meaningful photography'. something of this sort:
[thumb]589340[/thumb]

Will try to spend time composing something meaningful. (If time permits).

Arjun
ps: Well for the sake of update button I still will be entering uncreative work to DPC challenges.

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

09/28/2007 07:39:39 PM · #54

Originally posted by zxaar:

[
Now a days I am thinking about this question:
what to shoot?
Bugs, flowers, sun sets all these everybody shoots. And there are plethora of them on internet.

Just something I've been thinking about. It seems that no matter what subject comes up (bugs, flowers, nature, kids, animals, pets, nudes, portraits, weddings, whatever) somebody is bound to think that "everybody" does them, so they have to find something different.

A couple things:

First, just because everybody does them -if everybody does them- doesn't mean that everybody does them well, or in a way that is satisfying to both the person doing them and the viewer.

Second, the idea that, if everybody does something, then the thing for them to do is to go do something else, sort of eludes me. Why would anybody think that? Isn't it better to do what you like to do and are good at, what interests you, or even what sells for you, not just something because in your view that's the thing that others are not doing?

Third, things are not meaningful in contrast to something else. What I mean is, a person picture is not meaningful because it is not a bug or a flower - it's meaningful because it communicates with the viewer, it has emotional and visual appeal to the maker and the viewer (something like that). It seems to me that the idea is to put something of yourself into your pictures, something that communicates feelings and emotion, like music, a way to speak with other people. You can do that with people pictures, flower pictures, even with the much overused sunset pictures.

Something else I find very curious. People go around saying, "Oh, flower shots! (or baby, or pet, or whatever) They're easy! Anybody can do that!" Well, if anybody can do that, how come it seems that so many people are having trouble making flower (or baby, or wedding, or candid) shots that work?

In other words, be yourself, HA!!!!

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

09/28/2007 07:47:43 PM · #55

Maybe you're just not passionate enough about the subjects you shoot? If so try shooting other subjects. Are there any causes you feel strongly about? If so find a way to shoot that. Maybe that's all that's missing? I like photographing animals but I wouldn't bother if I didn't have any feelings about their lives and how we treat them. I think if you shoot what you love your style will blossom naturally.

Message edited by author 2007-09-28 19:55:47.

JamesA

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G

09/28/2007 07:49:30 PM · #56

Style comes from inspiration and Practice

zxaar

09/28/2007 08:10:13 PM · #57

Originally posted by ursula:

Third, things are not meaningful in contrast to something else. What I mean is, a person picture is not meaningful because it is not a bug or a flower - it's meaningful because it communicates with the viewer, it has emotional and visual appeal to the maker and the viewer (something like that). It seems to me that the idea is to put something of yourself into your pictures, something that communicates feelings and emotion, like music, a way to speak with other people. You can do that with people pictures, flower pictures, even with the much overused sunset pictures.

Exactly.

Originally posted by ursula:

Something else I find very curious. People go around saying, "Oh, flower shots! (or baby, or pet, or whatever) They're easy! Anybody can do that!" Well, if anybody can do that, how come it seems that so many people are having trouble making flower (or baby, or wedding, or candid) shots that work?

In other words, be yourself, HA!!!!

I agree with you here too. (Sorry I once told you that you should not be always shooting eye-candy flowers).
My point is this, feel free to shoot the same subject as others but think that what are you offering different than others. Or why is the picture you took special.

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

09/28/2007 08:13:46 PM · #58

Originally posted by zxaar:

.... (Sorry I once told you that you should not be always shooting eye-candy flowers).

...

Yeah, I remember quite well. I took your advise seriously, but those stupid flowers just keep popping up in front of my camera! :)

zxaar

09/28/2007 08:22:16 PM · #59

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by zxaar:
.... (Sorry I once told you that you should not be always shooting eye-candy flowers).

...

Yeah, I remember quite well. I took your advise seriously, but those stupid flowers just keep popping up in front of my camera! :)

I felt (still feel so) that a photographer of your caliber could do pretty amazing things, if he/she applies. So I wished to say that to you.

Believe me when I submitted this to free study:

I was thinking about what I said to you. Flowers are not my style (in fact I have no style). This is only probably one of the few I shot.

ralph

Nikon Z9

09/28/2007 08:22:26 PM · #60

seeing a style in a large body (/ history) of work is easy
after looking at thousands of images at DPC & elsewhere you can see themes reoccurring with some people ..
(certainly shows in my best DPC pics )

though it is easy to sit in ones comfort zone.. everyone needs to stretch which is why DPC works ,, it makes some (not all) try to reach different goals than the usual ..

some people do very well at shooting bugs/flowers/pretty girls or people with character/ sunsets /etc .. .. but not many can do all of them

enough .. i have to go shoot a pretty girl holding a baby who is holding a flower with a bug on it before the sunsets and i still can see the waterfall ....

na.. just another crystal ball ;) ..

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

09/28/2007 09:04:57 PM · #61

Originally posted by ralph:

though it is easy to sit in ones comfort zone.. everyone needs to stretch which is why DPC works ,, it makes some (not all) try to reach different goals than the usual ..

True, but it doesn't stretch you very far for very long. It's relatively easy to make a cliched shot in any particular genre. It's tougher to work through the cliches to get to your own ideas on the other side. I'm not sure that one shoot a week on a theme really gets you anywhere, much like playing chopsticks on a piano one week then learning chords on a guitar another, then playing rounds on a recorder the week after, learning to sketch a nude figure the following week or underpainting in oils the next.

I'm not sure you can find a style or personal expression superficially skimming around - you need to go beyond that in a particular direction for a while.

Some people that have a clear style, just keep plugging away at the same images, some fit challenges, some more, some less.

Message edited by author 2007-09-28 21:05:56.

Louis

Nikon D800

09/28/2007 09:20:25 PM · #62

Originally posted by ursula:

This is true. If I were to say, "One of my favourite pictures at DPC is of a woman doing her ironing," it might seem strange to someone who hasn't seen Silverfoxx's "Le RÃªve". Her picture, as ordinary as it might seem, has high emotional and visual appeal, and with a subject as seemingly mundane as ironing, really has a lot to say (to me anyway).

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/28/2007 09:22:47 PM · #63

Originally posted by ursula:

Man, flower shots are a dime a dozen...;)

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

09/28/2007 09:31:44 PM · #64

Hey Kris... Thanks for posting your images, sharing the link to some work that you like and tossing in the great musical reference. I've got a little Linkin Park playing just to set the mood.

To start off, I think it's important to separate subject from style. I think the topic of shooting other subjects has come up several times on the thread, but I honestly believe the subject and style can vary independently. Joe's portfolio is a good example of this, but I'll get to that later.

So after looking at your from the summer work, your adjusted work and Joe'ss work I can see a progression across the three. Joe's work tends to use bold composition to bring strong focus on the subject while filtering out unnecessary detail. Eight of the ten images on his first page are consisten in this area and the other two are close. If I look at your adjusted work you started down a similar path. In the first image you use selective focus to bring attention to one area of the trunk and some fungi. In the second image a smaller area of much lighter tone draws attention to the flower. In the third image you once again use tonality to draw the viewer down the length of the walkway, from dark to light. Of you first series of images, only the second one uses such strong compositional techniques. Your other work five images posted here are well executed photographs... but they are not as artistically strong as the adjusted set that you posted. So my opinion... and it's only an opinion... is that you are looking for a bolder style that is supported by stronger and more refined compositions. You don't need to change subjects to accomplish this, you just need to continue down that path you started with that second series of images. Look for stronger design elements to support your images... line, shape, tonality, etc

As to the Linkin Park analogy, I think it fits. I don't know the musical terms, but the strength of delivery demands attention and there isn't a lot of extra nonsense going on. You just need to scream with your composition as your tool.

I hope that is least the start of what you were looking for when you kicked off this thread.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

09/28/2007 09:42:10 PM · #65

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by ralph:
though it is easy to sit in ones comfort zone.. everyone needs to stretch which is why DPC works ,, it makes some (not all) try to reach different goals than the usual ..

True, but it doesn't stretch you very far for very long. It's relatively easy to make a cliched shot in any particular genre. It's tougher to work through the cliches to get to your own ideas on the other side. I'm not sure that one shoot a week on a theme really gets you anywhere, much like playing chopsticks on a piano one week then learning chords on a guitar another, then playing rounds on a recorder the week after, learning to sketch a nude figure the following week or underpainting in oils the next.

I'm not sure you can find a style or personal expression superficially skimming around - you need to go beyond that in a particular direction for a while.

Some people that have a clear style, just keep plugging away at the same images, some fit challenges, some more, some less.

I agree that working DPC challenges could actually hinder development of a personal style. But, I don't think this is an absolute. If a photographer is bold and uses a challenges to investigate another aspect of their own personal vision, then it could be a good thing. Of course they will have to really believe in their vision before doing this because there is a high likelyhood that their scores will be low and the comments will be completely unrelated to the original intent of the image. I always admire the photographers that post outstanding work while knowing that many of the voters will be looking for something much more typical.

09/28/2007 10:57:34 PM · #66

Thanks David, very insightful ... and very helpful

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

10/01/2007 11:10:31 AM · #67

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Some people that have a clear style, just keep plugging away at the same images, some fit challenges, some more, some less.

If a photographer is bold and uses a challenges to investigate another aspect of their own personal vision, then it could be a good thing.

Yup - I think we are saying much the same thing. Just my feel is that it takes a particularly bold and single minded approach to do what you describe, stick to your vision and ignore the feedback on the contests.

That's why I feel that the weekly new topic/ style with constant, usually negative for those who don't conform, feedback doesn't enhance the development and search for a personal style. Most people want acceptance and someone to say good things. It's almost slightly sociopathic to go in the opposite direction week in, week out :)

10/01/2007 11:20:01 AM · #68

Originally posted by hopper:

OK, again let me preface by saying - I think these are good images, I just don't like them - it's not a style of work that I want to call my own.

This will make you chuckle, I'm sure, but I generally don't like nature/landscape stuff as much as other things, but I was hoping the convenience of being 5 minutes away would keep me looking for stuff I liked enough to put together a body of work. Before deciding I didn't wish to continue, I took in the neighborhood of 300 images.

...

From the entire project, this is the only shot I really like:

[thumb]592821[/thumb]

I'd personally say that's by far the strongest shot too. I can see a couple of ways you could go from here.

One way : go back and shoot another 300 shots. Use what you've learned in this process. You've evolved your approach. You've now shot the cliched views of other people's personal vision and styles that you've seen before. Perhaps you needed to work through those to find out what you yourself like. Maybe you've found that here, now, in that shot above. The lens matters, the subject choice matters, the type of lighting and shadow/ light relationship matters. Don't give up on the process now that you've finally got to the starting point of something you might actually like. I spent a couple of years going back to one wild flower center, once or twice a week. I think it took me about a year to find my own view on the subject, rather than copying things I'd seen before. But I'm slow. It took me a while to work through the cliches.

Another way: you mention you don't like nature/ landscape photography. That isn't a crime. You don't have to do it, if you don't want to. Or you certainly don't have to only do it. There's nothing that says you have to shoot one type of subject and nothing else - but there's an advantage to some degree of focus or work on a particular topic - that's why projects help - but you can have multiple projects at a time. So if it isn't nature/ landscape photography you like - what is it and why aren't you doing it ? Is it purely that you can't find it right where you are, or is there some deeper motivation/ fear that's making it easier to find excuses not to shoot what you like ? You alluded to wanting to shoot city/ street candid work, I think. Do you live in a remote wilderness where there are no people around ? :) Or are you perhaps feeling that the better shots must be somewhere else, rather than being willing to just accept where you are and shoot what's there ?

If you want to shoot different subject matter, is it really unavailable to you, or is something else factoring in ? You described I think your 'ideal' subject matter being 45 minutes away, but settling for this that's 5 minutes away. I think there's a temptation to always think the better opportunities are somewhere else, rather than where you are now. But try shooting them anyway. Give yourself the chance to explore the subject matter you like, where you are. Find that spark that you like and follow it and see where it takes you.

10/01/2007 11:23:54 AM · #69

Originally posted by Gordon:

... the weekly new topic/ style ... doesn't enhance the development and search for a personal style.

I agree with this 100%. Treating the challenges as "just a game" has helped to separate it from anything else. Negative comments no longer bother me, in fact, I usually enjoy the in your face "this photo sucks" kind of comment much more than, "nice".

But for the newbie, this site is where their confidence is made or broken ... and I don't think this site is suited for that, nor should it set out to do that.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

10/01/2007 11:31:28 AM · #70

Originally posted by Gordon:

I think there's a temptation to always think the better opportunities are somewhere else, rather than where you are now.

I always appreciate your thoughts, Gordon, thanks again. I agree with all your thoughts, but the quoted above rings loudly for me. I think we go thru that ... if I lived here, or had that lens, or whatever.

This has been a great thread ... thanks for everyones insight, it's exactly what I was looking for.

ps ... as previously stated, don't necessarily use my future challenge entries as an example of where I'm headed ... sometimes I just want to win a ribbon :)

Louis

Nikon D800

10/01/2007 11:39:49 AM · #71

Originally posted by Gordon:

Give yourself the chance to explore the subject matter you like, where you are. Find that spark that you like and follow it and see where it takes you.

It seems to me that personal style isn't necessarily created when all is said and done, but rather evolved. You pick not only the subjects that interest you, but the equipment and other technology (for example studio lights maybe, or wide-aperture telephoto portrait lenses, or software techniques), and experiment putting your favoured subjects and favoured equipment together. After a while your style evolves.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

10/01/2007 11:50:58 AM · #72

I don't like the use of the word "style" in this context. To me "style" is a superficial attribute of a thing. I prefer thinking in terms of developing/reinforcing a personal "perspective" or "point of view". I also don't think you can equate "subject matter" with "style" at all. It's not right to say my "style" is "landscape photography", that's just wrong.

In my own work I strive for a sense of serenity, and (usually) a sense of openness. I am most concerned with the tangible expression of light.

R.

10/01/2007 11:52:40 AM · #73

Originally posted by hopper:

Originally posted by Gordon:
I think there's a temptation to always think the better opportunities are somewhere else, rather than where you are now.

I always appreciate your thoughts, Gordon, thanks again. I agree with all your thoughts, but the quoted above rings loudly for me. I think we go thru that ... if I lived here, or had that lens, or whatever.

I did a frustrating, interesting exercise a few weeks ago. Went somewhere really pregnant with photographic opportunities. I was ready just to dive in - walk off, start finding great subjects and shoot. Instead though, I started where I was. I walked at most 2 steps in a direction - and took a picture. Only one picture. Than another 2 steps. Always moving forward, big steps, little steps, but never more than two. Then another picture. Didn't change lenses, couldn't go somewhere else to take the picture I wanted - made do with what I had, where I was.

The first few pictures were frustration. I shot my feet. I shot stuff to get it over with. But eventually I slowed down enough to make interesting pictures with where I was, not where I wanted to be. I wouldn't do this every time, but occasionally it can help.

Another time, I defined a 3ft by 3ft box around my feet. I got to pick where that imaginary box would be, then I committed to making 10 pictures I was happy with from that box. I shot lots of pictures. Actually took the time to really think about what I was shooting. About half way through I decided to throw everything away and start over again in a totally different approach. If I'd shot and moved on to find something better, I'd still probably be looking. I spent about an hour in one spot, thinking, looking, composing, working out what I liked about the subject. Most people probably don't like the results of that particular session, but they mean a lot to me.

These exercises are just tricks to make you look at where you are now, but each time I do some of these sorts of exercises, it changes how I see things the next time and the next again time.
[/quote]

Originally posted by hopper:

ps ... as previously stated, don't necessarily use my future challenge entries as an example of where I'm headed ... sometimes I just want to win a ribbon :)

I don't want it to sound like I think there's anything wrong with that :) Though another factor in this is the competitive aspect - your ego gets involved and suddenly it has to be a good picture. You can't afford to risk taking a bad one, so you tend to stick to what you know works. I find most of my growth occurs when I don't care about the results. Once I know I've got the 'picture' I want, I'll experiment, or play or trying breaking some random 'rule' that I always tend to stick with otherwise. Just to see what happens. Shoot into the sun. Move the camera a lot during the shot. Defocus everything. Center the subject. Maybe you'll like the results, maybe you wont. But you just might find the spark of something you like that you'll come back to the next time - that's where style evolves from I think - the mistakes, the things you don't like that lead you to what you do. Like your isolated leaf above.