Studio lighting help - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/26/2007 11:25:08 PM · #1

Hello,

I have been shooting flower arrangements for the wife for a long time, starting out with a white sheet for background and clamp on lights for the lights. With this set up I did ok, but there was allot of work in PS after the shot was taken (making the background pure white and adding a drop shadow). Now I have built a small studio and purchased a couple of nice lights. I really want to streamline my process. I need to have pure white backgrounds, but for the life of me I cannot figure out how to achieve this.

The best results I have so far is when I have one softbox left of the camera and the other direct light pointing directly at the background. But there is still a weird cast, and the shadow appears in an odd location:

I have set my WB in camera.......

Any suggestions? Do I need another light?
Thanks

PhilipDyer

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/26/2007 11:35:04 PM · #2

Another light would definitely help, but you can get pure white backgrounds with two lights. You might consider putting the subject on a translucent cloth sitting on a sheet of glass with one strobe sitting underneath and a bit behind the subject. You can balance the glass between two chairs or something so that the light shines through the glass unobstructed, or you could put the glass on top of a box or wastebasket or some other container that can hold your strobe and support the weight of the glass and the subject. Then place your second strobe anywhere you like to light the subject.

wavelength

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

09/26/2007 11:47:26 PM · #3

Balance the power of the background light without anything in the pic, when everything looks white, add the flowers and and the main light. Adjust for proper exposure.

you'll probably have to use a gobo/flag to keep spill of the backlight off of the vase/flowers as it should be much brighter to keep the background totally white.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/27/2007 12:08:15 AM · #4

Originally posted by wavelength:

Ok I like the idea of metering the background to make it white. but adjusting for proper exposure, you mean add the arrangement and adjust the softbox for balanced light?

Thanks

MikeJ

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

09/27/2007 01:41:14 AM · #5

Another way to get a white background is to light the background from behind. If you are using white seamless paper or white cloth the light behind will turn it into a large softbox. I've actually used my large softbox as the background behind my flowers from time to time as well. But I perfer black as a background for flowers as it let the flowers stand out more than they do on white.

Mike

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/27/2007 02:10:32 AM · #6

Thanks Mike, I also like black backgounds for artistic floral shots:

But for the ecommerce, white is best. I am limited for space so I don't think I would be able to light from behind, but that is a great idea.

back at it tomorrow

Thanks

Ben

Canon EOS-30D

09/27/2007 06:00:40 AM · #7

Just a quick tip for cleaning the backgrounds in photoshop.
If you add a levels adjustment layer, and crank the blacks right the way up (drag left slider to the right almost all the way) that will show any dirt or marks on your background.
Then select your original layer and you can easily see where needs a quick dodge.

Then when you're done just bin the adjustment layer.

judojoe

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

09/27/2007 07:04:12 AM · #8

A very simple solution from a tip from DP was Go to Curves and select the White Point. Click on White and Bob's Your Uncle

09/27/2007 02:19:59 PM · #9

ok I tried metering the backdrop and then adding the main light, but now colors seem soft, what causes that?

It is whiter and easier to balance but the lack of colors is not good:

Thanks

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/27/2007 02:25:48 PM · #10

The easiest, most professional way to get what you want is to light the background and subject independently. make sure the background is getting about 2 stops more light than the subject and it will be completely, blown out white. You can adjust from there.

Lighting them from different sources is the simplest way to get control over the background and foreground lighting - with proper exposure and lighting ratios you can make the same seamless black, grey or white, or any colour you like.

The problem you have with just over exposing the background is that the light on the foreground needs to change to compensate - multiple light sources and enough distance between them make this an easy proposition. (The distance is important, to simplify the need for gobos/flags to block light from the background hitting the subject. With single light sources it is still possible, but more challenging.

Really, for pure, pure white backgrounds you'd ideally have two light sources on the background, from different sides. Though depending on the size of your lights and subject, that's usually overkill, for small product shots.

Message edited by author 2007-09-27 14:29:25.

Carl Zeiss 35mm ZF f/2.0 Distagon T

09/27/2007 03:15:54 PM · #11

ok I think I am goin got pick up another light.....will these work ok for backlighting?

barndoors

Is there something that would work better?

These are the lights I have:

2 of these

Can you think of anything else?

Thanks
Jeff

virtuamike

Nikon D2X

09/27/2007 03:27:41 PM · #12

If you already have 2 lights, then that should be plenty. You're shooting flowers - it's not like you need a lot of coverage to evenly light the background or your subject.

Because you're dealing with glass and an opaque subject though, lighting them together isn't entirely straight forward. For glass on white, keep the edges dark so you get some definition. It's a function of camera distance to subject and subject size in relation to background size (play around with those 3 to get the right angles). For the flowers, light them however you'd like, but flag to keep any distracting direct reflections off the glass.

Suggest this -
//www.amazon.com/gp/product/0240808193

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/27/2007 03:29:34 PM · #13

ditto on the light: science and magic book.

Prof_Fate

09/27/2007 03:32:52 PM · #14

You have nice lights, very powerful.
Do you have a flash meter?

You need 2 softboxes - quick googling got this

You can use one AS the background, especially for small items. You need the box and a RING that goes to your lights - buff sells just the ring and htey likely sell softboxes too. You can do a poorman's softbox by using a cheap white sheet from walmart and hang it from the ceiling, put a light behind it -it's best if you bounce the light off the wall behind all of this and don't let light spill out around the sides if possible.

set this with your meter to F8 at 1/125.

Now take you second light w/ softbox and get it close to you subject - it'll give a softer, more wrap around lighting this way, but you could use a reflector on the 'dark' side to bounce some is as fill if needed, and to offset any shadoes you might get on the table.

set this light to be F4 - you'll have to dial it way down. Point being you want 2 stops between this light (the subject) and the BG. Buy keeping it at F4 the BG will be ever so slightly out of focus so the 'texture' of the sheet won't show. 5.6 an 11 work well too. shutter speed isn't as critical as long as you stay below 1/200, but 1/125 is the standard speed suggested for studio lighting like this.

It can be hard to have one light evenly light up a paper or other BG to hte point of blow out - you get hot spots nearer the light and it grays out as it goes farther away. 5 lights is optimum but 4 work well and you can make do with 3 if you have to.

virtuamike

Nikon D2X

Carl Zeiss 35mm ZF f/2.0 Distagon T

09/27/2007 03:48:12 PM · #15

I don't suggest just buying softboxes and throwing them into the situation thinking that they'll solve everything because they won't. You need to think in terms of where you want to put the light and what type of light you want to put there. How you go about doing that will be a result of knowing what you want out of your light, but you have to understand that first.

Again, we're dealing with relatively small objects here. A diffusion panel as suggested would work fine if you're trying to make your light source bigger.

Carl Zeiss 35mm ZF f/2.0 Distagon T

09/27/2007 04:27:43 PM · #16

I have one large softbox and one large umbrella.

So if I add a thrid light, then the set up would be 2 lights hitting backdrop, one light hitting subject? Softbox is good for subject, what would you suggest for diffusing the 2 backlights? Or do they need to be defused?

I have heard good things about that book, will pick it up.

Thanks

virtuamike

Nikon D2X

09/27/2007 04:41:10 PM · #17

Originally posted by JeffDay:

Unless you're dealing with some mutant big flowers, you should get by fine with 1 light on the background (even with a 9' roll, I can evenly light with 1). Play with positioning. And no, you shouldn't need to diffuse for the background (you shouldn't have any direct reflections to worry about).

Personally I find smaller modifiers work easier for this type of work (unless we're dealing with metal or jewelry). Regardless, a lot of it comes down to positioning with respect to your lights and your camera, so play with it.