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09/18/2007 04:48:32 AM · #1 |
| layers. I just cant seem to warp my head around them. Can anyone tell me any helpful tips, hints etc or point me in the direction of any good tutorials. |
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09/18/2007 04:52:05 AM · #2 |
| there's a few here about layers, and layer masks, etc. |
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09/18/2007 05:39:05 AM · #3 |
| yip had a look at those before but still a bit confused particularly about difference between adjustment layer and duplicate layer and new layer. Also how to manage all the layers ,what do you when you have finished making lots of layers and messing around with them, what is the advantage of layers why should I use them? I dunno all sorts of questions! |
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09/18/2007 06:13:36 AM · #4 |
The best way I can think of explaining it is by comparing it to the real world.
Imagine you took a photo, printed it out, and put it on the table in front of you. Now, you want to make some changes to it, perhaps add a few things, or perhaps remove some things. You also have a pile of transparent sheets that you can sit on top of the photograph. So, each of these transparent sheets can do a different thing. You decide you want the photo to be brighter, so you lay the 'brightness' sheet on top of the photo. You can still see your original photo through the sheet, but now the whole lot looks brighter. You've also got sheets that can make the colours look more saturated or lots of other adjustments like that.
So that's what adjustment layers are. They are invisible layers that you can keep adding on top of your original photo, and each one performs a different adjustment; brightness, saturation, contrast, curves, whatever you want.
Now, say for example you want to add some text onto your photo (or a part of another photo even) - You put a different type of sheet on top of the whole lot and add your text to that sheet. Of course, because you've added it to the top of the pile, if you don't like it you can just remove it or change it without affecting your original photo.
And this is the main advantage to using layers. Your original photo remains untouched at the bottom of the 'pile', so any time you decide you want to make a change to one of the layers, or if you just want to remove it, you just click that layer and make the change. If you work directly on the original photo without using layers, you can make the same type of adjustments, (brightness, saturation etc) *but* it becomes much more difficult to go back and tweak an earlier step.
So start off with adjustment layers since they're the most useful ones for photo editing. And as for managing layers, there's a layers window in photoshop where you can see all the layers; here you can make layers visible or invisible, or duplicate them or delete them. |
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09/18/2007 06:30:30 AM · #5 |
An advantage of a layer is that you can work on the layer without affecting the background. You can then remove the layer and/or decide whether you want to keep the things you've done.
With adjustment layers the advantage is still the same, really. A typical sequence might be to open a file/picture and then adjust first levels, second contrast/brightness, third hue/saturation etc etc. If you were to do these thing directly via the Image > Adjustments menu, then you will have committed yourself to the levels adjustment in the first step as soon as you begin the second. Same for second to third and on and on. With adjustment layers you can go back and fiddle about without having directly altered the basic file as you opened it.
Try a little experiment of opening a picture that might need the three adjustments that I listed up there, then carry out the adjustments in the order in which I've listed them, adjusting each in accordance with what you think is best. Write down the settings you arrive at on each of the different stages. (It's not a recommended sequence or anything, this is just for example).
Then close the picture, or save it or whatever, and open the file again. This time, go through the three steps in reverse order and note which adjustments you make. Compare the two.
If I'm not mistaken, as I often am, then there will be a difference because levels affects contrast and contrast affects (or appears to affect) colour saturation and vice versa. Being able to go back and readjust things is a get out of jail free card. Advantage is too small a word. |
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09/18/2007 06:44:07 AM · #6 |
| I also save a Photoshop version and a jpeg version. That way if I print it up and am not happy with something it is easy to go back and adjust. Or If I work on something and look at it the next day and don't like something I did the night before, I can go back and change it. The jpeg version just makes it easier to identify which photos are which. |
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09/18/2007 06:56:11 AM · #7 |
Ok there are two primary types of layers.
One is an adjustment layer. The other is an image layer.
Think about this like they are layers. It's the most accurate way.
Take your picture and in your mind's eye, print out a big sheet the size of a table from your original JPG.
Glue it to the table.
This is your Background layer.
Now take a big sheet of clear plastic. Print the image on the clear plastic. If the 'opacity' is 100%, you could spill red wine all over the 'table' and put that clear plastic layer on top of it and nobody would know the difference.
This is an Image layer.
Now take a big sheet of clear plastic.
This is an Adjustment layer.
Seems simple enough right? You can change the color of the plastic if you like and the whole image changes.
Take a knife and cut a peice out of one of the sheets of plastic.
That's like a mask.
That's the ultra-simplistic view of layers. Think about it for a bit and try some simple manipulations in your mind's eye.
To understand how they work in Photoshop, you are going to have to turn everything upside down. Sounds scary, but in the scenario above, we were just talking about looking at your computer screen, understanding what the layers are doing in your file.
The trick is though that Photoshop isn't really for this. It's for making pictures. It's like a dark room. When we turn everything upside down, all we are really doing is putting our EYE in the place of the Light-sensitive photo paper. Try this in the old noggin'.
Take that table from before, and cover it with white paper.
Place a large sheet of glass about one inch off of that paper.
Put a really strong light on your ceiling.
First, before thinking about the definition of layers and masks, do these mental exercises.
Cut the figure of a circle out of a peice of black heavy paper and put it on the GLASS. look at the paper. See the circle? Now take it away.
Try it again with a bit of green plastic. See how it's now a greenish circle?
Great.
Now with the sheet of glass in place and a white piece of paper, place the original image layer on the peice of glass. See it shining off that white paper? If it were a dark room, the longer you shone that light, the stronger that image would be.
That's an image layer, same as before. BUT opacity relates in a dark room to the amount of TIME that it's sitting there.
Now, on top of that sheet, you can place another peice of glass.
On that peice of glass, you can put the circle of black paper. That will create a shadow on the layer, which will remove it's effect from the white paper below.
That's a layer mask.
That's about as far as I think I will go with the 'simplistic' examples.
Hopefully it helps you understand what layers and masks are. Adjustment layers aren't a lot different from image layers except they don't have pictures on them.
EDIT: Sorry jhonan, somehow I skipped over reading your explanation. No offense intended! The content was just cut and pasted from something I wrote earlier.
Message edited by author 2007-09-18 06:58:17. |
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09/18/2007 06:59:24 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
EDIT: Sorry jhonan, somehow I skipped over reading your explanation. No offense intended! The content was just cut and pasted from something I wrote earlier. |
No prob! - The 'plastic layers' visualization is pretty useful. |
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09/18/2007 08:45:44 AM · #9 |
| Very helpful. Thanks. I've been trying to begin using layers, but things don't always seem to work. An understanding of the concepts helps. |
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09/18/2007 11:31:51 AM · #10 |
| Layers is where the digital darkroom is at. It's multi-dimensional bit-mapping. Make things appear/disappear that weren't/were there to begin with (image layers)! Control the surface appeal of your comp without altering its pixels in any way (adjustment layers)! It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on! Seriously! |
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09/18/2007 11:55:58 AM · #11 |
| I like this thread. There is a spirit of generosity about it. I doff my cap to the contributors. |
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09/18/2007 03:28:04 PM · #12 |
Wow guys I go to bed and get up in the morning and find this! I'm going to spend today going through and having a good read :)
I took some of my best photos ever the other day which i want to have a go at doing processing with layers hopefully I might get it now! |
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09/18/2007 03:38:10 PM · #13 |
Quick question before I start on school lunch boxes
In tutorials I read sometimes make an adjustment layer sometimes an duplicate layer and sometimes make a new layer, whats the difference and when do you use what? |
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09/18/2007 03:48:56 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by joynim:
Quick question before I start on school lunch boxes
In tutorials I read sometimes make an adjustment layer sometimes an duplicate layer and sometimes make a new layer, whats the difference and when do you use what? |
1. Adjustment layers are used for processes that contain no pixels. They apply "instructions" to whatever is beneath them. Contrast, levels, curves, saturation, and other things are "adjustments", they are ways to tweak some of the parameters of the base image.
You can go to image/adjustments and do this directly on the base image, but then if you want to undo the adjustment you have to go back in history to before you did it. If you have an intervening step, when you go back to before the adjustment, you lose the intervening step. With adjustment layers (layers/adjustment layer) you can, you can change the "layer mode" for different effects, you can toggle the layer visibility on/off, you can adjust its opacity, or you can trash it, at will.
2. A duplicate layer is just that; whichever layer is the active layer, you can overlay a duplicate of it. In CS2, for example, one of the "adjustments" is "shadow/highlight", but there is no corresponding adjustment layer available; so you dupe the base layer, do shadow/highlight on that, and then you can (if you choose) fade the opacity of this layer to mute the effect, or toss the layer altogether later on if you decide you don't need it.
3. "New Layers", by default, contain nothing. They can be very useful. For example, you can choose Layer/new layer, set the layer mode to "overlay" in the dialogue box, check the box for "overlay neutral color" (which is gray), and then paint with black to darken things and with white to lighten things on the underlying, base layer. This is a much more effective way to dodge and burn than using the dodge/burn tool, which is by its nature "destructive", a pixel-altering tool.
This is just scratching the surface, but....
R.
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09/18/2007 03:59:45 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by joynim:
In tutorials I read sometimes make an adjustment layer sometimes an duplicate layer and sometimes make a new layer, whats the difference and when do you use what? |
I would suggest beginning with Adjustment Layers, that way you'll have a grasp on what is allowed in Basic Editing. They're pretty straight forward once you get use to them but powerful enough to dramatically change the way your picture looks. |
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09/18/2007 11:02:31 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by joynim:
Quick question before I start on school lunch boxes
In tutorials I read sometimes make an adjustment layer sometimes an duplicate layer and sometimes make a new layer, whats the difference and when do you use what? |
If I may expand a little on the how versus the what which was already explained...
To make an adjustment layer in Photoshop, go to the menu Layer, New Adjustment layer, then select the TYPE of adjustment you wish to do. Adjustment layers start with their own mask, but don't use it in basic editing rules.
To make a duplicate layer is to copy a layer. (keyboard shortcut Ctrl-J) You can make a duplicate of an adjustment layer, but that isn't usually done. Making a duplicate layer is usually referring to copying an IMAGE layer. To do this, right-click on the layer and select duplicate layer.
To make a new layer, you are starting with a new Image layer, but it's empty. Here you can make your own picture by drawing and such, BUT people don't usually use it like this. We usually use it like Bear says - by changing the layer mode to make it do other things. To create a new layer, go to Layer, New, Layer.(keyboard shortcut Ctrl-Shift-N)
You can also do what Bear explained simply by changing the layer to 'soft light' mode and painting with black and white brushes, so you don't have to fill with grey first. Neither of these techniques are legal in basic. |
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09/18/2007 11:19:40 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
You can also do what Bear explained simply by changing the layer to 'soft light' mode and painting with black and white brushes, so you don't have to fill with grey first. Neither of these techniques are legal in basic. |
Is that so? New one for me. Is there any difference in the results?
R.
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09/19/2007 12:43:22 AM · #18 |
Don't know, try it out. I've not used your method. I picked up that tip from the Radiant Vista video tutorials.
I've used it on 5-10 pics so far and have been fairly pleased with the results. I no longer used dodge/burn except for selections. |
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09/19/2007 04:45:31 AM · #19 |
| Thanks everyone fell like I have abit more of an understanding of layers :) still trying out some of the suggestions |
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09/19/2007 04:56:10 AM · #20 |
I am finishing some paperwork right now, but I plan to get started on building my tutorials companion site this evening. I will link to it through my Profile here.
Bear and others have far more experience than I do, but I keep trying to find the simple ways even still. ;) Soon they will be shared. heh. Hopefully they will be worthwhile. |
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09/19/2007 05:02:49 AM · #21 |
Ok so I tried the soft light thing and painting and all I got was nasty looking streaks! What am I doing wrong? Is it the settings?
( On a side note how do I quote part of a post?) |
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09/19/2007 05:05:10 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
I am finishing some paperwork right now, but I plan to get started on building my tutorials companion site this evening. I will link to it through my Profile here.
Bear and others have far more experience than I do, but I keep trying to find the simple ways even still. ;) Soon they will be shared. heh. Hopefully they will be worthwhile. |
That sounds great look forward to reading those ,glad to hear ypu are going to keep them simple :) |
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09/19/2007 05:39:45 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by joynim:
Ok so I tried the soft light thing and painting and all I got was nasty looking streaks! What am I doing wrong? Is it the settings?
( On a side note how do I quote part of a post?) |
Last things first, to quote a previous image, you can press the "quote" button against the original post that you want to quote. This will bring in the other person's text as a quote. you can edit it to cut out most, and just leave the bit you want to quote. Theoretically, you can edit it, but that's probably not a good idea. People tend to get annoyed if you misquote them. :)
Originally posted by surfdabbler:
Hey, I never said this!! :) |
Send things, if you are getting nasty streaks when using soft light mode, you are probably painting too strongly. Soft light is a dodge/burn operation. To lighten, draw white into the softlight layer, to darken, draw black. I normally use the airbrush tool, quite a large brush (often at least 10% the width of the image), minimum hardness, 3% brush opacity, so you hardly get any paint at all, and then reduce the layer opacity to 50%. Dodging/burning well with airbrushing takes a very light touch. Take your time, and expect to practice quite a bit before you get any good results.
My personal preference is to use seperate layers, one for dodge, and one for burn, but soft-light layers also have their place.
There's many different ways layers can work, so take them one at a time and learn how to use each one before trying to tackle many at once. :)
Message edited by author 2007-09-19 05:40:26. |
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09/19/2007 05:43:48 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by joynim:
Ok so I tried the soft light thing and painting and all I got was nasty looking streaks! What am I doing wrong? Is it the settings?
( On a side note how do I quote part of a post?) |
You need to adjust the opacity of the brushes in the toolbar along the top of your screen. Also, as a rule, choose a soft-edged brush, though sometimes you do want a harder-edged brush. And of course you use this toolbar to adjust the size of the brush as well. Try working with 7-10% opacity and see how that goes for you. Remember you need to "paint" with black and white, which you can get by clicking the little B/W rectangles icon beside the color picker in the toolbox.
Also, I haven't tried that "soft light" version of dodge and burn; try using the "overlay" mode where you click the box to fill the layer with overlay-neutral gray.
To quote part of a post, quote the whole post then highlight and delete the parts you don't want, being sure to leave the open and close quote tags intact.
R.
I see I cross-posted with surf...
Message edited by author 2007-09-19 05:44:17.
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09/19/2007 05:45:53 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by surfdabbler:
My personal preference is to use seperate layers, one for dodge, and one for burn, but soft-light layers also have their place. |
That's what I do also, using the "overlay" mode method; one for dodge, one for burn, stacked above each other. Works great.
R.
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