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08/29/2007 10:58:10 PM · #1 |
Ok, here is the concept. I think most agree that trolls have less effect when more votes are received in total. So to increase the total # of votes received, why not force folks to vote?
Just NOT on the challenges they enter. So, if I was to want to enter the Bokeh challenge for example, I would have to have completed voting on one of the challenges now being voted on, but NOT one I am entered in. Same thing for any other challenges I want to enter. You get to enter a challenge only if you have balanced that by voting in entirety on another challenge now in the voting stage, but not allowing voting on entries you are entered in.
That would get the number of votes up, making trolls less of a problem, and hopefully getting more folks active in voting on the site.
problems? takers? |
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08/29/2007 11:02:35 PM · #2 |
I think the bar should be set at entering 3 challenges before being allowed to vote. That ensures, at a minimum, a two week presence on the site plus some marginl amount of effort.
This prevents many shenanigans. Recently Microsoft was set to lose an ISO vote for one of the 'standards' they are trying to push. The outcome was to be 6 against MS, 5 for. This was known for weeks as open discussions had been all over the net.
The day of voting, 20 MS partners showed up, paid the $2500 voting membership fee and cast their votes accordingly. MS standard ratified.
So the lesson is any system that allows someone to just walk in and start voting is open to being gamed. The easiest thing to do is prevent that from happening. Presumably the more difficult approach is to have to comb through thousands of votes looking for patterns of malicious behavior, readjust scores after the challenges, etc, etc but whatever.
Message edited by author 2007-08-29 23:05:36. |
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08/29/2007 11:11:27 PM · #3 |
more rules? I think we have enough, no?
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08/29/2007 11:11:29 PM · #4 |
| On my site, people can rank the POTD winners. I've altered the voting so that someone who is new to the site has their vote constrained to the average of the veteran voters. Like over 30 days is a veteran, etc. I forget exactly what I did now :) |
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08/29/2007 11:13:34 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Rooster:
more rules? I think we have enough, no? |
No. |
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08/29/2007 11:16:43 PM · #6 |
I still think we should personally visit every members at their homes, have a cup of coffee, chat a little and make sure they are not trolls, and then give them voting privileges. We should bring muffins or bagels for those visits...
...or my other suggestion is that we put more bureaucracy to membership process. Not only paying 25 bucks and start voting, but each member should send their "birth certificate", "passport", and "school diplomas" (at least high school grads) with their copy of "license" and "sample hair" (For DNA testing).
Each member should also wait one year before eligible to vote to any challenge.
Trolls? What trolls?  |
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08/29/2007 11:27:52 PM · #7 |
| I don't like coffee, can we have soda or booze while chatting? |
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08/29/2007 11:28:16 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
I don't like coffee, can we have soda or booze while chatting? |
Whatever! |
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08/30/2007 11:18:44 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
Ok, here is the concept. I think most agree that trolls have less effect when more votes are received in total. So to increase the total # of votes received, why not force folks to vote?
Just NOT on the challenges they enter. So, if I was to want to enter the Bokeh challenge for example, I would have to have completed voting on one of the challenges now being voted on, but NOT one I am entered in. Same thing for any other challenges I want to enter. You get to enter a challenge only if you have balanced that by voting in entirety on another challenge now in the voting stage, but not allowing voting on entries you are entered in.
That would get the number of votes up, making trolls less of a problem, and hopefully getting more folks active in voting on the site.
problems? takers? |
Bassman, I so totally agree with this idea. I've said it a few times in forum discussions. There needs to be a way to stop those who are signing up just to come in here and vote scores down (the trolls).
I EQUALLY agree that we shouldn't be able to vote in challenges in which we are entered. It's far too hard to be "objective" even when we think we are or can be. Whether our photos are doing great, poor or mediocre, there's usually an emotional factor or some type of "bias" that we hold, even if only on a subconscious level. And, then of course, there are those who will go in, angry or extremely excited about their own scores and either trash or lower others' scores. Not that everyone does that....just that it's a "tendency" that we all have as humanbeings. So, to protect ourselves from ourselves *grin*, I think that would be a fair rule.
Nicely said Bassman!
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08/30/2007 11:31:30 AM · #10 |
C..a..n..'t r...e...s...t..r..a..i..n myself...arrrghhh!
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08/30/2007 11:34:07 AM · #11 |
Unfortunately, people enter the challenges that interest them and vote on the challenges that interest them.
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08/30/2007 11:40:04 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
... You get to enter a challenge only if you have balanced that by voting in entirety on another challenge now in the voting stage ...
... hopefully getting more folks active in voting on the site.
problems? takers? |
Wouldn't you rather have people vote at their leisure, when they have time to do so, AND because they want to - instead of having people zipping thru just casting any vote to get thru it so they can enter the challenge they want? |
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08/30/2007 11:43:42 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
Ok, here is the concept. I think most agree that trolls have less effect when more votes are received in total. So to increase the total # of votes received, why not force folks to vote?
Just NOT on the challenges they enter. So, if I was to want to enter the Bokeh challenge for example, I would have to have completed voting on one of the challenges now being voted on, but NOT one I am entered in. Same thing for any other challenges I want to enter. You get to enter a challenge only if you have balanced that by voting in entirety on another challenge now in the voting stage, but not allowing voting on entries you are entered in.
That would get the number of votes up, making trolls less of a problem, and hopefully getting more folks active in voting on the site.
problems? takers? |
You want to improve the quality of votes by forcing people to throw out a load of random votes before they can do anything ?
Votes/ comments etc are something that people give to you as a gift (they've spent their time on your image, when it could equally well be spent doing something more fun instead) I don't get why people want to make it even more of a PITA to vote/ take part all of the time - and in search of the goal of increasing participation, too ?
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08/30/2007 11:44:40 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
C..a..n..'t r...e...s...t..r..a..i..n myself...arrrghhh!
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Maybe as well as YAPPIE and OOBBIE awards, Nick could start awarding FLOGGERS ?
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08/30/2007 11:47:43 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by doctornick:
C..a..n..'t r...e...s...t..r..a..i..n myself...arrrghhh!
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Maybe as well as YAPPIE and OOBBIE awards, Nick could start awarding FLOGGERS ? |
The FLOGGER would be assigned to the topic, right? Maybe the floggers could be listed on the left side of the home page for easy reference to previous threads.
;o) |
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08/30/2007 11:50:02 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
I don't like coffee, can we have soda or booze while chatting? |
Sounds like you need to go to the annual European workshop ;)
Which, strangely (or maybe not so strangely), is being held in Calgary next year. |
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08/30/2007 11:51:19 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by doctornick:
C..a..n..'t r...e...s...t..r..a..i..n myself...arrrghhh!
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Maybe as well as YAPPIE and OOBBIE awards, Nick could start awarding FLOGGERS ? |
:D
My 5 yr-old son noticed this yesterday (beating a dead horse gif) while I had a forum thread open on the PC. Have you ever tried explaining that concept to a 5 yr-old? :P 30 minutes later I heard him ask his mother, "Mom, what does beating a dead horse mean?" Guess you had to be there, but it was pretty funny watching him trying to sort it out.
Oh, and back on topic - I'm not in favor of this "suggestion" of forced voting either. |
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08/30/2007 12:25:08 PM · #18 |
| "The first recorded use of the expression with its modern meaning is by British politician and orator John Bright, referring to the Reform Bill of 1867, which called for more democratic representation in Parliament, and which Parliament was singularly apathetic about. Trying to rouse Parliament from its apathy on the issue, he said in a speech, would be like trying to flog a dead horse to make it pull a load. The Oxford English Dictionary cites the Globe, 1872, as the earliest verifiable use of flogging a dead horse." |
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08/30/2007 12:37:20 PM · #19 |
So it appears yet again that there are some of us that make suggestions to try and improve the site, who are then attacked and ridiculed by the same people that always do the attacking around here. (who incidently also like to complain about the status quo.)
I fully admit that I do complain about the status quo, which is why I also tried to offer suggestions for improvement.
I have learned my lesson Gordon, I will never make a suggestion for improving this place ever again. Sorry for offending you with my free thinking.
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08/30/2007 12:44:40 PM · #20 |
| Didn't Gordon express his freedom to think by expressing why he thought forcing people to vote wouldn't work? |
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08/30/2007 12:49:38 PM · #21 |
Simply shooting down every suggestion made by others is certainly not free thinking. It is a sign of closed minded thinking, or possibly no thinking at all.
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08/30/2007 12:54:16 PM · #22 |
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Message edited by author 2007-08-30 13:14:11. |
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08/30/2007 01:03:53 PM · #23 |
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Message edited by author 2007-08-30 13:14:28. |
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08/30/2007 01:18:43 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
Sorry for offending you with my free thinking. |
I remain convinced that Gordon has no problems whatsoever with your free thinking... but rather probably shares my concerns relative to the logic of what it is you are proferring.
Suggestions are fine, but one must be prepared to accept diverging views and discuss the merits of the proposals made. The mere fact that you made a suggestion can not and should not pre-suppose immediate acceptance by the masses, as there are countless ways to view proposals and implement changes.
Free thinkers must realize that changes should not occur simply for the sake of change and that proposals for change cannot operate in a vacuum.
I for one have not read any comments that could be remotely be considered as falling into the realm of "ridicule or attack" on you or like minded individuals. You have a proposal... fine let's discuss it... there truly is no need for you to cast aspersions on those that might disagree with you.
Ray |
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08/30/2007 02:33:01 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
I think the bar should be set at entering 3 challenges before being allowed to vote. That ensures, at a minimum, a two week presence on the site plus some marginl amount of effort.
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I like this idea better than the OP's but this leaves those who just vote out in the cold. Seems I hear we have quite a few of these. I wonder if SC could comment on how many active voters we have who don't enter? I hate to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I used to be a troll worrier, but have finally figured out they have no affect on the voting. So to the OP, just forget'em.
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