I'll NEVER work with IN-LAWs again......EVER!

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/16/2007 11:44:08 AM · #1

Sorry but I just have to get this off my chest...

So about a year ago I do a photo shoot with my sister in law and some of her friends. They are all in beauty school and so I figure it'll be fun and at the time I really wanted to start gaining some portraiture experience so I sign on and we decide that we want this to be a 40's - 50's themed shoot. While nailing down all the details I tell my sister IN law that I would not charge a sitting fee for ANY OF THE GIRLS all I would ask is that they pay me for prints AT MY DPCPRINTS COST. She agrees after seeing what the prices are and we're ready to go.

The shoot goes well, I shoot about three hundred plus shots and everyone is happy. I get home and start the WEEK long process of sorting, post processing and upload the finished work to my website. I get everyone my contact information on how to view and order any or all of the prints. Keep in mind that we've agreed I will only charge them my cost for prints.

Here's where the fun begins.

While on a business trip, my wife gets an email from her sister explaining that she (my sister in law) and her mother (my mother in law) feel that my prices are "too high for an AMATEUR photographer, and they think I should just give them ALL of the shots so they can take them somewhere else to get printed." I call my sister in law and politely explain to here that we had an agreement BEFORE the shoot that everyone agreed to. I told her that if she felt the prices of prints were too high (we're talking about DPCPrints here people) then anyone who wanted a copy of the photo shoot could purchase a DVD of all the pictures for 5 bucks each. Then they could do whatever they wanted with the photos.

Well this still isn't good enough for her, she tells me that most of these girls that were at the shoot are in high school and can't afford to buy a DVD they just want to be able to download the shots from the web and take them somewhere else to get printed. I tell her that if they can't afford a 5 dollar DVD how are they going to afford to get them printed? I tell her that's the best I can do and that I don't feel I'm asking too much. I go on to explain how much work I've done and that asking for them to cough up 5 bucks for a DVD or just pay MY COST for prints isn't asking too much. After this little ditty of a conversation the whole project gets dropped and at this point I figure we're done.

Today my wife gets ANOTHER email from her sister requesting ALL of the photos to be uploaded to the web where they can be "reviewed and downloaded." My wife, being the awesome woman that she is, tells her sister that she needs to take that up with me and forwards on the email to me.

Now please correct me if I'm out of line. I think that I'm being a pretty reasonable guy, so far I've shot the photos, taken a solid week to post process the good shots, upload them to my website for review, and am pretty much taking it in the pants in the means of reimbursement! At this point I'm thinking of just giving her the damn photos and being done with it; but my stubborn Scandinavian blood line tells me to stick to my guns and make her pay the minuscule amount that we originally agreed upon.

Either way; I'll never work with IN-LAWs again!

What are everyone else's thoughts?

Message edited by author 2007-08-16 12:06:56.

bdenny

Sony DSC-H5

08/16/2007 11:50:27 AM · #2

Don't back down...period

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

08/16/2007 11:50:31 AM · #3

Stick to your guns! 5 bucks is absolutely nothing to a high school kid. They get that everyday for lunch money!! And if it were me, they would be getting unedited pictures for that 5 bucks!

bdenny

Sony DSC-H5

08/16/2007 11:52:22 AM · #4

Originally posted by Kelli:

And if it were me, they would be getting unedited pictures for that 5 bucks!

Ouch! That's tough. But she's right :)

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/16/2007 11:54:03 AM · #5

Wow! Some people are just miserable and difficult by nature; and think that they can get everything they want by haranguing and intimidation. I've got some choice words for your sister-in-law that I'll keep to myself.

I think you should do some creative editing...anti-Dove commercial style; and make everyone just a little bit ugly. Then give the photos for free. Tell them if they want some touch-ups you'll be glad to do it for the agreed upon price. I'm sure there are plenty of us who would be glad to help you with the editing workload;)

Seriously, though. I usually say to bend over backwards to please family members, but I guarantee those kids have ipods full of stuff they were happy to buy; and you are doing them a service by helping them understand that when you agree to something you should consider the terms beforehand.

Message edited by author 2007-08-16 11:55:34.

SamDoe1

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

08/16/2007 11:55:08 AM · #6

Originally posted by bdenny:

Originally posted by Kelli:
And if it were me, they would be getting unedited pictures for that 5 bucks!

Ouch! That's tough. But she's right :)

Ditto to both of them. When I was in high school $5 meant nothing. It wasn't even a trip to taco bell. Stick to it, if they want these photos and it seems that they do, they'll pay up.

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

08/16/2007 11:55:20 AM · #7

I think I would give her all of them, and make it quite clear to her, and to every other family member that she is a cheating, conniving, unpleasant (insert own description here) and that you will never do her another favour of any sort......

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

08/16/2007 11:56:26 AM · #8

Originally posted by rox_rox:

I think you should do some creative editing...anti-Dove commercial style; and make everyone just a little bit ugly. Then give the photos for free. Tell them if they want some touch-ups you'll be glad to do it for the agreed upon price.

Love it!

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

08/16/2007 11:56:35 AM · #9

I have a completely different perspective on all of this except I agree with you "never work with in-laws again"...

Look, you entered into this expecting zero profit right? And if you're not making a profit off the DPC prints (which you say you're not) then what do you CARE, man? Just upload the damned images and get these people off your back.

If there's one thing I've learned in life, it is "choose your battles", and there's absolutely NO upside in this making it worth the battling for.

R.

bdenny

Sony DSC-H5

08/16/2007 11:59:02 AM · #10

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

"choose your battles"

But if he let's them pull one over on him now (they did have an agreement), then it'll never stop and they'll just take advantage of him again and again.

benee

Canon EOS-5D

Sigma 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM Autofocus Lens

08/16/2007 11:59:05 AM · #11

this is absolutely ridiculous. And its worth battling over, just as a matter of principle - don't give them anything unless they at least cough up the dough for the $5 DVD.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

08/16/2007 12:00:47 PM · #12

Originally posted by bdenny:

Don't back down...period

Originally posted by Kelli:

Stick to your guns! 5 bucks is absolutely nothing to a high school kid. They get that everyday for lunch money!! And if it were me, they would be getting unedited pictures for that 5 bucks!

Originally posted by rox_rox:

Wow! Some people are just miserable and difficult by nature; and think that they can get everything they want by haranguing and intimidation. I've got some choice words for your sister-in-law that I'll keep to myself.

I think you should do some creative editing...anti Dove commercial style; and make everyone just a little bit ugly. Then give the photos for free. Tell them if they want some touch-ups you'll be glad to do it for the agreed upon price. I'm sure there are plenty of us who would be glad to help you with the editing workload;)

Seriously, though. I usually say to bend over backwards to please family members, but I guarantee those kids have ipods full of stuff they were happy to buy and you are doing them a service by helping them understand that when you agree to something you should consider the terms beforehand.

Thanks guys, the more I think about it the more I want to hold her to the coals on this. It's one thing to be screwed by someone out there in the world but by your own family?

@Roxanne: I like your post ideas. If this goes the way of getting out of hand I just might take you and DPC up on that idea, at least we would all have some fun with it! ;)

taterbug

Nikon D300

08/16/2007 12:00:49 PM · #13

Bear has a good point. However, I can't believe that she said that doing it for 0$, and paying cost for any prints is too high a price for an amateur! I mean, 0...that's too high? What, did she expect you to pay them????
You could tell her, "I'm sorry, my hard drive crashed, and I lost all those files unfortunately. But, I have a year's experience now, and will gladly do a new reshoot, for current market studio prices." :-)

08/16/2007 12:05:18 PM · #14

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Robert,

I do see your point and trust me I've really gone back and forth with just giving up the shots and being done with it. But I have my mother and grandmother to thank for instilling in me that when I agree to something I accept the terms and stick with it.

Thank you for your post and words of advice I really do take them to heart and appreciate your time.

Steve

08/16/2007 12:13:58 PM · #15

When people do this, I'm tempted to say "No problem, I'll work for you for free if you'll do the same for me. What would you charge per hour to do what you do?" (Assuming they actually work)

You should at least give them a spread sheet breaking down your hours and material costs so that they can understand that photography is not magic. My uncle is doing a huge family photo project that I may not have appreciated without the hands-on experience of editing photos myself. People in-general don't realize the amount of time and equipment involved in photography.

08/16/2007 12:21:43 PM · #16

Originally posted by rox_rox:

Good idea, I think I'll work on that today as a matter of fact! :D

Oh the sister in law works, as a hair stylist, who my wife and I have always supported while she was going to school, working at a salon to build up her book of business and now as she's trying to open up her own salon.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/16/2007 12:24:23 PM · #17

Originally posted by naldslc:

Originally posted by rox_rox:
When people do this, I'm tempted to say "No problem, I'll work for you for free if you'll do the same for me. What would you charge per hour to do what you do?" (Assuming they actually work)

You should at least give them a spread sheet breaking down your hours and material costs so that they can understand that photography is not magic. My uncle is doing a huge family photo project that I may not have appreciated without the hands-on experience of editing photos myself. People in-general don't realize the amount of time and equipment involved in photography.

Good idea, I think I'll work on that today as a matter of fact! :D

Oh the sister in law works, as a hair stylist, who my wife and I have always supported while she was going to school, working at a salon to build up her book of business and now as she's trying to open up her own salon.

Easy enough. Show up at the salon and when the cut is done pay with the prints. Get some foil highlights while you're at it:)

Spork99

OM System OM-1

08/16/2007 12:38:37 PM · #18

I say you claim that the HD the image were on crashed and the files are gone forever.

kawesttex

Apple iPhone 11 Pro

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/16/2007 12:50:21 PM · #19

Don't you wish some In-Laws had a 'Ignore' button?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

08/16/2007 12:55:45 PM · #20

Originally posted by kawesttex:

Don't you wish some In-Laws had a 'Ignore' button?

:D That would be nice sometimes.

pcody

Canon PowerShot G6

08/16/2007 01:09:29 PM · #21

All I have to say is sometimes people that aren't completely happy with the results feel justified in not keeping arrangments. I think it's human nature. I'm not implying that the pictures were bad, just that for some reason their expectations were not met. Instead of getting mad, find out what went wrong between the time you arranged the shoot and the time they saw the results. Hard medicine but well worth the effort. Sorry to not be very supportive of the indignation you feel.

08/16/2007 01:34:38 PM · #22

Originally posted by pcody:

No worries, good point and one that I'd already taken into consideration. I've asked them if they were not happy with the results and all I've heard from them is "No we love them!"