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08/04/2007 11:42:23 PM · #26 |
If they let him in, and I dont know if they will or not But if they do, They better let Pete Rose in too.
Originally posted by trevytrev:
I know this is bonds bashing thread and I agree with most people and I can't stand the guy. I will say though that he will be in the hall of fame, even if it comes out that he used steriods(I know it pretty much already has). Why? you ask, because the general consensus is that he started steriods after the Maguire/ Sosa homerun debacle in 98. If you look at his carrer stats before then he was the most dominant all around player in the game. Not just a one show pony like he is now, but a real five tool, bonified great player. He was always in the top of the heap in steals, defense and offense. He is the only man to steal 500 bases and hit 500 homeruns, most, if not all of both of those , before his roid era. He was voted the player of the 90's and that was all before the roids incident. I don't think the sad part of this whole situation is that he is tainting the homerun record, but he tainted his own career. Say what you want about the guy, Jerk, Ass, and cheater, he could, in his day, play baseball like no other in the game at the time. So have fun throwing tomatoes at the guy as he walks into the hall because it's gonna happen. He won't hold that record for too long, A-rod will break the record if he doesn't get hurt. That's all I have flame away on me, Go Cards! |
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08/04/2007 11:50:58 PM · #27 |
Ahh hell its good drama, and its live on tv, I could care less about the controversy..
Every sport has athletes that do something illegal--
I know its not the most logical debating excuse, but oh well, it doesnt affect my or my life, and the intregty of the game has been gone way before the Bonds chase.
I just wanna see him hit, (and catch the ball), lol
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08/05/2007 03:51:46 AM · #28 |
Maybe fans should push for good doping tests for everyone and not just spit on Bonds. There are a lot of top athletes using all kinds of dope. 100m runners, golfers, marathon runners, cyclists, football players.
The Tour de France is too small to be able to cover dope up with power and money and to big to not be noticed as the black sheep in the sporting world.
But there is use in European soccer, Baseball, NFL, Olympic athletics etc etc etc. But there is so much money that nobody in power gives a shit. Bonds is a child of this time. Perform at any cost and you get paid big bucks for it.
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08/05/2007 04:13:52 AM · #29 |
Tainted Glory
I took this in honor of Bonds. I don't like him. If he were at least a nice guy...
This poster made me think of how different these two men were.
It could still use a title but Tainted Glory...or something like that was what I had in mind.
Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you, woo woo woo
What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson
Joltin' Joe has left and gone away
Message edited by author 2007-08-05 04:43:49. |
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08/05/2007 05:49:37 AM · #30 |
[quote=Bugzeye] If they let him in, and I dont know if they will or not But if they do, They better let Pete Rose in too.
I completly agree that they should put Pete in the hall. They have proof that he bet on baseball when he was a manager, but not as a player. Put him in as a player with no mention of his managing days, prevent him from ever participating in a baseball functions, including his acceptance speach. My stance has always been, if they won't let him in b/c he bet, then throw out all his records that they have so prominitly displayed at the hall. How hipocritical is that? Honestly, I belive that they plan on putting Pete in as soon as he is dead. This is baseballs way of preventing him from making any money off the HOF behind his name. |
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08/05/2007 08:09:02 AM · #31 |
Bonds is an amazing player though - no matter how you slice it. Steroids can only take a player so far.
Has Bonds it ever actually been proven that Bonds was juicin or was it all speculation and heresay.
I could take steroids for years and still not be able to hit a baseball 400+ feet. Figure if he did, during those times, he was only adding like an extra 10 feet to the ball. Steroids will make you stronger of course, but it still comes down to knowing the game. Muscles dont make a curve ball easier to hit, or a 95mph fast ball any slower.
Yeah it sucks that he is getting such a bad rap, but I dont think he cares.
Bonds has always been portrayed poorly in the media, you will NEVER hear his side of the story, because he will never sit and talk to a reporter. This is all because of how the media portrayed Bonds' father as a horrible man, drug addict, etc, so Bonds has never been a fan of the media, which is the reason that he gets the label "pompous" and "selfish".
AROD will have some skeletons popping out of his closet soon (according to Canseco) and I wonder if that will taint the rest of his career. THe answer to that is no, he is a likeable player, he is respected by the media, etc.
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08/05/2007 08:44:11 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Bonds is an amazing player though - no matter how you slice it. Steroids can only take a player so far.
Has Bonds it ever actually been proven that Bonds was juicin or was it all speculation and heresay.
I could take steroids for years and still not be able to hit a baseball 400+ feet. Figure if he did, during those times, he was only adding like an extra 10 feet to the ball. Steroids will make you stronger of course, but it still comes down to knowing the game. Muscles dont make a curve ball easier to hit, or a 95mph fast ball any slower.
Yeah it sucks that he is getting such a bad rap, but I dont think he cares.
Bonds has always been portrayed poorly in the media, you will NEVER hear his side of the story, because he will never sit and talk to a reporter. This is all because of how the media portrayed Bonds' father as a horrible man, drug addict, etc, so Bonds has never been a fan of the media, which is the reason that he gets the label "pompous" and "selfish".
AROD will have some skeletons popping out of his closet soon (according to Canseco) and I wonder if that will taint the rest of his career. THe answer to that is no, he is a likeable player, he is respected by the media, etc. |
I couldn't agree with you more! I have been around baseball all my life and one thing is sure....you can't fake talent. |
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08/05/2007 10:05:43 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Figure if he did, during those times, he was only adding like an extra 10 feet to the ball. Steroids will make you stronger of course, but it still comes down to knowing the game. Muscles dont make a curve ball easier to hit, or a 95mph fast ball any slower.
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10 feet makes a helluva lots of difference, the ball that falls out of boundary could be caught inside. I do not have any idea about baseball and i am no bond fan either but having played cricket a lot (similar in nature to baseball), I can certainly tell you that these extra 10 feet could change the outcome of whole game. |
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08/05/2007 10:12:46 AM · #34 |
I've given up on professional baseball.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game of baseball, I just hate what's happened to the game at the professional level.
Barry Bonds is just the latest symptom. |
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08/05/2007 10:18:21 AM · #35 |
Interesting article I just read:
Barry Bonds, home runs and steroids. They're all in the headlines again.
Weâve debated this topic a lot since last spring â do steroids actually help a baseball player to hit a ball farther?
Now some students from Gustavus Adolphus College in St. Peter, Minn., have crunched the numbers to try to provide some statistical analysis on the matter. Their quick answer to the question is âno.â
Tyler Kramer and Dan Johnson spent their January term analyzing the home run records of all the Major League hitters whoâve had 500 or more homers in their career. They divided those players into two groups: known or suspected steroid users and non-steroid users.
According to the abstract of their research posted in a Gustavus blog: âBased on the data from players that have hit 500 or more career home runs without the assistance of steroids, it is apparent that most major league players peak in their home run production between their sixth and tenth seasons. Players who use (or are accused of using) steroids have a peak much later in their career around their 11th through 17th seasons. Even though they are able to increase the productivity later in their careers there is no statistical evidence that steroid users are able to sustain this level of productivity over an extended period of time.â
In fact, the non-steroid users had a slightly higher home run average than the suspected users. The study found that admitted and presumed steroid users averaged 41.36 homers during their best five years while non-users averaged 43.38 over their best five seasons.
But the study also shows that steroids can provide a short-term burst in home run production. The top six single season home run marks belong to the steroid suspects.
âThe probability of a steroid user breaking the record for most home runs in one year is much greater than a non-user,â the students also contend.
Their findings have earned enough national attention that this month theyâll be presenting their findings at the United States Conference On Teaching Statistics at Ohio State University.
What do you think of their conclusions? Have your thoughts on steroids in baseball changed at all through all this debate? Share your thoughts here with other Science Buzz readers. |
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08/05/2007 11:01:03 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you, woo woo woo
What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson
Joltin' Joe has left and gone away |
According to Marilyn Monroe, Joe could be a jerk too ... |
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08/05/2007 11:57:32 AM · #37 |
Mitch Albom had this column in the Detroit Free Press this morning ... he isn't a Bonds fan!
Free Press Article |
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08/05/2007 12:06:58 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Mitch Albom had this column in the Detroit Free Press this morning ... he isn't a Bonds fan!
Free Press Article |
I'm not an Albom fan, but that's a great article. He said what I thunk. |
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08/05/2007 12:16:09 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
What do you think of their conclusions? Have your thoughts on steroids in baseball changed at all through all this debate? Share your thoughts here with other Science Buzz readers. |
It is all conjecture and means nothing. It needs to be a double blind study with a control group and that is impossible in this instance. So I give no credibility to this at all.
Bonds has been a Prima donna since way back in his college days in Tempe at ASU. The following quote is from this Site
"In attending ASU, Bonds was able to capture star status. As a premier college baseball program, ASU offered him something a minor league team could not. The limelight. In the minor leagues, there are no stars. You work hard and hopefully you get noticed. By going to ASU, Bonds could play for a team that could possibly carry him to the College World Series and national television. Then he could be fawned over.
When Bonds first showed up on the ASU campus, he arrived with much fanfare. He arrived via a limousine to let everyone know that a star had arrived. He did not arrive with the message that he was going to bring a college championship to the campus."
I have heard many more stories about Bonds and his ASU antics. The ASU baseball team he played with hated him.
He is one of the most unlikable players in the game.
Even Bob Costas said he is on the juice.
It will never be "His" record in my eyes. It will have been stolen not earned... |
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08/05/2007 12:19:31 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by strangeghost:
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Mitch Albom had this column in the Detroit Free Press this morning ... he isn't a Bonds fan!
Free Press Article |
I'm not an Albom fan, but that's a great article. He said what I thunk. |
Ditto ... not an Albom fan ... but even more importantly, NOT a Bonds fan! Albom nailed that article ... |
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08/05/2007 12:20:53 PM · #41 |
| Another article I read (espn) said that during the alleged steroid period, that only 82 homeruns could be attributed to steroids. Based on their calculations that it adds an average of 9 feet per hit, so they subtracted 9 feet (and then an additional 9 feet for certainty) from all of his home runs for a certain period of time, and it was found that 82 of them were "falsified". If Bonds was to hit an additional 82 homers, would that make the record his? |
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08/05/2007 12:23:37 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
If Bonds was to hit an additional 82 homers, would that make the record his? |
If Bonds cuts the juice off cold turkey right now and then hits 82 more sure I will let him have it. But that will never happen he needs the juice cuz he is an old man now...
Message edited by author 2007-08-05 12:24:30. |
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08/05/2007 12:26:04 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
If Bonds was to hit an additional 82 homers, would that make the record his? |
If Bonds cuts the juice off cold turkey right now and then hiys 82 more sure I will let him have it. But that will never happen he needs the juice cuz he is an old man now... |
Even if he quit the juice today ... and hit an additonal 82 home runs I wouldn't give him the record ... because a lot of his home runs were hit while he was on it ... making those tainted IMHO ... he'd need to hit them ALL over again to make it semi-ok in my book ... |
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08/05/2007 12:27:56 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
If Bonds was to hit an additional 82 homers, would that make the record his? |
If Bonds cuts the juice off cold turkey right now and then hiys 82 more sure I will let him have it. But that will never happen he needs the juice cuz he is an old man now... |
Even if he quit the juice today ... and hit an additonal 82 home runs I wouldn't give him the record ... because a lot of his home runs were hit while he was on it ... making those tainted IMHO ... he'd need to hit them ALL over again to make it semi-ok in my book ... |
I said that tongue in cheek... :-P
I feel exactly the same as you do about Bonds Pam he will never be the guy. |
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08/05/2007 03:56:09 PM · #45 |
| Do you guys legitimately think hes still on it?! I say no way. No way in hell would he risk it, especially if he is so suspect. Right now you are watching a 43 year old guy in relatively great shape, show off his knowledge and finesse of the game. |
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08/05/2007 04:08:18 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Mitch Albom had this column in the Detroit Free Press this morning ... he isn't a Bonds fan!
Free Press Article |
Read this and then let me know what you think ... no way he's hitting far more home runs on the tail end of his career than when he was in in his youth ... he's old and needs the juice to keep up ... |
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08/06/2007 09:18:49 AM · #47 |
Absolutely he is still using. Baseball's testing policy is a farce and a superstar like him has no problem avoiding tests or being notified in advance of a test etc... Baseball's testing is supposed to be random, but they seem to always pick some middle infielder who isn't a user. They should test everyone, but they don't. Besides that even if he did test positive, what will happen? Nothing. Maybe a couple weeks off, but really nothing serious.
About the 82 HRs being the steroid homers, thats 2 seasons of HRs. W/O those, we are talking about Bonds breaking the record in 2009. That is a very big advantage. Also, steroids have helped a lot more than 82. YOu need to take into account the fact that steroids helps w/ recovery time so he is never injured. Also, if the steroids help his bat speed as well as power, that means he is hitting homeruns on balls he would have normally either missed or missed the sweet spot and flew out/ground out.
I can't think of a worse addition to baseball than Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero, Canseco etc...
Hopefully he will never make the hall. |
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08/06/2007 12:14:43 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
Besides that even if he did test positive, what will happen? Nothing. Maybe a couple weeks off, but really nothing serious.
Hopefully he will never make the hall. |
He'll make the Hall...without question.
I alway's thought Sports Fines were such a freakin joke. Fining these guys $10,000, $8,000....$20,000 whatever, is like fining you or I, $5-10. Litterally, spit in the ocean. They make millions on top of millions and somehow a measly little fine is going to adjust behavior? Yeah, right!
I think the fact that the guy is a notorious prick is what really makes this whole thing run. Nobody seems to like him. The Sportswriters have a profound dislike for the guy. If he were at least a decent person, I think things would be a little different.
These threads always surprise me, seeing how forgiving and accepting people are of seriously bad or underhanded behavior. Really wierd, IMO.
BTW...why would these guys take steriods if they didn't do anything? I ask those who claim or believe their effect or factor is negligable.
Anyone wanna buy a bridge?
Message edited by author 2007-08-06 12:22:26. |
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08/06/2007 12:32:20 PM · #49 |
He really may not make the hall. Inductees are determined by sportswriters and as you said most sportswriters don't care for him and love to write about his speculated steroid use. Also McGwire was on the ballot this year as the first real steroid using homerun king. He got dimal results, something in the tune of 17-25% of votes. Compared to Cal Ripken who is undenieably a stand up guy who got 99%. Granted Bonds will have the HR record when he does finally retire, but I don't think hes a guarantee.
I think if Bonds plays another 2-4 seasons and is on the ballot in another 5-6 years, he may not have the HR record. Alex Rodriguez is on pace to beat him and if he doesn't have the HR record come induction time, I think Bonds will have a more difficult time getting in.
Really, what has he added to baseball to warrant a Hall of Fame induction. He isn't a gentleman on the field or off, players, coaches and sportswriters dislike him, every baseball fan outside of San Fran boos him. If he doesn't hold that record his chances are dratically lowered.
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08/06/2007 12:49:35 PM · #50 |
Really I think the entire argument about the steroids should be put on hold until all the investigations are over with. If he is proven to have taken steroids or any other illegal performance enhancing substances, Bud will have to get some balls, Ban Bonds from Baseball for life and then get out his big eraser and start making some changes in the record book.
Today is our wedding aniversary. So if Bonds hits the *record HR tonight it will be easy trivia for me in years to come.
Some would say I am setting a record on this day as well. But that is off topic.
What time does the game start tonight ? Is ESPN covering it?
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